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  • OT: College Football Playoff Expansion

    Surprised this wasn't already a thread. I think its a step in the right direction but just like March Madness expansion, most of this is to appease the power conferences. Once the big national talking heads like Herbstreit or even the Barstool guys point out that every other level of college football plays a full playoff we'll never experience the joy of watching a G5 school knock off a P5 school. It would make the bracket pretty large but maybe a ratio of 2 P5 schools for every G5 conference champ?

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...on/7657072002/

  • #2
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    Surprised this wasn't already a thread. I think its a step in the right direction but just like March Madness expansion, most of this is to appease the power conferences. Once the big national talking heads like Herbstreit or even the Barstool guys point out that every other level of college football plays a full playoff we'll never experience the joy of watching a G5 school knock off a P5 school. It would make the bracket pretty large but maybe a ratio of 2 P5 schools for every G5 conference champ?

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...on/7657072002/
    I don't like this unless you're capping the P5 conferences at a maximum of 2 teams each year. That guarantees a combination of ND and the champion from either the AAC, Sunbelt, MAC, Mountain West &/or CUSA playoff berths. Or if ND isn't that good and Liberty has a great season they'd take a spot. I don't want to see 3 SEC teams because "they're the highest rated conference" over an AAC/MW/CUSA champion.... Conference champs of P5 schools would get automatic berths. Then it's 7 at large spots available for the taking..

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    • #3
      Originally posted by shipfbfan1 View Post

      I don't like this unless you're capping the P5 conferences at a maximum of 2 teams each year. That guarantees a combination of ND and the champion from either the AAC, Sunbelt, MAC, Mountain West &/or CUSA playoff berths. Or if ND isn't that good and Liberty has a great season they'd take a spot. I don't want to see 3 SEC teams because "they're the highest rated conference" over an AAC/MW/CUSA champion.... Conference champs of P5 schools would get automatic berths. Then it's 7 at large spots available for the taking..
      I'm interested in any proposal that makes the CFP accessible to more than one G5 team. Everyone says they should play a tougher schedule but schedules are made so far out now that its unfair to penalize a good team playing a schedule negotiated 7 years earlier when they stunk. ND shouldn't be accommodated. The basketball tournament doesn't recognize independent teams nor should CFP. There are already models out there in FCS and the D2 to include high performing teams that don't win their conference. Granted they usually include things the sports talk industry doesn't generally discuss like OWP and OOWP.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

        I'm interested in any proposal that makes the CFP accessible to more than one G5 team. Everyone says they should play a tougher schedule but schedules are made so far out now that its unfair to penalize a good team playing a schedule negotiated 7 years earlier when they stunk. ND shouldn't be accommodated. The basketball tournament doesn't recognize independent teams nor should CFP. There are already models out there in FCS and the D2 to include high performing teams that don't win their conference. Granted they usually include things the sports talk industry doesn't generally discuss like OWP and OOWP.
        I agree in a perfect world it would be champions of all leagues and an at large bid for another P5 school however we all know that the powers that be will never allow that. They'll allow at most 2 non P5 entries every year and because I'm sure they want the ND brand they'd make an exception to include them in the Non P5 entries.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by shipfbfan1 View Post

          I agree in a perfect world it would be champions of all leagues and an at large bid for another P5 school however we all know that the powers that be will never allow that. They'll allow at most 2 non P5 entries every year and because I'm sure they want the ND brand they'd make an exception to include them in the Non P5 entries.
          ND brand could be irrelevant in the next 20 years once boomers start fading. The TV contract can't be bringing in what it once did although it does keep them honest with SOS. I'm curious what happens when its time to renegotiate that contract in 2024-2025.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

            ND brand could be irrelevant in the next 20 years once boomers start fading. The TV contract can't be bringing in what it once did although it does keep them honest with SOS. I'm curious what happens when its time to renegotiate that contract in 2024-2025.
            True I would love to see what their stipends for players are. I know SEC Schools pay up to $7k and like you said the newer kids don't care about tradition they care about who is winning, sending the most players to the NFL & who is paying for them to play. ND may be forced to bite the bullet and join the ACC full time if they can't get a great TV deal from NBC going forward....

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            • #7
              Originally posted by shipfbfan1 View Post

              True I would love to see what their stipends for players are. I know SEC Schools pay up to $7k and like you said the newer kids don't care about tradition they care about who is winning, sending the most players to the NFL & who is paying for them to play. ND may be forced to bite the bullet and join the ACC full time if they can't get a great TV deal from NBC going forward....
              Without getting this too far off course, Millennials and Gen Z aren't very Catholic and aren't as into their ancestors nationality as previous generations. There are a whole lotta Boomers who follow ND purely because of religion, heritage, or geography. I think that sort of proclivity is what got ND the TV deal and its a dying characteristic.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by shipfbfan1 View Post

                I don't like this unless you're capping the P5 conferences at a maximum of 2 teams each year. That guarantees a combination of ND and the champion from either the AAC, Sunbelt, MAC, Mountain West &/or CUSA playoff berths. Or if ND isn't that good and Liberty has a great season they'd take a spot. I don't want to see 3 SEC teams because "they're the highest rated conference" over an AAC/MW/CUSA champion.... Conference champs of P5 schools would get automatic berths. Then it's 7 at large spots available for the taking..
                The proposed 12 team bracket would actually feature the following:
                • The top six conference champions would qualify along with the six best at-large teams (which will probably be dominated by the SEC if the powers that be have their way). So at least one of the Group of Five conference champions would be represented (maybe even a second, depending on how low the Pac 12 champion finishes compared to the other conferences).
                • The top four seeds - and the corresponding first round byes - would be reserved for conference champions. Even if Notre Dame (or another independent like Liberty) finishes the season undefeated, the highest seed independent teams can hope for is #5.
                • The First Round would consist of #12 at #5, #11 at #6, #10 at #7 and #9 at #8 - all at the home of the higher seeded qualifiers. Bowl games (presumably the New Year's Six bowl games - Cotton, Fiesta, Orange, Peach, Rose and Sugar) would host the quarterfinals and semifinals, with the championship game hosted at a neutral site (ie. Houston, Indianapolis, LA, etc.).
                Where I will agree with you is that "at-large" berths should be limited to two per conference so we don't see one league (SEC or B1G) overrunning the bracket with too many teams at the expense of other conferences.
                Cal U (Pa.) Class of 2014

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                • #9
                  My opinion on this means nothing, but ... I don't like it.

                  With four teams, the #5 team cries and says "expand the field." So they say let's expand to 8. But wait, #9 would cry. OK, let's go with 12 teams then. So what will happen when #13 Colorado State goes 10-1 and is left out? Hey, let's expand it to 16! Next thing you know, we have a 64-team tournament that takes six weeks to complete and teams that go 6-5 are included.
                  http://www.indianagazette.com
                  www.twitter.com/MattBurglund

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Matt Burglund View Post
                    My opinion on this means nothing, but ... I don't like it.

                    With four teams, the #5 team cries and says "expand the field." So they say let's expand to 8. But wait, #9 would cry. OK, let's go with 12 teams then. So what will happen when #13 Colorado State goes 10-1 and is left out? Hey, let's expand it to 16! Next thing you know, we have a 64-team tournament that takes six weeks to complete and teams that go 6-5 are included.
                    That's why I feel that you have to use conference champs as the qualifier. That's 10 teams and theoretically you could stop right there. A 10-team bracket has 2 play-in games that could be the lowest-ranked* G5 teams. The P5 will suddenly be all about 16 teams and I think that's okay but like you said its a slippery slope and the P5 teams will try to skew the process to benefit them as they did with basketball.

                    *Gotta get the polls out of consideration. That's kind of how we got into this mess. I like the simple WP/OWP/OOWP numbers.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

                      That's why I feel that you have to use conference champs as the qualifier. That's 10 teams and theoretically you could stop right there. A 10-team bracket has 2 play-in games that could be the lowest-ranked* G5 teams. The P5 will suddenly be all about 16 teams and I think that's okay but like you said its a slippery slope and the P5 teams will try to skew the process to benefit them as they did with basketball.

                      *Gotta get the polls out of consideration. That's kind of how we got into this mess. I like the simple WP/OWP/OOWP numbers.
                      THIS. So... Much... THIS...

                      The only issue is that you're leaving the Independents out of the mix unless they decide to join a conference (hello, Notre Dame, Liberty, BYU), though in practicality, when you factor in the conference championship games as "qualifiers" of sorts, you're really talking about 20 teams with a chance (obviously, varying degrees) of qualifying for the "Final 10" and a chance for the national title. But, who's to say that a champion from a weak P5 conference (hello, Pac 12) wouldn't slip down to 7th?

                      The "conference champions" only scheme would've been my personal choice, but at least expanding it to 12 does at least give an opening to a G5 school or even two.
                      Cal U (Pa.) Class of 2014

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ctrabs74 View Post

                        The proposed 12 team bracket would actually feature the following:
                        • The top six conference champions would qualify along with the six best at-large teams (which will probably be dominated by the SEC if the powers that be have their way). So at least one of the Group of Five conference champions would be represented (maybe even a second, depending on how low the Pac 12 champion finishes compared to the other conferences).
                        • The top four seeds - and the corresponding first round byes - would be reserved for conference champions. Even if Notre Dame (or another independent like Liberty) finishes the season undefeated, the highest seed independent teams can hope for is #5.
                        • The First Round would consist of #12 at #5, #11 at #6, #10 at #7 and #9 at #8 - all at the home of the higher seeded qualifiers. Bowl games (presumably the New Year's Six bowl games - Cotton, Fiesta, Orange, Peach, Rose and Sugar) would host the quarterfinals and semifinals, with the championship game hosted at a neutral site (ie. Houston, Indianapolis, LA, etc.).
                        Where I will agree with you is that "at-large" berths should be limited to two per conference so we don't see one league (SEC or B1G) overrunning the bracket with too many teams at the expense of other conferences.
                        Bold No. 1 - That's just reality. The 3rd or 4th team in the SEC would smack the vast majority of G5 league winners.

                        Bold No. 2 - That point is already raising a stink because the Top 4 seeds don't get an on-campus game. That's worth a lot of coin in many places.

                        Bold No. 3 - Isn't the point of this to get the 12 best teams in the field? Are we to actually believe, say, SEC third place LSU is less of a team than Colorado State?


                        Of course they only want (1) G5 champion in the mix. Simplest terms, follow the money. Liberty isn't going to draw many viewers. Reality is the 12 best teams likely come out of 3 conferences -- and, occasionally, the PAC will get a powerhouse (USC, etc.).

                        Is this being prompted at all by so many kids not in the final playoff bailing on the bowl games thus turning most in to watered-down jokes? Adding 3 to 4 extra games to the season of teams who make it that far sure seems to negate the 'student athlete' theory. Seems like the pimps will do great financially ... not so much the workers. Will sure-fire Round 1 guys really want to play another 3 to 4 games at the end of an already incredibly long season?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post

                          Bold No. 1 - That's just reality. The 3rd or 4th team in the SEC would smack the vast majority of G5 league winners.

                          Bold No. 2 - That point is already raising a stink because the Top 4 seeds don't get an on-campus game. That's worth a lot of coin in many places.

                          Bold No. 3 - Isn't the point of this to get the 12 best teams in the field? Are we to actually believe, say, SEC third place LSU is less of a team than Colorado State?


                          Of course they only want (1) G5 champion in the mix. Simplest terms, follow the money. Liberty isn't going to draw many viewers. Reality is the 12 best teams likely come out of 3 conferences -- and, occasionally, the PAC will get a powerhouse (USC, etc.).

                          Is this being prompted at all by so many kids not in the final playoff bailing on the bowl games thus turning most in to watered-down jokes? Adding 3 to 4 extra games to the season of teams who make it that far sure seems to negate the 'student athlete' theory. Seems like the pimps will do great financially ... not so much the workers. Will sure-fire Round 1 guys really want to play another 3 to 4 games at the end of an already incredibly long season?
                          Liberty doesn't draw that many viewers in theory. But what we learn from the basketball tournament is that a) people love to cheer for upsets, and b) people love to root against the media Cinderella stories. If Liberty wins that game, it generates more viewers for the next game. A 9-3 Auburn has a huge base but 9-3 Auburn vs 10-2 Wisconsin is the reason the bowl games suck so much. Its a snoozer unless there's a SportsCenter worthy play.

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                          • #14

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                            • #15
                              Correct. Most years it will be a glorified SEC vs Big 10 Challenge (along with Clemson).

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