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  • #91
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
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    Harrisburg is useless. Worst state legislature in America.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

      These are interesting images. Most of the PSU branches are so small they shouldn't be a concern for PASSHE. The old, traditional PSU branches (Behrend, Altoona, Berks) have PASSHE-like experiences. PSU-Harrisburg has grown but there is no PASSHE presence in Hbg. (Ship and Mvile too far away). So, when I look at this I don't see a huge threat for PASSHE coming from PSU branches. The big ones have always been there (I picked between IUP and PSU-Altoona myself and that was XX years ago).

      As for PASSHE schools when so many have had enrollment drops of 25-50% it has to change how everything is run.

      The map is just obscene. PA has to to understand how this affects the future of the state.

      Link below shows party control in Hbg.

      https://ballotpedia.org/Party_contro...ate_government
      Speaking as someone from the Harrisburg area who went to Ship, Ship is not too far from Harrisburg. If you're on the Harrisburg West Shore, it's a 45-minute drive from almost any location. The three counties with by far the most Ship alumni over the years have been Cumberland and Dauphin counties in the Harrisburg area and Franklin County to the south.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Ship69 View Post

        Speaking as someone from the Harrisburg area who went to Ship, Ship is not too far from Harrisburg. If you're on the Harrisburg West Shore, it's a 45-minute drive from almost any location. The three counties with by far the most Ship alumni over the years have been Cumberland and Dauphin counties in the Harrisburg area and Franklin County to the south.
        It might be for some people and it was for you. But the numbers don't bear that out. I'm not saying that students are going to PSU-Capitol Campus rather than Ship. We don't know that. However, in 10 years Ship has lost 30% enrollment and the Capitol Campus has increased by about 65% (I don't think graduate enrollment is included in the graph for PSU branches).

        It went from Capitol enrollment ~2500 and Ship enrollment ~8500 10 years ago to next year probably both schools enrollment will be in the 5000's.

        I've driven from the east to football games at Ship many times so I understand that 45 minutes from the western shore. It seems like 2 and a half hours. I must have driven westward on the turnpike over 100 times and when I leave the western shore I feel like I've dropped off the edge of the earth.

        Let's face it, the population is to the east. PSU being in Swatara Township is much more convenient for commuters in Dauphin, Lebanon, Lancaster and York counties.

        It's like a textbook comparison between Ship and PSU-Capitol. Ship is the old style residential college with all the majors, some valuable and some, let's say, less valuable. In contrast, Capitol is a commuter campus. 85% commute. If you look at their course offerings they are heavy on technology related majors and things that could be considered more practical in terms of employment. PSU-Capitol is in line with all the trends in education. Things the PASSHE does but mostly talks about.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Ship69 View Post

          Speaking as someone from the Harrisburg area who went to Ship, Ship is not too far from Harrisburg. If you're on the Harrisburg West Shore, it's a 45-minute drive from almost any location. The three counties with by far the most Ship alumni over the years have been Cumberland and Dauphin counties in the Harrisburg area and Franklin County to the south.
          I always thought of Ship as a Harrisburg areas school. Millersville is Lancaster and Kutztown is Reading.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by IUPNation View Post

            I always thought of Ship as a Harrisburg areas school. Millersville is Lancaster and Kutztown is Reading.
            Kind of. I think it has greater association with Chambersburg, Gettysburg, and points in between. Carlisle has started to feel like the line of demarcation between Harrisburg metro and the western world of rural PA Amish country. I agree with iupgroundhog, the rural farm town locations of most of our schools and their traditional residential campus designs aren't appealing to a lot of the urban and suburban folks anymore.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

              It might be for some people and it was for you. But the numbers don't bear that out. I'm not saying that students are going to PSU-Capitol Campus rather than Ship. We don't know that. However, in 10 years Ship has lost 30% enrollment and the Capitol Campus has increased by about 65% (I don't think graduate enrollment is included in the graph for PSU branches).

              It went from Capitol enrollment ~2500 and Ship enrollment ~8500 10 years ago to next year probably both schools enrollment will be in the 5000's.

              I've driven from the east to football games at Ship many times so I understand that 45 minutes from the western shore. It seems like 2 and a half hours. I must have driven westward on the turnpike over 100 times and when I leave the western shore I feel like I've dropped off the edge of the earth.

              Let's face it, the population is to the east. PSU being in Swatara Township is much more convenient for commuters in Dauphin, Lebanon, Lancaster and York counties.

              It's like a textbook comparison between Ship and PSU-Capitol. Ship is the old style residential college with all the majors, some valuable and some, let's say, less valuable. In contrast, Capitol is a commuter campus. 85% commute. If you look at their course offerings they are heavy on technology related majors and things that could be considered more practical in terms of employment. PSU-Capitol is in line with all the trends in education. Things the PASSHE does but mostly talks about.
              I think a lot of factors are at work here other than the commuter thing. One particular area that has hurt is the lack of a nursing program at Ship, which steps are being taken to address. We are now up to five engineering majors and are starting to see a return on that, actually some of them from the western part of the state. A new engineering lab is schedule for completion by next September. I'm not sure why the 45 minutes from the western shore seems like two-and-a-half hours to you. It doesn't seem that way at all to me. Hell, I can be to Philadelphia or most of the way to Pittsburgh in two-and-a-half hours. And in fact some of our biggest county growth in recent years has come from Philadelphia and Montgomery counties, which are more convenient to West Chester and Millersville than to Ship. In Lancaster County, PSU is probably hurting Millersville more than Ship. With our addition of several engineering programs, I see little other than the aforementioned nursing that the PSU campus offers that is not offered at Ship, employment-related or otherwise.

              Certainly, the Penn State campuses are a problem for many of the state schools. The biggest problem in Pa. increasingly is too much college capacity for a declining number of college students. By allowing a state-related system to basically expand into the areas of the state-owned system while performing many of the same functions, our legislators have certainly contributed to this. And, of course, Penn State has a bigger name and reputation than the state schools, probably deserved in some areas and not so much in others. Guess we'll see how it all shakes out.



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              • #97
                Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

                Kind of. I think it has greater association with Chambersburg, Gettysburg, and points in between. Carlisle has started to feel like the line of demarcation between Harrisburg metro and the western world of rural PA Amish country. I agree with iupgroundhog, the rural farm town locations of most of our schools and their traditional residential campus designs aren't appealing to a lot of the urban and suburban folks anymore.
                Indiana was a culture shock to me in 1984....

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by IUPNation View Post

                  Indiana was a culture shock to me in 1984....
                  It hasn't changed a whole lot.

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Ship69 View Post

                    I think a lot of factors are at work here other than the commuter thing. One particular area that has hurt is the lack of a nursing program at Ship, which steps are being taken to address. We are now up to five engineering majors and are starting to see a return on that, actually some of them from the western part of the state. A new engineering lab is schedule for completion by next September. I'm not sure why the 45 minutes from the western shore seems like two-and-a-half hours to you. It doesn't seem that way at all to me. Hell, I can be to Philadelphia or most of the way to Pittsburgh in two-and-a-half hours. And in fact some of our biggest county growth in recent years has come from Philadelphia and Montgomery counties, which are more convenient to West Chester and Millersville than to Ship. In Lancaster County, PSU is probably hurting Millersville more than Ship. With our addition of several engineering programs, I see little other than the aforementioned nursing that the PSU campus offers that is not offered at Ship, employment-related or otherwise.

                    Certainly, the Penn State campuses are a problem for many of the state schools. The biggest problem in Pa. increasingly is too much college capacity for a declining number of college students. By allowing a state-related system to basically expand into the areas of the state-owned system while performing many of the same functions, our legislators have certainly contributed to this. And, of course, Penn State has a bigger name and reputation than the state schools, probably deserved in some areas and not so much in others. Guess we'll see how it all shakes out.


                    That lstretch on the Turnpike from about Carlisle to the first tunnel feels like an eternity.

                    For me going to IUP, the halfway point is around the Willow Hill exit on the Turnpike. I always though it was closer to Breezewood. The ride from Bedford to Indiana seems way longer than it really is...

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                    • Originally posted by IUPNation View Post

                      That lstretch on the Turnpike from about Carlisle to the first tunnel feels like an eternity.

                      For me going to IUP, the halfway point is around the Willow Hill exit on the Turnpike. I always though it was closer to Breezewood. The ride from Bedford to Indiana seems way longer than it really is...
                      There's not much around Willow Hill except the Path Valley and Fannett-Metal High School. I think the gap between the Bedford and Somerset exits is the longest on the Turnpike.

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                      • Originally posted by Ship69 View Post

                        There's not much around Willow Hill except the Path Valley and Fannett-Metal High School. I think the gap between the Bedford and Somerset exits is the longest on the Turnpike.
                        What I was getting at is that it seems like forever on that stretch because it goes perfectly straight for miles where most of the Turnpike is kind of curvy...

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                        • Originally posted by IUPNation View Post

                          What I was getting at is that it seems like forever on that stretch because it goes perfectly straight for miles where most of the Turnpike is kind of curvy...
                          Actually, it seems to be fairly straight and certainly flatter from the Harrisburg area east to Philly.

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                          • Originally posted by Ship69 View Post

                            Actually, it seems to be fairly straight and certainly flatter from the Harrisburg area east to Philly.
                            Parts of it....it's fairly curvy between Morgantown and Downingtown.

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                            • https://www.post-gazette.com/news/ed...s/202001150102

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                              • Temple has the great advantage of being in a bonafide **** hole.

                                But they can keep buying things up and expanding on the cheap. More and more kids want to live in an urban environment today as opposed to 20 years ago, as such it is a perfect recipe for Temple to succeed.

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