Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS
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Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
And, when you add it all up, it says we just have too many state schools in PA.
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Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
There's not excess capacity if we recognize that adult learners are a real market and the way of the future. Beyond tech and trades, very few fields have pathways that avoid college credentials. Excess capacity for traditional-aged students who plan to live on on campus.
Student debt is MUCH higher than previous generations but hasn't changed much in the last 10-15 years. Most student loan debt is held by people whose tuition costs crazy sums of money: doctors and lawyers. Less than 5% of all bachelors degree holders have $100k+ in student loans and when you remove those with MD and JD debt, its less than 1%.
The biggest driver of Millennial and Gen Z debt is decreased state funding and construction debt. Boomer managers for years pushed renovations and construction to pad resumes and thinking it would give that school a leg up on its competition. It backfired because all the competition was doing the same thing.
Small sample size but I personally know several kids (friends children) who are attending Duquesne and other similar schools ... with majors like nursing, marketing, etc. Granted, their parents largely look down at us lowly state schools, but the funny thing is the Duquesne nurse and the IUP nurse are going to get the same job and make the same amount of money.
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Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
I agree that now is probably the normal level but the future HS graduation numbers are disturbing.
Not unique to this situation, but folks always want to find the single "reason" for a negative situation when the real answer is often very complex. Is it lack of PA HS graduates? Yes, but it is so much more including higher tuitions, skyrocketting student debt, competition from the trades, competition from discounted private schools, stagnate state budgets, and a realization that you really don't need a bachelors degree to succeed.
At the end of the day, all the reasons manafest in excess capacity.
Student debt is MUCH higher than previous generations but hasn't changed much in the last 10-15 years. Most student loan debt is held by people whose tuition costs crazy sums of money: doctors and lawyers. Less than 5% of all bachelors degree holders have $100k+ in student loans and when you remove those with MD and JD debt, its less than 1%.
The biggest driver of Millennial and Gen Z debt is decreased state funding and construction debt. Boomer managers for years pushed renovations and construction to pad resumes and thinking it would give that school a leg up on its competition. It backfired because all the competition was doing the same thing.
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Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
I agree that now is probably the normal level but the future HS graduation numbers are disturbing.
Not unique to this situation, but folks always want to find the single "reason" for a negative situation when the real answer is often very complex. Is it lack of PA HS graduates? Yes, but it is so much more including higher tuitions, skyrocketting student debt, competition from the trades, competition from discounted private schools, stagnate state budgets, and a realization that you really don't need a bachelors degree to succeed.
At the end of the day, all the reasons manafest in excess capacity.
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Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post
I tend to think the enrollment now is the 'normal' level for PASSHE and that the 2010 level was due to the education bubble.
I am sure that some kids choose to work on gas lines or other areas too. I just don't think it's a main factor. It's demographic, cost, brand, etc.
Not unique to this situation, but folks always want to find the single "reason" for a negative situation when the real answer is often very complex. Is it lack of PA HS graduates? Yes, but it is so much more including higher tuitions, skyrocketting student debt, competition from the trades, competition from discounted private schools, stagnate state budgets, and a realization that you really don't need a bachelors degree to succeed.
At the end of the day, all the reasons manafest in excess capacity.
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Originally posted by ironmaniup View Post
to ease certain people's fears, I guess. My gut feeling is that there are a small but vocal group of Faculty and parents expressing their fear for the upcoming Fall semester, I expect it to change since if the state mandates are over at that point, it will be pointless after the first weekend, and difficult to enforce. I doubt it will have much impact on enrollment one way or another.
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Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
Are they required to wear them in the campus-owned dorms, too?
There won't be a mask seen in town other than those classrooms so what's the freaking point?
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Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View PostI would imagine that indoors on campus would cover housing. Now, in a room yourself...people likely won't wear them.
But yes...anywhere they go won't require masks...except on campus indoors. Seems pointless.
It's time to put the pandemic in the rear view mirror...and not try to cling to it.
I can already see it now at Miller Stadium ... every 6th seat and a mask requirement.
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I would imagine that indoors on campus would cover housing. Now, in a room yourself...people likely won't wear them.
But yes...anywhere they go won't require masks...except on campus indoors. Seems pointless.
It's time to put the pandemic in the rear view mirror...and not try to cling to it.
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Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
Are they required to wear them in the campus-owned dorms, too?
There won't be a mask seen in town other than those classrooms so what's the freaking point?
However, this article's author does have a reputation for unintentionally making a mountain out of a molehill. He's the only full-time higher ed beat reporter on this side of the state. His daughter attends Edinboro. He sometimes has to go finding stories to write and PASSHE can't block him from getting info (the unions blab & 99% of operations are subject to FOIA). Its possible that someone at IUP tipped him off to this issue (when probed IUP says nothing is final) and he ran with it.
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Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post
The being forced to wear masks is the part that might cost students.
I don't get it. So if I'm vaccinated, and the student next to me isnt...why do either of us need masks? I'm protected from them. They're protected from me...but not other unvaccinated people. Same as going to Walmart or any other place.
Now if a bad variant comes out, this might all change.
Are they required to wear them in the campus-owned dorms, too?
There won't be a mask seen in town other than those classrooms so what's the freaking point?
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Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post
What bothers me about the salary...is they are VP positions duplicated at PASSHE who has no students. Then, these people basically get to cherry pick what they work on and let schools make dumb decisions and do their own thing. Then, when the dumb decision is called out...pr says that schools make their own decisions.
Then, why have a VP of <insert name> at PASSHE if the campus VP and President make the decisions?
And ultimately the schools get charged back for these people. If they provided value, it would be a different story.Last edited by Fightingscot82; 06-23-2021, 07:47 AM.
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Originally posted by ironmaniup View Post
The meningitis vaccine requirement is a state law. Covid requirements that are not state law cannot be enforced. They can't even ban carrying guns on campus if you are legally entitled.
At the same time, I'm not sure it will have any real impact on enrollment. Most College age students are not vaccinated, many already had covid, and with the WHO recommending that 18 yr olds not get vaccinated because of an emerging risk of myocarditis, I'm not sure a requirement is something the majority of students and parents would like.
I don't get it. So if I'm vaccinated, and the student next to me isnt...why do either of us need masks? I'm protected from them. They're protected from me...but not other unvaccinated people. Same as going to Walmart or any other place.
Now if a bad variant comes out, this might all change.
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Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View PostI'm not bothered by how much they make. That's in line with what VPs are paid. They also don't get the perks of the president. If you don't pay market salary, you get bad candidates and/or you have frequent turnover.
I agree that there should have been consistent policy across the system. IUP should also have provided more information to justify their decision. The state says they can't mandate immunization. Fine, but say that. If immunization rates of students and the community are lower than anticipated, say that too. Nothing is secret at these schools so they might as well just give all the information up front.
Then, why have a VP of <insert name> at PASSHE if the campus VP and President make the decisions?
And ultimately the schools get charged back for these people. If they provided value, it would be a different story.
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