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OT - Money's Best Value Colleges in PASSHE

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  • OT - Money's Best Value Colleges in PASSHE

    https://money.com/best-colleges/


    174. West Chester
    337. Slippery Rock
    384. Bloomsburg
    567. California
    577. Shippensburg
    590. Millersville
    629. Clarion
    631. Kutztown
    669. Lock Haven
    685. IUP

  • #2
    I saw Bloomsburg "ranked number six in 2020 rankings of public universities in Pennsylvania". If WCU and SRU are two, what are the other 4 public universities in Pa.?

    Comment


    • #3
      277. Penn State
      280. Pitt
      284. Temple

      Comment


      • #4
        FWIW, most rankings are highly subjective based on data that doesn't really mean one school is better. For example, Harvard says they'll only accept applicants with a 4.0 GPA and a 1,600 SAT and that's all who apply they'd have a 100% acceptance rate and their rankings would plummet. Instead the wealthiest school in the world has an acceptance rate of just 5% because they intentionally keep their freshman class small. Most of their grad programs have unlimited capacity but have strict qualifications.

        As a higher ed guy, the only rankings I know of that are compiled by higher ed people is Washington Monthly.

        Otherwise look at average net cost for affordability, freshman retention rate and graduation rate for satisfaction, and average salary after so many years for upward mobility. Everything else is nebulous.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
          FWIW, most rankings are highly subjective based on data that doesn't really mean one school is better. For example, Harvard says they'll only accept applicants with a 4.0 GPA and a 1,600 SAT and that's all who apply they'd have a 100% acceptance rate and their rankings would plummet. Instead the wealthiest school in the world has an acceptance rate of just 5% because they intentionally keep their freshman class small. Most of their grad programs have unlimited capacity but have strict qualifications.

          As a higher ed guy, the only rankings I know of that are compiled by higher ed people is Washington Monthly.

          Otherwise look at average net cost for affordability, freshman retention rate and graduation rate for satisfaction, and average salary after so many years for upward mobility. Everything else is nebulous.
          Yes, but you're well informed and those data points require some effort to gather and comprehend. The Tom Glancy public who glances through the money magazine ratings while on the porcelain throne now think that IUP is the worst value for their money in the PSSHE.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Horror Child View Post
            https://money.com/best-colleges/


            174. West Chester
            337. Slippery Rock
            384. Bloomsburg
            567. California
            577. Shippensburg
            590. Millersville
            629. Clarion
            631. Kutztown
            669. Lock Haven
            685. IUP
            I'll have to look at their methodology.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by IUPMonk View Post
              Yes, but you're well informed and those data points require some effort to gather and comprehend. The Tom Glancy public who glances through the money magazine ratings while on the porcelain throne now think that IUP is the worst value for their money in the PSSHE.
              Nah. Cheyney, East Stroudsburg, Edinboro, and Mansfield didn't even male the list.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

                I'll have to look at their methodology.
                https://money.com/best-colleges/methodology/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Horror Child View Post
                  https://money.com/best-colleges/


                  174. West Chester
                  337. Slippery Rock
                  384. Bloomsburg
                  567. California
                  577. Shippensburg
                  590. Millersville
                  629. Clarion
                  631. Kutztown
                  669. Lock Haven
                  685. IUP

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Horror Child View Post

                    Nah. Cheyney, East Stroudsburg, Edinboro, and Mansfield didn't even male the list.
                    Cheyney, Mansfield, and Edinboro (along with Clarion) have the lowest average student family income in PASSHE - and among the lowest for the state. I believe I read somewhere that 80% of Cheyney students come from families in the lowest 25% of household income - not adjusted for cost of SEPA living.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think its a big deal. To finish 100 spots ahead of Penn State is a big deal. But Penn State and Pitt being ranked so low makes me wonder if Money ranked them system-wide rather than just the main campuses like is traditionally done.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

                        I think its a big deal. To finish 100 spots ahead of Penn State is a big deal. But Penn State and Pitt being ranked so low makes me wonder if Money ranked them system-wide rather than just the main campuses like is traditionally done.
                        To quote Shakespeare, "it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"

                        At first, I saw these results and for someone from IUP it is alarming; however, these rankings are all about the methodology.

                        If you look at how they arrived at the rankings it is definitely open to a lot of criticism. But, like all college rankings it is what it is. They tell you how they did it and these are the results.Can't argue with that.

                        In this case, I think they throw so many factors together, some simply offsetting others, that the results, once you spit them out, really don't mean too much.

                        If you want to know "value" in financial terms you would simply take the cost of the education and correlate it with the return on an investment after, say, 10 years or some other time interval.

                        It's funny that, in the limitations/caveats, they specify student learning is not a factor. Well, duh.

                        My purpose is not to denigrate WCU and support IUP. However, there are things in the way this is done that helps WCU. For example, Money does not compensate for cost of living. WCU is helped by that because it's located in a higher cost/higher-income area.

                        In this as well as other rankings, WCU is helped by the large # of transfer students from community colleges. Since an important factor is graduation rate, those transfers likely have a much higher graduation rate.

                        Also, it's not clear how room and board figures into this. Do these rankings favor commuter-oriented schools?

                        Money does not consider out-of-state tuition impacts which probably hurt institutions like PSU and Pitt in the rankings. There are more out-of-state students paying more and possibly ending up with higher debt.

                        What about the Quality of Teaching? PASSHE schools have prided themselves on things like % of classes taught bu Ph.D's, etc. Doesn't that matter?

                        There are a lot of factors that just get thrown into the mix e.g. economic mobility could be a standalone category. PASSHE schools always score highly on that.

                        Things can be completely wrong in something like this. But if you look at our rankings they are qualitatively in line with a lot of truth. WCU and SRU have been doing well on the undergrad level. IUP has focused to a certain extent on graduate school development. They need to somehow shore up the undergrad situation.

                        In the end, none of this matters. There isn't too much in the hands of the individual PASSHE schools at this point. It almost all depends on the actions of the home office in Hbg.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

                          To quote Shakespeare, "it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"

                          At first, I saw these results and for someone from IUP it is alarming; however, these rankings are all about the methodology.

                          If you look at how they arrived at the rankings it is definitely open to a lot of criticism. But, like all college rankings it is what it is. They tell you how they did it and these are the results.Can't argue with that.

                          In this case, I think they throw so many factors together, some simply offsetting others, that the results, once you spit them out, really don't mean too much.

                          If you want to know "value" in financial terms you would simply take the cost of the education and correlate it with the return on an investment after, say, 10 years or some other time interval.

                          It's funny that, in the limitations/caveats, they specify student learning is not a factor. Well, duh.

                          My purpose is not to denigrate WCU and support IUP. However, there are things in the way this is done that helps WCU. For example, Money does not compensate for cost of living. WCU is helped by that because it's located in a higher cost/higher-income area.

                          In this as well as other rankings, WCU is helped by the large # of transfer students from community colleges. Since an important factor is graduation rate, those transfers likely have a much higher graduation rate.

                          Also, it's not clear how room and board figures into this. Do these rankings favor commuter-oriented schools?

                          Money does not consider out-of-state tuition impacts which probably hurt institutions like PSU and Pitt in the rankings. There are more out-of-state students paying more and possibly ending up with higher debt.

                          What about the Quality of Teaching? PASSHE schools have prided themselves on things like % of classes taught bu Ph.D's, etc. Doesn't that matter?

                          There are a lot of factors that just get thrown into the mix e.g. economic mobility could be a standalone category. PASSHE schools always score highly on that.

                          Things can be completely wrong in something like this. But if you look at our rankings they are qualitatively in line with a lot of truth. WCU and SRU have been doing well on the undergrad level. IUP has focused to a certain extent on graduate school development. They need to somehow shore up the undergrad situation.

                          In the end, none of this matters. There isn't too much in the hands of the individual PASSHE schools at this point. It almost all depends on the actions of the home office in Hbg.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

                            Amen

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
                              So you went from "I think its a big deal" to agreeing that "none of it matters" in less than six hours. Maybe a record for self-contradiction.

                              Comment

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