Clarion HC

[Fightingscot82]

Correct. There are basically three tiers in PSAC football:

A) The handful who play (and spend) to win, and are strong 'regional' programs
B) The .500 crowd (spend just enough to be happy with going 6-5 or 5-6. Every once in awhile the stars align and they may get to 7-4.
C) The enrollment boosters -- the dead weight (Lock Haven, Clarion, etc.) who like having 100 kids on the team with about 95% of them paying their own way. The results don't really matter. Every couple years they make a coaching change to appear that they care. But, then the losing just continues.


Even in our Group A, nobody is close to winning beyond the SR1 championship with any regularity. In a good year, IUP or SRU could maybe get up to what, 25 or 26 equivalencies. The amount of quality depth lost by not getting to 36 is insane. With those 10 more rides an IUP or SRU could sign 10 more full-ride guys ... or, they could sign 20 to half rides. Your bench quality -- which PSAC teams lack -- improves dramatically. The trickle down is come November when you inevitably have injuries, you have quality guys on the roster -- not an assortment of players getting 5% scholarship money. You can recruit much better quality.

Our top programs are pretty good in players 1-22. It's players 23 to 44 that we have massive drops in talent. The proof, well, just take a look at most playoff scores when our teams get walloped by other regions' heavyweights.

I don't know if its purely a will to win as some make it out to be. Lock Haven's head coach salaries have been top third for over a decade. There's a correlation between on-field success and scholarship dollars. I honestly believe that some schools have hit a ceiling on football fundraising. You can only squeeze so much juice out of an orange.

Also, the most successful football schools in our conference don't have wrestling. That helps quite a bit with allocating men's opportunity dollars.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I don't know if its purely a will to win as some make it out to be. Lock Haven's head coach salaries have been top third for over a decade. There's a correlation between on-field success and scholarship dollars. I honestly believe that some schools have hit a ceiling on football fundraising. You can only squeeze so much juice out of an orange.

Also, the most successful football schools in our conference don't have wrestling. That helps quite a bit with allocating men's opportunity dollars.

I have some real concerns with IUP's fundraising in the coming years. IUP has an incredibly older core fanbase. They luck out in having some major corporate friends but the core of actual individual donors isn't getting any younger.

[Fightingscot82]

Today is the last day of operation for PASSHE campuses until January 3. If the job isn't posted by today, that's a lot of time lost when people are thinking about work & future while also having the downtime to put together applications.

[iupgroundhog]

I don't know if its purely a will to win as some make it out to be. Lock Haven's head coach salaries have been top third for over a decade. There's a correlation between on-field success and scholarship dollars. I honestly believe that some schools have hit a ceiling on football fundraising. You can only squeeze so much juice out of an orange.

Also, the most successful football schools in our conference don't have wrestling. That helps quite a bit with allocating men's opportunity dollars.

To go off track a little bit and at the same time conflate multiple issues, I think it would be a reasonable plan if some of these triad schools dropped their NCAA affiliation to D3, while maintaining their D1 programs in Wrestling (and FH for LH). I think there might be a clause with the NCAA that says the grandfathering of the wrestling programs in D1 requires the NCAA affiliation to be only 1 division separate, that is, the rest of the program has to be D2; however, if that is the case I'm sure it can be amended. Under the current circumstances, I think the athletic programs at LHU, Clarion, and Mansfield could benefit by a drop to D3. I might add Edinboro to that list. Could they do that? I think they all could find ample competition in D3 based on their location.

P.S. I also think, at present, the PASSHE requires all schools under their jurisdiction to compete as D2 affiliates but that also can be changed and is a rule that has probably outlived its usefulness.

[Fightingscot82]

To go off track a little bit and at the same time conflate multiple issues, I think it would be a reasonable plan if some of these triad schools dropped their NCAA affiliation to D3, while maintaining their D1 programs in Wrestling (and FH for LH). I think there might be a clause with the NCAA that says the grandfathering of the wrestling programs in D1 requires the NCAA affiliation to be only 1 division separate, that is, the rest of the program has to be D2; however, if that is the case I'm sure it can be amended. Under the current circumstances, I think the athletic programs at LHU, Clarion, and Mansfield could benefit by a drop to D3. I might add Edinboro to that list. Could they do that? I think they all could find ample competition in D3 based on their location.

P.S. I also think, at present, the PASSHE requires all schools under their jurisdiction to compete as D2 affiliates but that also can be changed and is a rule that has probably outlived its usefulness.

I don't believe PASSHE has any rule about athletics classification. That would be the first I've heard of it. I also don't know how much savings could be had by dropping down to D3. Scholarships are the only real difference and they're privately funded. Coaching salary savings would be modest. The biggest barrier would probably be conference affiliation. D3 is predominantly private liberal arts schools - would they want to bring in state schools? Its almost the inverse of the rhetorical question about admitting Gannon & Mercyhurst years ago. Travel costs could increase - and the biggest problem now is finances. Can't make the situation worse.

[iupgroundhog]

I don't believe PASSHE has any rule about athletics classification. That would be the first I've heard of it. I also don't know how much savings could be had by dropping down to D3. Scholarships are the only real difference and they're privately funded. Coaching salary savings would be modest. The biggest barrier would probably be conference affiliation. D3 is predominantly private liberal arts schools - would they want to bring in state schools? Its almost the inverse of the rhetorical question about admitting Gannon & Mercyhurst years ago. Travel costs could increase - and the biggest problem now is finances. Can't make the situation worse.

I think it's a requirement for PASSHE schools to be in the PSAC and the PSAC is a D2 conference. However, these things can be changed as we saw with the PSAC coaches voting to eliminate the D1 Wrestling schools from the PSAC tournament.

I hear what you're saying but I also think in the coming years all options will have to be on the table for the triads. First, they are in dire straits and I believe will remain so. Their on-campus population continues to drop and will drop further. This will create a lot of pressure to maintain a full-fledged athletics program at each campus. That is speculative, I know, but I think realistic.

Even if D3 saved a small amount of money it could be a track for these schools. It would improve their level of competitiveness all the while keeping a robust program with a lot of sports. Being accepted into an existing conference might be a challenge but they would have each other to compete against. Plus, there are so many D3 schools available to schedule I think it's doable. Not to mention PSU campuses. As for the state school stigma I think they would get over that.

[Ship69]

"I think it's a requirement for PASSHE schools to be in the PSAC and the PSAC is a D2 conference."

I believe Cheyney has basically dropped out of the PSAC.

[iupgroundhog]

"I think it's a requirement for PASSHE schools to be in the PSAC and the PSAC is a D2 conference."

I believe Cheyney has basically dropped out of the PSAC.

But they don't have intercollegiate athletics at all. That's the difference.

[Ship69]

But they don't have intercollegiate athletics at all. That's the difference.

They're playing a full slate of men's and women's basketball against small colleges, community colleges, Penn State branch campuses etc. Women are also playing volleyball.

[iupgroundhog]

They're playing a full slate of men's and women's basketball against small colleges, community colleges, Penn State branch campuses etc. Women are also playing volleyball.

I didn't know that, Below is an article from May 2021 that gives a rundown on what is going on there. After reading it I still don't know. Maybe somebody else can provide some info.

https://www.pottsmerc.com/2021/05/15...-extinction-2/

[playersdad]

I'd like to suggest Brenden Boylin as the HC and he can have JJ Eckels, as his DC. Both were let go by Mercyhurst recently. As I mentioned before, although I coached in another conf. I played in the PSAC and closely follow it, catching at least 1 game every weekend. I was impressed with what I saw at a couple Clarion games this season, they played hard the entire game even though they were outmatched. Dumping their HC may be a way to make remaining players feel they have a say in the program, what happens when the next guy doesn't buy into the current players and brings in his own though? Is Clarion setting themselves up to simply let the players run the show and having a coaching staff answer to them? Maybe the AD just cannot go along with bad season after bad season and a change had to be made, maybe there will be significant changes in the way the football dept. is run regarding funding, etc...but why now? Weibel is not a bad coach and the next guy will be in the same situation.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I'd like to suggest Brenden Boylin as the HC and he can have JJ Eckels, as his DC. Both were let go by Mercyhurst recently. As I mentioned before, although I coached in another conf. I played in the PSAC and closely follow it, catching at least 1 game every weekend. I was impressed with what I saw at a couple Clarion games this season, they played hard the entire game even though they were outmatched. Dumping their HC may be a way to make remaining players feel they have a say in the program, what happens when the next guy doesn't buy into the current players and brings in his own though? Is Clarion setting themselves up to simply let the players run the show and having a coaching staff answer to them? Maybe the AD just cannot go along with bad season after bad season and a change had to be made, maybe there will be significant changes in the way the football dept. is run regarding funding, etc...but why now? Weibel is not a bad coach and the next guy will be in the same situation.

And all said players with skill are long gone. That's another major problem.

[RockNation]

I'd like to suggest Brenden Boylin as the HC and he can have JJ Eckels, as his DC. Both were let go by Mercyhurst recently. As I mentioned before, although I coached in another conf. I played in the PSAC and closely follow it, catching at least 1 game every weekend. I was impressed with what I saw at a couple Clarion games this season, they played hard the entire game even though they were outmatched. Dumping their HC may be a way to make remaining players feel they have a say in the program, what happens when the next guy doesn't buy into the current players and brings in his own though? Is Clarion setting themselves up to simply let the players run the show and having a coaching staff answer to them? Maybe the AD just cannot go along with bad season after bad season and a change had to be made, maybe there will be significant changes in the way the football dept. is run regarding funding, etc...but why now? Weibel is not a bad coach and the next guy will be in the same situation.

I heard players hated Weibel.

Idk if Boylan is ready to be a HC but it is better to hire a young up and comer who knows the conference than to go find some DIII guy who "knows how to operate without money."

Gannon and Mercyhurst have money and they've been swinging and missing for years. Cal gets hammered after the Luckhardt situation and then immediately nail it with a Gary Dunn hire.

The ADs can find the right guy, but do they want to............

[Cavalier 1]

I heard players hated Weibel.

Idk if Boylan is ready to be a HC but it is better to hire a young up and comer who knows the conference than to go find some DIII guy who "knows how to operate without money."

Gannon and Mercyhurst have money and they've been swinging and missing for years. Cal gets hammered after the Luckhardt situation and then immediately nail it with a Gary Dunn hire.

The ADs can find the right guy, but do they want to............

Cal still had plenty of money after Lucky, it would have been hard not to be successful, Clarion is different ballgame, must be able to recruit and evaluate and be different,

[KU_2014]

I don't know if its purely a will to win as some make it out to be. Lock Haven's head coach salaries have been top third for over a decade. There's a correlation between on-field success and scholarship dollars. I honestly believe that some schools have hit a ceiling on football fundraising. You can only squeeze so much juice out of an orange.

Also, the most successful football schools in our conference don't have wrestling. That helps quite a bit with allocating men's opportunity dollars.

Most of them don't, but Kutztown does. Kutztown's wrestling team is currently ranked 16th too.