PASSHE Institutions Merging

[complaint_hopeful]

With covid, its more about school choice. For instance someone may decide to stay close to home, or choose based on available on-line classes, or maybe go with a CC, or maybe they got a good job. There is a percentage of students that decide to bail on college after their gap year. Covid makes things much less predictable. I think the triads will blame the merger, mostly if enrollment is low, but they may be true or not. but there are alot of factors. of course, If they really understood the drop of enrollment, they would have been able to do more to fix it.

And regardless of the enrollment changes, there will be huge cost cutting measures when the merger is official. It is looking more and more like the merger is just a way to give PASSHE leadership a better position when it comes time to cut - here is an interesting article mentioned on local radio today. - https://www.universityworldnews.com/...21082011023382

There has to be huge cuts. This Integration for each triad is going to cost many many millions of dollars. They're using some of the one-time funding and other sources to do it.

Then, what you get rid of 2 Presidents and save $500k? There has to be more cuts than just senior management.

The reason you share classes is so you need less professors. And I think this is just a Phase 1. They'll be sharing classes at the PASSHE level at some point for every or most schools is what I predict.

In the article, it's interesting that they pointed out that this plan seems focused on cutting and not strategic investment. And they pointed out how some other systems spend money on tools that enabled better retention. 100% agree that's needed. They think they're going to grow, but they need investment to grow. They need to change how they do things.

[Fightingscot82]

I don't know. Look at Penn State and their main campus is booming and some of the smaller campuses aren't. But overall they come out ahead.

Maybe PASSHE needs looked at this way?

Penn State branches are struggling too. Behrend is their Slip & Harrisburg is their West Chester. One has all the it factor and the other has had explosive growth. But system-wide, the PSU Outlet Store campuses are down almost as much as PASSHE. They're mostly fighting for the same students but have a) some geographical advantage, and b) the mystique of the brand name degree.

Penn State has realized that they have 2-3 attractive branches but budget-wise know that its easier to recruit more students to University Park than to find more students for their branches.

[Fightingscot82]

That's a possibility. Ie This is Phase 1.

There's other infrastructure being put in place that's going to let all schools share classes easier. Ie Some of what the triads are doing on a passhe wide scale. <-- This makes a lot of sense to me.

So whether it's 3 schools...or just an entire system that shares and reduces the amount of employees needed...something more is likely coming.

As far as leader of the hub...West Chester makes sense. Not sure IUP does any more. Slippery Rock seems to be the it school. IUP has enrollment struggles like most.

IUP could be standalone because in theory its a research & grad intensive university. West Chester has size but also has quite a few grad programs. Slippery Rock is nailing so many aspects of recruitment & experience. I've been told that's the difference. From early interest to graduation students want to be there. If anything, that qualifies them to be the school whose management is assigned to fix the struggling schools, not be the hub campus.

[Fightingscot82]

The interesting thing about covid is that last year enrollment was bad because students were taking a gap year and there wasn't much in person education. Well, shouldn't those gap year kids come back this year and boost enrollment? Also, shouldn't being back in person boost enrollment?

Well enrollment is likely to be down to way down on most campuses supposedly. And yes...I'm sure covid will be used as a main excuse.

It will be interesting to see how enrollment of the triads stacks up to the other PASSHE Schools. Students going to them are essentially going to a college that they don't even know what the name will be and a lot of details. A leap of faith so to speak in some ways.

For me, it's hard to blame covid for enrollment losses for the reasons above. Also, some of these schools have been losing enrollment year over year for nearly a decade. They weren't suddenly going to gain in the past year if not for covid. They're selling a product that's priced too high in the consumers mind for the level of value received. So consumers go elsewhere. And yeah...maybe that's only 6% of consumers a year, but it adds up.

I'm starting to think that the "covid gap year" trend was a myth. A handful of cases that got high profile coverage from major news sources. Just like neighborhood pod schools/classrooms. Nobody did that sh*t.

[ironmaniup]

The interesting thing about covid is that last year enrollment was bad because students were taking a gap year and there wasn't much in person education. Well, shouldn't those gap year kids come back this year and boost enrollment? Also, shouldn't being back in person boost enrollment?

Well enrollment is likely to be down to way down on most campuses supposedly. And yes...I'm sure covid will be used as a main excuse.
.
It will be interesting to see how enrollment of the triads stacks up to the other PASSHE Schools. Students going to them are essentially going to a college that they don't even know what the name will be and a lot of details. A leap of faith so to speak in some ways.

For me, it's hard to blame covid for enrollment losses for the reasons above. Also, some of these schools have been losing enrollment year over year for nearly a decade. They weren't suddenly going to gain in the past year if not for covid. They're selling a product that's priced too high in the consumers mind for the level of value received. So consumers go elsewhere. And yeah...maybe that's only 6% of consumers a year, but it adds up.

With covid, its more about school choice. For instance someone may decide to stay close to home, or choose based on available on-line classes, or maybe go with a CC, or maybe they got a good job. There is a percentage of students that decide to bail on college after their gap year. Covid makes things much less predictable. I think the triads will blame the merger, mostly if enrollment is low, but they may be true or not. but there are alot of factors. of course, If they really understood the drop of enrollment, they would have been able to do more to fix it.

And regardless of the enrollment changes, there will be huge cost cutting measures when the merger is official. It is looking more and more like the merger is just a way to give PASSHE leadership a better position when it comes time to cut - here is an interesting article mentioned on local radio today. - https://www.universityworldnews.com/...21082011023382

[complaint_hopeful]

The interesting thing about covid is that last year enrollment was bad because students were taking a gap year and there wasn't much in person education. Well, shouldn't those gap year kids come back this year and boost enrollment? Also, shouldn't being back in person boost enrollment?

Well enrollment is likely to be down to way down on most campuses supposedly. And yes...I'm sure covid will be used as a main excuse.

It will be interesting to see how enrollment of the triads stacks up to the other PASSHE Schools. Students going to them are essentially going to a college that they don't even know what the name will be and a lot of details. A leap of faith so to speak in some ways.

For me, it's hard to blame covid for enrollment losses for the reasons above. Also, some of these schools have been losing enrollment year over year for nearly a decade. They weren't suddenly going to gain in the past year if not for covid. They're selling a product that's priced too high in the consumers mind for the level of value received. So consumers go elsewhere. And yeah...maybe that's only 6% of consumers a year, but it adds up.

[ironmaniup]

I just wonder if going through this consolidation process and the bad pr killed passhe. We'll see upcoming enrollment numbers I guess.

[complaint_hopeful]

In the long run, the hub concept is the only resolution that makes sense.

I just wonder if going through this consolidation process and the bad pr killed passhe. We'll see upcoming enrollment numbers I guess.

[complaint_hopeful]

Subsidizing and/or carrying other schools/teams in financial duress is what got the USFL in trouble. LOL . Let's be honest , this is and should be about survival of the fittest. Unfortunately. There's been huge fiscal mismanagement. I think Bloom, Kutz, ESU, WCU, Ship, Cal, Rock, IUP, Shepherd , Ville, should be the PSAC. Seton Hill, Gannon, and Mercyhurst have offered minimal in football. Just my thoughts. It's always been crazy to have 3 Erie Schools in the PSAC. And, it has hurt Edinboro. I'd rather the 10 team PSAC with stronger teams and depth that a MEGA conference just to say we have one.

I don't know. Look at Penn State and their main campus is booming and some of the smaller campuses aren't. But overall they come out ahead.

Maybe PASSHE needs looked at this way?

[complaint_hopeful]

I am increasingly beginning to think that this was a baby step toward consolidation into two or three "directional" universities. It could either leave the "untouchables" of IUP & West Chester freestanding or make them the hubs. I think the way to go is three directionals: east, central, and west. Hard part is finding a hub campus for central. Bloomsburg doesn't really fit that bill well (and no offense to them at all) any more than any other school.

That's a possibility. Ie This is Phase 1.

There's other infrastructure being put in place that's going to let all schools share classes easier. Ie Some of what the triads are doing on a passhe wide scale. <-- This makes a lot of sense to me.

So whether it's 3 schools...or just an entire system that shares and reduces the amount of employees needed...something more is likely coming.

As far as leader of the hub...West Chester makes sense. Not sure IUP does any more. Slippery Rock seems to be the it school. IUP has enrollment struggles like most.

[GregD]

I am increasingly beginning to think that this was a baby step toward consolidation into two or three "directional" universities. It could either leave the "untouchables" of IUP & West Chester freestanding or make them the hubs. I think the way to go is three directionals: east, central, and west. Hard part is finding a hub campus for central. Bloomsburg doesn't really fit that bill well (and no offense to them at all) any more than any other school.

In the long run, the hub concept is the only resolution that makes sense.

[Cavalier 1]

https://www.universityworldnews.com/...21082011023382

Subsidizing and/or carrying other schools/teams in financial duress is what got the USFL in trouble. LOL . Let's be honest , this is and should be about survival of the fittest. Unfortunately. There's been huge fiscal mismanagement. I think Bloom, Kutz, ESU, WCU, Ship, Cal, Rock, IUP, Shepherd , Ville, should be the PSAC. Seton Hill, Gannon, and Mercyhurst have offered minimal in football. Just my thoughts. It's always been crazy to have 3 Erie Schools in the PSAC. And, it has hurt Edinboro. I'd rather the 10 team PSAC with stronger teams and depth that a MEGA conference just to say we have one.

[Fightingscot82]

Yep. So why do Triads? Why not view PASSHE as 1 entity if its 1 bank account anyways?

I am increasingly beginning to think that this was a baby step toward consolidation into two or three "directional" universities. It could either leave the "untouchables" of IUP & West Chester freestanding or make them the hubs. I think the way to go is three directionals: east, central, and west. Hard part is finding a hub campus for central. Bloomsburg doesn't really fit that bill well (and no offense to them at all) any more than any other school.

[complaint_hopeful]

Yep. So why do Triads? Why not view PASSHE as 1 entity if its 1 bank account anyways?

[iupgroundhog]

https://www.universityworldnews.com/...21082011023382

That is maybe the most disingenuous part of Greenstein's blather. It's a massive rip-off for Lock Haven. According to Greenstein even though these accounts were maintained separately by institution, technically and legally it's all one account so it doesn't belong to LH even if it exists because of their fiscal management. That's an unbelievable scam.

I credit the publication and author for writing about this but it is also stuff pretty much covered in this thread. They are a little bit removed from our reality. For example, they think the former Hammermill plant in Lock Haven made hammers.