THE IUP Football Thread

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Dr. Evil with a serious clown move in the nineties crying to League office about Frank bringing some notoriety to the League. Probably set the League back if it even recovered at all…just sayin.

Had that not happened, I doubt IUP would still be in the PSAC. Their level of dominance would have likely resulted in moving up.

Frank didn't grow magic beans. He raised money. Tons of it. When you subtract all the football hyperbole, the game comes down to which team has better players. All that fundraising he did enabled IUP to simply buy better players -- and more of them -- than everybody else.

IUP (and Frank) got punished because he could raise 2x or 3x more coin than everybody else. For a stretch, he was the Yankees in a league full of Pirates and Royals. That money also opened the door to the transfer market (much more rare in that time). Eventually, the peasants overtook the King.

My senior year here IUP had 16-17 former Big East football players on the roster.

Ironically, nobody cried about transfers more than Dr. Evil. Ironically, under the Mini Me regime, SRU now takes more than anybody in the league.

[Fightingscot82]

Had that not happened, I doubt IUP would still be in the PSAC. Their level of dominance would have likely resulted in moving up.

Frank didn't grow magic beans. He raised money. Tons of it. When you subtract all the football hyperbole, the game comes down to which team has better players. All that fundraising he did enabled IUP to simply buy better players -- and more of them -- than everybody else.

IUP (and Frank) got punished because he could raise 2x or 3x more coin than everybody else. For a stretch, he was the Yankees in a league full of Pirates and Royals. That money also opened the door to the transfer market (much more rare in that time). Eventually, the peasants overtook the King.

My senior year here IUP had 16-17 former Big East football players on the roster.

Ironically, nobody cried about transfers more than Dr. Evil. Ironically, under the Mini Me regime, SRU now takes more than anybody in the league.

I'd love to read a book or longform article about Frank Sr adapting the 1970s WVU model at IUP. There is a book out there about Edinboro adopting a Big Ten wrestling model to transition to Division I that is an easy and enjoyable read. Matt Burglund ?

[iupgroundhog]

I'd love to read a book or longform article about Frank Sr adapting the 1970s WVU model at IUP. There is a book out there about Edinboro adopting a Big Ten wrestling model to transition to Division I that is an easy and enjoyable read. Matt Burglund ?

I remember being in The Fieldhouse locker room and I don't know what the original question was but Frank's reply was "The way you build a program is to continually recruit better players than what you have." I guess that was his model.

[Fightingscot82]

I remember being in The Fieldhouse locker room and I don't know what the original question was but Frank's reply was "The way you build a program is to continually recruit better players than what you have." I guess that was his model.

I was talking more about the fundraising and community support system he built. IUP had big-time corporate sponsors, car leases, etc. before anyone else.

[IUP24]

Had that not happened, I doubt IUP would still be in the PSAC. Their level of dominance would have likely resulted in moving up.

Frank didn't grow magic beans. He raised money. Tons of it. When you subtract all the football hyperbole, the game comes down to which team has better players. All that fundraising he did enabled IUP to simply buy better players -- and more of them -- than everybody else.

IUP (and Frank) got punished because he could raise 2x or 3x more coin than everybody else. For a stretch, he was the Yankees in a league full of Pirates and Royals. That money also opened the door to the transfer market (much more rare in that time). Eventually, the peasants overtook the King.

My senior year here IUP had 16-17 former Big East football players on the roster.

Ironically, nobody cried about transfers more than Dr. Evil. Ironically, under the Mini Me regime, SRU now takes more than anybody in the league.

Let's consider this as well...

Assume what we're talking about never happens. Whether they would still be in the PSAC or not being mostly irrelevant. Would the KCAC exist? Would IUP basketball be what it is now? Isn't the other thing that Joe has managed to land the bigger fish in town, and more dollars, because those individuals and dollars were available with football being "down?" To a point at least.

It's an interesting April conversation. I would argue that IUP basketball managed to grab the mantle because of how IUP football was neutralized, in a way. That's a long time ago, but it's not THAT long ago. I really wonder if IUP has the basketball program they do if they managed to fundraise and win at the rate that they were back then. The KCAC may not exist either. Joe was on the rise when they built that venue, and it's a fantastic multipurpose facility that gets a lot of run. That said, multipurpose or not, it's the house that Joe built. Same with the Hilton.

I also wonder how with a fully funded program, and a crap ton of extra dollars, that would look in today's game. For the longest time, the appeal for D1 players dropping down a level was to play immediately without having to sit out a year. That was a recruiting advantage for schools trying to land transfers. That exists no longer. Interesting conversation for sure.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Let's consider this as well...

Assume what we're talking about never happens. Whether they would still be in the PSAC or not being mostly irrelevant. Would the KCAC exist? Would IUP basketball be what it is now? Isn't the other thing that Joe has managed to land the bigger fish in town, and more dollars, because those individuals and dollars were available with football being "down?" To a point at least.

It's an interesting April conversation. I would argue that IUP basketball managed to grab the mantle because of how IUP football was neutralized, in a way. That's a long time ago, but it's not THAT long ago. I really wonder if IUP has the basketball program they do if they managed to fundraise and win at the rate that they were back then. The KCAC may not exist either. Joe was on the rise when they built that venue, and it's a fantastic multipurpose facility that gets a lot of run. That said, multipurpose or not, it's the house that Joe built. Same with the Hilton.

I also wonder how with a fully funded program, and a crap ton of extra dollars, that would look in today's game. For the longest time, the appeal for D1 players dropping down a level was to play immediately without having to sit out a year. That was a recruiting advantage for schools trying to land transfers. That exists no longer. Interesting conversation for sure.

Hard to say. BUT ... IUP was winning in basketball long before Joe arrived. In fact, to this day, the best team in school history (per most) was the 94-95 team. Gary Edwards also won Regionals and made a Final Four, too. Joe did have to do a total rebuild because of the fallout of the Edwards era, but the KCAC wasn't built because Joe started winning more. It was in the planning stages long before Joe was even hired. I also don't think the Hilton has anything to do with Joe's basketball program.

[IUP24]

I was talking more about the fundraising and community support system he built. IUP had big-time corporate sponsors, car leases, etc. before anyone else.

Businesses being one thing, I believe the people still need an appetite for it. I think one of the things that helped IUP then with football, and even now with basketball, is that there is a connection between community and school. Not that people in Indiana, PA and surrounding areas don't first root for either Pitt, Penn State, or WVU, there's at least a bridge between the two parties that creates some level of a rooting interest there. It helps that IUP is strong in the two primary sports as well. My sister went to Cal in the "hey day" of Cal football. She was in the band during each of the trips of the national semifinals. That town and community within the Mon-Valley, which is where I'm from, couldn't care less.

Comparing the two areas, Indiana is bigger than California. And the community is also intermixed with the university better (outside of IUPatty's weekend). I think it's similar for football at Slippery Rock. The town of Slippery Rock is small, but Butler county has a large population and isn't far from some big areas (ex: Cranberry, Butler, etc).

I think at this level, you're so reliant on local support and donors to help create successful programs. Not that you aren't reliant on that stuff at the upper levels, but these programs are all fighting to be "fully funded." And in towns like all of ours, there's only so many big fish, large corporations, and dollars out there. And they aren't all obligated to support the local football or basketball teams. I think IUP is fortunate that they seem to have some great support from the businesses locally that all seem to have good pull in town.

To your original point, I would be curious in learning more about those initial conversations that Frank Sr. had with the locals he was courting. I think Indiana as a community, has an appetite for wanting successful programs, but that may not have always been organic.

[IUP24]

Hard to say. BUT ... IUP was winning in basketball long before Joe arrived. In fact, to this day, the best team in school history (per most) was the 94-95 team. Gary Edwards also won Regionals and made a Final Four, too. Joe did have to do a total rebuild because of the fallout of the Edwards era, but the KCAC wasn't built because Joe started winning more. It was in the planning stages long before Joe was even hired. I also don't think the Hilton has anything to do with Joe's basketball program.

IUP is uniquely successful in the two most important sports. They may be the only one in the PSAC that can say that. When you consider the funding, limited big fish, etc., that's impressive.

[IUP24]

Hard to say. BUT ... IUP was winning in basketball long before Joe arrived. In fact, to this day, the best team in school history (per most) was the 94-95 team. Gary Edwards also won Regionals and made a Final Four, too. Joe did have to do a total rebuild because of the fallout of the Edwards era, but the KCAC wasn't built because Joe started winning more. It was in the planning stages long before Joe was even hired. I also don't think the Hilton has anything to do with Joe's basketball program.

I only use the terms and the verbiage that I read from you, partner. ;)

I can't take credit for coining each venue as the "House that Joe Built" Lol

[IUPbigINDIANS]

IUP is uniquely successful in the two most important sports. They may be the only one in the PSAC that can say that. When you consider the funding, limited big fish, etc., that's impressive.

Oh God ... be careful what you call the 'two most important sports' ... this thread will turn in to the other one. lol

Personally, I agree. They are the two most important.

[IUPNation]

IUP is uniquely successful in the two most important sports. They may be the only one in the PSAC that can say that. When you consider the funding, limited big fish, etc., that's impressive.

The Home Office in Lock Haven like sports programs that comes in second or third across the board like Gannon or sweep the track categories like Ship.

IUP Ladies in Tennis and Softball are making noise. The baseball team is doing better now that it’s in league play but I doubt they make a ton of noise.

If the ladies win both titles that would be 5 Pee Sack titles and we still won’t crack the top 5 for the Useless Trophy.

[IUPNation]

Oh God ... be careful what you call the 'two most important sports' ... this thread will turn in to the other one. lol

Personally, I agree. They are the two most important.

Too late. He proved my point.

[Fightingscot82]

The Home Office in Lock Haven like sports programs that comes in second or third across the board like Gannon or sweep the track categories like Ship.

IUP Ladies in Tennis and Softball are making noise. The baseball team is doing better now that it’s in league play but I doubt they make a ton of noise.

If the ladies win both titles that would be 5 Pee Sack titles and we still won’t crack the top 5 for the Useless Trophy.

All those last place finishes sometimes weigh down the titles.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

The Home Office in Lock Haven like sports programs that comes in second or third across the board like Gannon or sweep the track categories like Ship.

IUP Ladies in Tennis and Softball are making noise. The baseball team is doing better now that it’s in league play but I doubt they make a ton of noise.

If the ladies win both titles that would be 5 Pee Sack titles and we still won’t crack the top 5 for the Useless Trophy.

Softball is better but still a year away. Same with baseball.

Tennis has a shot.

[iupgroundhog]

I was talking more about the fundraising and community support system he built. IUP had big-time corporate sponsors, car leases, etc. before anyone else.

Sure but I don't know if Frank started the fundraising and community support or if the fundraising and community support came first.

Bringing Frank in as AD was the first building block in the process. We had widespread community support that wanted to bring IUP Football back to the 1964-1974 heyday.

After about '74 or so the program had dropped off so far and the people who were around from the earlier period got the ball rolling. They had a willing University President in John Welty, no insignificant thing. They brought Frank in as AD, who brought George Chaump in as HC, who brought Rich Ingold in as a transfer QB and it was off and running.

Frank, of course, spearheaded it all, but it was a university-wide effort. And, let me tell you, there were a lot of people in the IUP community against the new emphasis.

As AD, Frank cut some sports and shifted internal funding towards football which resulted in IUPNation complaining about IUP's performance in the Dixon Trophy standings.