PASSHE Institutions Merging

[iupgroundhog]

But nearly all literature on Generation Z says they don't care about facilities.

Maybe but I think the distinction here is the functionality of the building. It's not just glitziness. I guess, in time, we'll find out.

Plus, if the result is more students in more technical disciplines that will help the school in the rankings by attracting better academically performing students.

[Fightingscot82]

I thought IUP was broke. Seems like they have been taking in some serious cash. It makes my $250 donation this year for Foosball feel so sad. LOL!

They're almost broke. I'd like to see their total debt and total reserves (cash on hand). Most of those gifts were for very specific purposes that while great don't change IUP's enrollment/financial challenge. New programs eventually cost more than the endowment returns or don't cover either the operational costs or consider the staffing necessary. A big, new building still costs a lot to operate. You also need to employ staff to keep it clean.

[Fightingscot82]

You might want to check the details of the donation. BTW the state required IUP to provide about 10% of the cost of the building, which IUP did with donations instead of other sources which is uncommon for PASSHE. But a significant number of alumni made big donations, and alot of the 23 million is going to scholarships, internships, science equipment, etc. Will it make a difference in enrollment ? couldnt' hurt. People from Other PASSHE schools have told me that they saw jumps in enrollment when they added new facilities, at least for a few years. https://www.post-gazette.com/news/ed...s/201804140078

Still doesn't cut the cost of attendance. Very rarely does an incoming freshman get to see the hard science labs during the admissions process. They might walk through the building. But they're not choosing IUP over Duquesne because of a building or science equipment. A lot of other schools have redone their science buildings without success.

The only thing reversing IUP's significant enrollment losses is a glaring gap in cost vs competition. IUP has great academics (and some great facilities) but a below average reputation. A dozen $1 million alumni gifts doesn't change that. A $5,000 a year gap between IUP and Penn State Behrend or a $7,500 a year gap between IUP and Pitt changes that.

[Fightingscot82]

I disagree. I think it will. It is a superior facility and they are going to push it. If you look at the academic program changes that are being made there is a concerted effort to focus on STEM . The word will get out. It's like the KCAC of science buildings.

For IUP's sake I hope I'm wrong. IUP still isn't seen as the quality school that it is and absolutely not at the value it is.

But nearly all literature on Generation Z says they don't care about facilities. They care about cost. They were kids during the mortgage crisis and great recession. Millennials were willing to pay more to get more. Gen Z questions why something costs as much as it does if they don't understand the value. It's a big reason why everyone's new expensive dorms didn't work.

IUP has to cut the price to students. Otherwise I believe enrollment continues to plummet. I don't see IUP capitalizing on what's going on with the mergers. That's not a criticism. I think the only thing that saves PASSHE beyond the "it schools" (SRU & WCU) is figuring out how to grow the price gap between PASSHE & everyone else. Millersville has reduced its largest mandatory fee by 27% and reduced housing fee by 8%. They also tried bringing food service back in house to control costs but it proved unsuccessful.

[IUPNation]

You might want to check the details of the donation. BTW the state required IUP to provide about 10% of the cost of the building, which IUP did with donations instead of other sources which is uncommon for PASSHE. But a significant number of alumni made big donations, and alot of the 23 million is going to scholarships, internships, science equipment, etc. Will it make a difference in enrollment ? couldnt' hurt. People from Other PASSHE schools have told me that they saw jumps in enrollment when they added new facilities, at least for a few years. https://www.post-gazette.com/news/ed...s/201804140078

I thought IUP was broke. Seems like they have been taking in some serious cash. It makes my $250 donation this year for Foosball feel so sad. LOL!

[ironmaniup]

I hate to break it to you but that shiny science building won't make a difference if IUP can't convince students to attend. This generation doesn't care about facilities as much as previous ones. They care about cost and value but mostly cost. If Duquesne with their older science building is within range they'll choose Duquesne almost every time. Sorry to the Kopchicks and IUP folk. That money would have eventually come from the state and the Kopchick money could have provided full scholarships to dozens of students. Free will get more students there than brick.

You might want to check the details of the donation. BTW the state required IUP to provide about 10% of the cost of the building, which IUP did with donations instead of other sources which is uncommon for PASSHE. But a significant number of alumni made big donations, and alot of the 23 million is going to scholarships, internships, science equipment, etc. Will it make a difference in enrollment ? couldnt' hurt. People from Other PASSHE schools have told me that they saw jumps in enrollment when they added new facilities, at least for a few years. https://www.post-gazette.com/news/ed...s/201804140078

[IUPNation]

I disagree. I think it will. It is a superior facility and they are going to push it. If you look at the academic program changes that are being made there is a concerted effort to focus on STEM . The word will get out. It's like the KCAC of science buildings.

I think it will draw better students.

[iupgroundhog]

I hate to break it to you but that shiny science building won't make a difference if IUP can't convince students to attend. This generation doesn't care about facilities as much as previous ones. They care about cost and value but mostly cost. If Duquesne with their older science building is within range they'll choose Duquesne almost every time. Sorry to the Kopchicks and IUP folk. That money would have eventually come from the state and the Kopchick money could have provided full scholarships to dozens of students. Free will get more students there than brick.

I disagree. I think it will. It is a superior facility and they are going to push it. If you look at the academic program changes that are being made there is a concerted effort to focus on STEM . The word will get out. It's like the KCAC of science buildings.

[IUPNation]

I hate to break it to you but that shiny science building won't make a difference if IUP can't convince students to attend. This generation doesn't care about facilities as much as previous ones. They care about cost and value but mostly cost. If Duquesne with their older science building is within range they'll choose Duquesne almost every time. Sorry to the Kopchicks and IUP folk. That money would have eventually come from the state and the Kopchick money could have provided full scholarships to dozens of students. Free will get more students there than brick.

Sure go to the cheaper school, just hope employers view it in the same manner.

[Fightingscot82]

There has also been a huge rearrangement - 1 less college, departments shuffled around and merged, and a few other things. For now the enrollment bleeding is stopped, with a decent size incoming class registered. Interestingly, retention was better last year than it has been for a while - but its hard to judge with all of the on-line courses. The interesting question is whether it will hold up with the fewer support people, and a full campus in fall. There's a plan, its not made everyone happy, There is alot to criticize about it, but there are good things going on. Kopchick Hall for instance - https://www.iup.edu/news-item.aspx?id=294520

I hate to break it to you but that shiny science building won't make a difference if IUP can't convince students to attend. This generation doesn't care about facilities as much as previous ones. They care about cost and value but mostly cost. If Duquesne with their older science building is within range they'll choose Duquesne almost every time. Sorry to the Kopchicks and IUP folk. That money would have eventually come from the state and the Kopchick money could have provided full scholarships to dozens of students. Free will get more students there than brick.

[ironmaniup]

However, that's just the survivalist approach. We want IUP to flourish.Kopchick hall for instance

As a result of Trump policies, grad enrollment may have been affected. But IUP has been sustained by graduate enrollment for the past decade, The discussion is mainly about undergrad enrollment and recruitment. When I attended IUP in the late 70's and early 80's IUP's enrollment was 12, 500. And it was capped at 12, 500. The acceptance rate was good and that constantly pushed the average scores of incoming students up. Not only was IUP by far the biggest of the schools it was also the most competitive by a lot. Plus, at that time IUP had a grad school but it wasn't as big in relative terms as it is today.

Today, IUP enrollment is hovering around 75-80% of what it was when PASSHE came into existence. Meanwhile, the rest of the schools are bigger than they were then even after counting the enrollment declines.

Rather than focusing on mere survival, the state should look at IUP as a resource to be developed. That's actually in everybody's interest.

There has also been a huge rearrangement - 1 less college, departments shuffled around and merged, and a few other things. For now the enrollment bleeding is stopped, with a decent size incoming class registered. Interestingly, retention was better last year than it has been for a while - but its hard to judge with all of the on-line courses. The interesting question is whether it will hold up with the fewer support people, and a full campus in fall. There's a plan, its not made everyone happy, There is alot to criticize about it, but there are good things going on. Kopchick Hall for instance - https://www.iup.edu/news-item.aspx?id=294520

[complaint_hopeful]

For anyone who thinks this won't be approved...from the PA budget:

'This budget also provides $50 million in ARP funding for the Pennsylvania State System of Higher Education (PASSHE) to support the redesign and growth of the system to make a college education more affordable and accessible for students. The investment is part of a commitment totaling $200 million over four years for PASSHE.'

https://www.governor.pa.gov/newsroom...state-history/

[complaint_hopeful]

Greenstein and the rest of the crew are clearly mismanaging this entire process. The NCAA question is pure BS. The specifics need to be made public. It is inexcusable.

If the BOG makes the wrong decision and approves this folly of a plan that will not be the end of it. I think the resistence is becoming too great and this is not not going to fly.

I think the BOG will approve it. Agreed that they shouldn't. I just think they don't care about public outcry.

I believe I read that the Cal U Trustees took their concerns to Greenstein and some of the BOG. In the PASSHE response to the reporter, they gave their canned response that the Integration gives the Universities the best chance to survive.

On the NCAA thing...I could see them having questions. It's very unclear how this will work..

As far as the public outcry...I think you'll see them make some cosmetic changes to the plan to make it look like they took the feedback. Ie They'll maybe phase parts of the plan a little longer, etc. Thus might backfire and create more cost and confusion.

The major issues are the plan doesn't save much. Costs a lot to implement. Doesn't save students tuition dollars. There's terrible pr. And many unanswered questions like accreditation and the ncaa.

If this were an airplane being built, an analogy would be that theyre having trouble getting it to even fly 100 feet. But PASSHE is trying to fly over an ocean.

[iupgroundhog]

Well not quite, Of course it depends on how you count. certainly not in terms of new undergrads (precovid anyway), the percentage decreases aren't near as bad. IUP lost alot of potential students in the grad programs that relied on foreign students, in 2016 it became much more difficult to get student visas. Last year IUP went through significant layoffs/early retirements (i.e. right sizing), which is supposed to fix things for the next 5 years anyway, even expecting some more decline in enrollment. Reserves are getting low, and the main problematic debt is from the dorms which are not producing enough revenue. If that is fixed somehow, then IUP is in good shape.

Larger schools are more able to take enrollment loss, also, since you can still have programs. Some of the big programs, like Nursing are down from their peak, but still have plenty of students using the facilities. For a place like Clarion, losses can put you below the minimum number of students needed to pay the fixed costs of expensive programs. Going from 100 students to 70 is much different than going from 30 to 20.

However, that's just the survivalist approach. We want IUP to flourish.

As a result of Trump policies, grad enrollment may have been affected. But IUP has been sustained by graduate enrollment for the past decade, The discussion is mainly about undergrad enrollment and recruitment. When I attended IUP in the late 70's and early 80's IUP's enrollment was 12, 500. And it was capped at 12, 500. The acceptance rate was good and that constantly pushed the average scores of incoming students up. Not only was IUP by far the biggest of the schools it was also the most competitive by a lot. Plus, at that time IUP had a grad school but it wasn't as big in relative terms as it is today.

Today, IUP enrollment is hovering around 75-80% of what it was when PASSHE came into existence. Meanwhile, the rest of the schools are bigger than they were then even after counting the enrollment declines.

Rather than focusing on mere survival, the state should look at IUP as a resource to be developed. That's actually in everybody's interest.

[boatcapt]

Well not quite, Of course it depends on how you count. certainly not in terms of new undergrads (precovid anyway), the percentage decreases aren't near as bad. IUP lost alot of potential students in the grad programs that relied on foreign students, in 2016 it became much more difficult to get student visas. Last year IUP went through significant layoffs/early retirements (i.e. right sizing), which is supposed to fix things for the next 5 years anyway, even expecting some more decline in enrollment. Reserves are getting low, and the main problematic debt is from the dorms which are not producing enough revenue. If that is fixed somehow, then IUP is in good shape.

Larger schools are more able to take enrollment loss, also, since you can still have programs. Some of the big programs, like Nursing are down from their peak, but still have plenty of students using the facilities. For a place like Clarion, losses can put you below the minimum number of students needed to pay the fixed costs of expensive programs. Going from 100 students to 70 is much different than going from 30 to 20.

Large schools do have more cushion when it comes to bleeding enrollment numbers, but that doesn't mean they can ignore the decline. If a bigger school is looking at sustained enrollment decline year after year and leadership either does nothing or what the do has no effect on the decline, that's a problem and indicates a school in trouble.