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  • iupgroundhog
    replied
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

    Dropping football to sprint may not save much. I guess you could cut coaching staff. There's longer travel involved and you basically punt on football alumni fundraising. Both Edinboro and Clarion have strong football alumni groups. Unsure about Cal. I heard from multiple sources that until the integration, the last two Mansfield presidents were researching a return to D2 football as a strategy to grow enrollment. Granted, none were Mansfield sources.
    I posted an article last week that quoted a Mansfield source saying dropping to Sprint saved on 80% of the costs.

    What I have read is that Mansfield's issue with Sprint is due to a lack of competition. Some of the existing programs have shut down. However, if you had Mansfield, LHU, Clarion, and Edinboro with Sprint teams then they can add a couple of non-PSAC teams and I think it would work. I'm speculating but it could be something to look into.

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  • IUPalum
    replied
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

    If football brings in $750k in tuition & fees above expenses, they'd be stupid to cut it. Reducing football roster spots by 33% is kissing 75-100 students goodbye.

    Dropping football to sprint may not save much. I guess you could cut coaching staff. There's longer travel involved and you basically punt on football alumni fundraising. Both Edinboro and Clarion have strong football alumni groups. Unsure about Cal. I heard from multiple sources that until the integration, the last two Mansfield presidents were researching a return to D2 football as a strategy to grow enrollment. Granted, none were Mansfield sources.

    Basketball is an easy target because salary is generally expensive and there's lots of travel for a small roster. But I can't think of one school that has cut basketball. So we'll more likely see coaching staffs and operating expenses reduced to bare bones. Easier to cut $50k by eliminating an assistant coach than finding $50k in operating expenses.
    If they have such strong alumni groups then why aren't they even close to funding the full scholarship amounts?

    Leave a comment:


  • CALUPA69
    replied
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

    I think that's fair if gender equity can be achieved - but then again - when you cut programs you also cut tuition revenue. The reason these schools are merging is because they're losing tuition revenue. If anything, they should consider adding low cost sports that could result in additional tuition. There's even a book about it written by the president at Adrian College in Michigan.
    Here's a suggestion that doesn't involve direct contact, is already highly organized at the HS level and ties in nicely to the STEM curriculum at a number of campuses....
    https://botsiqpa.org/high-school-robotics/

    Leave a comment:


  • Fightingscot82
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    So... the larger the roster is the less likely the sport is to be dropped?

    I'm going to stick with the Title IX implications. By fielding a football team and creating 80 or so "opportunities" for male athletes, how many women's sports have to be fielded to offset FB on gender?
    I think that's fair if gender equity can be achieved - but then again - when you cut programs you also cut tuition revenue. The reason these schools are merging is because they're losing tuition revenue. If anything, they should consider adding low cost sports that could result in additional tuition. There's even a book about it written by the president at Adrian College in Michigan.

    Leave a comment:


  • iupgroundhog
    replied
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

    If football brings in $750k in tuition & fees above expenses, they'd be stupid to cut it.

    Basketball is an easy target because salary is generally expensive and there's lots of travel for a small roster. But I can't think of one school that has cut basketball. So we'll more likely see coaching staffs and operating expenses reduced to bare bones. Easier to cut $50k by eliminating an assistant coach than finding $50k in operating expenses.
    So... the larger the roster is the less likely the sport is to be dropped?

    I'm going to stick with the Title IX implications. By fielding a football team and creating 80 or so "opportunities" for male athletes, how many women's sports have to be fielded to offset FB on gender?

    Leave a comment:


  • Fightingscot82
    replied
    Originally posted by IUPalum View Post
    Blinders still on!!! Perfect!
    If football brings in $750k in tuition & fees above expenses, they'd be stupid to cut it. Reducing football roster spots by 33% is kissing 75-100 students goodbye.

    Dropping football to sprint may not save much. I guess you could cut coaching staff. There's longer travel involved and you basically punt on football alumni fundraising. Both Edinboro and Clarion have strong football alumni groups. Unsure about Cal. I heard from multiple sources that until the integration, the last two Mansfield presidents were researching a return to D2 football as a strategy to grow enrollment. Granted, none were Mansfield sources.

    Basketball is an easy target because salary is generally expensive and there's lots of travel for a small roster. But I can't think of one school that has cut basketball. So we'll more likely see coaching staffs and operating expenses reduced to bare bones. Easier to cut $50k by eliminating an assistant coach than finding $50k in operating expenses.
    Last edited by Fightingscot82; 11-20-2020, 07:32 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • IUPalum
    replied
    Blinders still on!!! Perfect!

    Leave a comment:


  • iupgroundhog
    replied
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    Had a good conversation today with someone who is a senior manager at a PASSHE school. They told me the athletics ROI is the key: expect these schools to kill any sport that doesn't bring in more tuition $ than its operating expenses. Also expect to see coaching staffs get trimmed using a formula using roster spots. Agreed with me that accreditation will require a main campus, people still need to be "in charge" when in person operations resume, and that relying on online instruction for the model is walking away from the high school market.

    This plan could make sense if the entire system was being consolidated into one university each in the east and west. IUP the west hub and West Chester the east hub. But that's not the plan so it doesn't make as much sense without some sort of research or precedent to lead the change.
    However, as described in the PASSHE document, how ROI is measured is a complex issue.

    Title IX is a major issue (as always). Several of these "triad" schools have Title IX issues already. The merger can be a way to remedy that. If they were to adhere to a strict financial ROI model it would definitely discriminate against women's sports.

    It will be interesting to see how they handle the 5 D1 sports involved.

    Leave a comment:


  • ironmaniup
    replied
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    Had a good conversation today with someone who is a senior manager at a PASSHE school. THow they told me the athletics ROI is the key: expect these schools to kill any sport that doesn't bring in more tuition $ than its operating expenses. Also expect to see coaching staffs get trimmed using a formula using roster spots. Agreed with me that accreditation will require a main campus, people still need to be "in charge" when in person operations resume, and that relying on online instruction for the model is walking away from the high school market.

    This plan could make sense if the entire system was being consolidated into one university each in the east and west. IUP the west hub and West Chester the east hub. But that's not the plan so it doesn't make as much sense without some sort of research or precedent to lead the change.
    How they decide to do the ROI is going to be the key, and its really tricky. First, the ROI for students normally depends on which classes they take, I suspect Athletes take a schedule that is more costly than average (more small classes), but I don't know. They do take fewer classes often. So the ROI is tuition - cost to offer specific classes + an administrative fee. Will this be the standard one used for academic departments ? You could argue it should be higher, since there are additional administrators, specifically for athletics, + the admins for academics. It could also be lower. since they may just claim the admin costs are part of the academic end. And then how do you figure the value of athletics for fund raising. Like most cases, they make a gut level decision, and make the numbers come out to support it later.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fightingscot82
    replied
    Originally posted by IUPalum View Post
    Didn't I say the demise of some schools sports programs were going to happen and some didn't want to agree? Some were very agressive to say they talk to people in the know and it wasn't going to happen... WRONG!!!!!!!!!
    I think you'll see minimal cuts because the ROI analyses surprised many who never considered that athlete enrollment is directly tied to their sport. Spending reductions will be on coaching staffs, operational & travel cuts, etc. If a program is cut it won't be due to redundancy.

    Leave a comment:


  • IUPalum
    replied
    Didn't I say the demise of some schools sports programs were going to happen and some didn't want to agree? Some were very agressive to say they talk to people in the know and it wasn't going to happen... WRONG!!!!!!!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    Had a good conversation today with someone who is a senior manager at a PASSHE school. They told me the athletics ROI is the key: expect these schools to kill any sport that doesn't bring in more tuition $ than its operating expenses. Also expect to see coaching staffs get trimmed using a formula using roster spots. Agreed with me that accreditation will require a main campus, people still need to be "in charge" when in person operations resume, and that relying on online instruction for the model is walking away from the high school market.

    This plan could make sense if the entire system was being consolidated into one university each in the east and west. IUP the west hub and West Chester the east hub. But that's not the plan so it doesn't make as much sense without some sort of research or precedent to lead the change.
    That's in line with what some of us have been speculating.

    When you look at tuition equalaing cost of a sport...that's going to be interesting. For instance a football coach that gets paid $125k + say 35k in health insurance and with a staff of 6 coaches, some making 50-60k+benefits...It's going to be tough to prove that breaks even with tuition. Then, cost of travel, Uniforms, etc.

    There's no way a sport line basketball will break even. 12 players on a roster. Coaches making $100k. No way do those 12 players kick in 100k.

    Leave a comment:


  • IUPbigINDIANS
    replied
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    Had a good conversation today with someone who is a senior manager at a PASSHE school. They told me the athletics ROI is the key: expect these schools to kill any sport that doesn't bring in more tuition $ than its operating expenses. Also expect to see coaching staffs get trimmed using a formula using roster spots. Agreed with me that accreditation will require a main campus, people still need to be "in charge" when in person operations resume, and that relying on online instruction for the model is walking away from the high school market.

    This plan could make sense if the entire system was being consolidated into one university each in the east and west. IUP the west hub and West Chester the east hub. But that's not the plan so it doesn't make as much sense without some sort of research or precedent to lead the change.
    Wonder if Tort's and Lutz' phones are ringing off the hook yet with kids trying to transfer to IUP/SRU.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fightingscot82
    replied
    Had a good conversation today with someone who is a senior manager at a PASSHE school. They told me the athletics ROI is the key: expect these schools to kill any sport that doesn't bring in more tuition $ than its operating expenses. Also expect to see coaching staffs get trimmed using a formula using roster spots. Agreed with me that accreditation will require a main campus, people still need to be "in charge" when in person operations resume, and that relying on online instruction for the model is walking away from the high school market.

    This plan could make sense if the entire system was being consolidated into one university each in the east and west. IUP the west hub and West Chester the east hub. But that's not the plan so it doesn't make as much sense without some sort of research or precedent to lead the change.

    Leave a comment:


  • iupgroundhog
    replied
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    The system redesign document regarding athletics.

    https://www.passhe.edu/SystemRedesig...p%20Charge.pdf
    PSAC fans - meet reality. It's happening and it all has the potential to be more contentious than the academic side of things.

    Leave a comment:

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