Pennsylvania Western University

[Fightingscot82]

The plan is 100% to retain three separate athletic programs. The PASSHE research showed that athletes are 8-12% of a campus enrollment for the 6 campuses in question with an additional 8% enrollment group indirectly related to athletics. We're in this situation because of an enrollment drop - they can't afford to drop a single extra student. The plan has to reverse the trend in order to work.

That's my biggest fear - that even with a well-designed and executed plan, it fails because the state keeps raising tuition or enrollment keeps dropping.

[iupgroundhog]

The plan is 100% to retain three separate athletic programs. The PASSHE research showed that athletes are 8-12% of a campus enrollment for the 6 campuses in question with an additional 8% enrollment group indirectly related to athletics. We're in this situation because of an enrollment drop - they can't afford to drop a single extra student. The plan has to reverse the trend in order to work.

That's my biggest fear - that even with a well-designed and executed plan, it fails because the state keeps raising tuition or enrollment keeps dropping.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the enrollment is going to continue to drop. The demographics, the primary culprit, are not going to reverse themselves.

Will the merger be more attractive to students than the current schools are, i.e. is the merger greater than the sum of its parts?

I think the schools, especially the PWU schools will continue to contract.

As for sports, I hope some semblance of the system we are all used to will continue on. Unfortunately, there is nothing official yet. If you review the public statements that have been made nobody has committed to anything.

[boatcapt]

I mentioned the merger of two state colleges in Vermont into a single university (though they maintained their separate athletics programs). Here are a few articles from 2017 regarding the initial merger of Johnson State College and Lyndon State College into Northern Vermont University:

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/OffMessa...son-and-lyndon

https://www.vpr.org/vpr-news/2017-09...ont-university

Here is a 2019 post-merger progress report:

https://www.northernvermont.edu/site...rt_2.20.19.pdf

Now, NVU would be consolidated with Castleton University (formerly Castleton State College) and Vermont Technical College into Vermont State University by 2023:

https://vtdigger.org/2021/09/21/cast...te-university/

https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/...ch/5810772001/

https://www.vsc.edu/transformation/

https://www.vsc.edu/wp-content/uploa...-Update-14.pdf

https://www.castleton.edu/alumni-giv...ification-faq/

This is what the Vermont State Colleges System chancellor said re: future of athletics programs at Castleton, NVU-Johnson and NVU-Lyndon in the next to last link:

We intend to maintain the in demand Athletic program options on your campus after unification. We understand the critical importance athletics play as part of the student experience and in recruiting students to our universities. We are doing some significant analysis and planning as part of transformation to ensure students have access to a wide array of programs with the coaching, facilities, and support that are needed to make them successful. We are not able to make guarantees about specific sports at this time, but we will have more details to offer in the coming months. As has been the case for many years, athletic programs are added and removed at all VSC institutions in large part based on student interest, recruitment potential, and participation. While individual programs might eventually change at some campuses, we are also looking at adding additional options at those same campuses that align with student interest and facilities.

If the Penn West merger follows the same pattern as what's happening in Vermont, then I would suspect that Cal, Clarion and Edinboro will retain their independent athletic programs (same with Bloomsburg, Lock Haven and Mansfield if/when the Eastern merger occurs). The point of this entire post is that there is precedent to allow separate NCAA programs at different campuses within the same university under a single accreditation (at least that's how I'm reading how the NVU merger played out).

During a recent town hall meeting at Castelton University (one of the new merger victims) the state system officials were asked if the 28 sports currently at Castelton would continue. They would only say that Castelton will have sports...Similar to the statements coming out of the PASSHE although I don't know if anyone has ever asked the PASSHE if ALL sports will continue at ALL merged campuses.

Anyone know if any reporter has asked specifically if ALL sports currently played at each campus will continue AND will they continue at the DII level?

[Bart]

Just finished reading a book by Richard Russo Straight Man that takes place at West Central Pennsylvania University. It could be any campus in the system.

[complaint_hopeful]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the enrollment is going to continue to drop. The demographics, the primary culprit, are not going to reverse themselves.

Will the merger be more attractive to students than the current schools are, i.e. is the merger greater than the sum of its parts?

I think the schools, especially the PWU schools will continue to contract.

As for sports, I hope some semblance of the system we are all used to will continue on. Unfortunately, there is nothing official yet. If you review the public statements that have been made nobody has committed to anything.

I agree on Enrollment. In theory, they might get the right leadership in place to counter this...but I think there will be integration pains for the 1st few years that take time to work out.

As for sports, I think they'll continue, but constantly be evaluated.

Honestly...do some of the schools that are never competitive at a sport need a team? Yeah I know some of the kids pay tuition.

[Fightingscot82]

I agree on Enrollment. In theory, they might get the right leadership in place to counter this...but I think there will be integration pains for the 1st few years that take time to work out.

As for sports, I think they'll continue, but constantly be evaluated.

Honestly...do some of the schools that are never competitive at a sport need a team? Yeah I know some of the kids pay tuition.

Technically they all pay tuition. A full football scholarship still pays the school with real dollars. Its not a coupon code at a private school.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I agree on Enrollment. In theory, they might get the right leadership in place to counter this...but I think there will be integration pains for the 1st few years that take time to work out.

As for sports, I think they'll continue, but constantly be evaluated.

Honestly...do some of the schools that are never competitive at a sport need a team? Yeah I know some of the kids pay tuition.

They all pay in one way or another. Some just have it paid for them via scholarship money (raised by the program). But, they still pay.

So, that's why they still all have programs (the Lock Haven's, etc.).

[complaint_hopeful]

Technically they all pay tuition. A full football scholarship still pays the school with real dollars. Its not a coupon code at a private school.

Ahh that's a great point. The University gets dollars no matter what.

As I understand it, a decent amount of sports offer very small scholarship dollars, so the students pay out-of-pocked more.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Ahh that's a great point. The University gets dollars no matter what.

As I understand it, a decent amount of sports offer very small scholarship dollars, so the students pay out-of-pocked more.

That's true but that is largely on them. There's nothing saying Clarion women's volleyball can't be 'fully funded' ... they'd just have to be able to find enough support through donors to do it. In these small towns, the heavy donors are typically football and basketball supporters.

[Fightingscot82]

And don't forget that athletic aid isn't all that the students are receiving. A lot of kids are getting federal and state grants plus some get academic money. A half decent number aren't paying or borrowing anything after its all added together.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

And don't forget that athletic aid isn't all that the students are receiving. A lot of kids are getting federal and state grants plus some get academic money. A half decent number aren't paying or borrowing anything after its all added together.

The 'academic money' is the greatest thing you can get as a program. For instance, you get a basketball player on a full academic ride (or even 75%). That doesn't count against the 10 scholarship limit in D2. So, if you get a great player on academic money, you can essentially have 11 scholarship players to fill 10 scholarship spots (assuming you're fully funded). Huge advantage for depth, etc.

[Fightingscot82]

The 'academic money' is the greatest thing you can get as a program. For instance, you get a basketball player on a full academic ride (or even 75%). That doesn't count against the 10 scholarship limit in D2. So, if you get a great player on academic money, you can essentially have 11 scholarship players to fill 10 scholarship spots (assuming you're fully funded). Huge advantage for depth, etc.

Actually, the best is the employee tuition waiver. That's a full ride that doesn't count. Usually those are bench filler guys but IUP got 5 years out of Dante.