HBCU weakness

[UWARTime]

No question the opportunity is there. I do however question that fact that it is widely known. The question commonly asked on Google "Can white players play at HBCU?" Currently there is no answer, there is a link to an article that moves the discussion to the fact that celebrities' kids are playing at HBCU's. I sent a request that they at least post "Yes"

Before we assume they know can we at least tell them.

[CalifOKRA]

[LegalRam]

It's not just a moniker, it's actually a federal designation. So it would take an act of Congress to move on from the term HBCU. There are also Minority Serving Institutes as well.

The HBCU designation certainly doesn't seem to have impacted non people of color from becoming the majority at Bluefield State and West Virginia State.

[willicor]

Not shocked by the post or the excuses.

Have a good day.

[boyblue]

I agree and to equate that with vestiges of the preantebellum south I believe is unfair. Any symbols attached to these institutions are all positive. There is not hate, there is only pride.

If the description of a university as historically black is a problem for an individual then obviously those institutions are not for them.

[boyblue]

It's not just a moniker, it's actually a federal designation. So it would take an act of Congress to move on from the term HBCU. There are also Minority Serving Institutes as well.

The HBCU designation certainly doesn't seem to have impacted non people of color from becoming the majority at Bluefield State and West Virginia State.

20% of the Bahamian population is white and they fly the Bahamian flag as proudly as anyone, with its black triangle that denotes the strength of our people, not the color. They've thrived in a historically black country. You see like HBCU's we don't exclude and we take care of our own. I maintain that any non black that chooses to experience the rich culture would almost certainly become a better version of themself.

And to my original point, these schools owe it to themselves to recruit diversly. I believe it's the key to their success on the gridiron.

[LegalRam]

20% of the Bahamian population is white and they fly the Bahamian flag as proudly as anyone, with its black triangle that denotes the strength of our people, not the color. They've thrived in a historically black country. You see like HBCU's we don't exclude and we take care of our own. I maintain that any non black that chooses to experience the rich culture would almost certainly become a better version of themself.

And to my original point, these schools owe it to themselves to recruit diversly. I believe it's the key to their success on the gridiron.

So I don't really understand how this comment is a response to what I stated in my last comment. However, thanks for the Bahamian analogy and it's good to know that white Bahamians and white HBCU students share an equal pride for their respective country and colleges.

Back to your original point. First you referenced Jackson State recruiting the best players, but looking at their roster they have seven white players with most being kickers. That's probably about par for the course for most HBCUs, so really not seeing how the Jackson State reference made sense as it relates to getting more diversity on HBCU football teams.

You also seem to be lumping all HBCUs together making the assumption that they don't attempt to recruit for a more diverse team without taking into account for variables like a) budgets and b) willingness of non african american players to come to an HBCU to play. Since this is a D2 board I will address D2 HBCUs. Like most D2 programs we are working with limited budgets, especially when it comes to recruiting. So therefore most schools end up recruiting from their pipelines where they have had success in the past. For most of the CIAA schools (for example) that ends up being from predomintely black highschools; therefore, it becomes a cycle of having a team with little diversity because you are recruiting from high school teams with little diversity. I would love if WSSU could take recruiting trips into the NC mountains and Southern VA to recruit from some of those schools, but from a budget standpoint it seems to make more sense to take trips to their pipeline schools in Greensboro, Durham, Fayetteville, and Charlotte where the coaches can hit multiple schools in the same day and they know they have a good success rate of signing players.

I am in no way opposed to fielding more diverse teams, but that doesn't mean it will equate to more success. If you look at a lot of HBCUs you will see very diverse baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, and volleyball teams. However, outside of some rare examples like Bluefield State Tennis and UMES Bowling, the vast majority of those diverse teams aren't winning regional and national championships.

[boyblue]

So I don't really understand how this comment is a response to what I stated in my last comment. However, thanks for the Bahamian analogy and it's good to know that white Bahamians and white HBCU students share an equal pride for their respective country and colleges.

Back to your original point. First you referenced Jackson State recruiting the best players, but looking at their roster they have seven white players with most being kickers. That's probably about par for the course for most HBCUs, so really not seeing how the Jackson State reference made sense as it relates to getting more diversity on HBCU football teams.

You also seem to be lumping all HBCUs together making the assumption that they don't attempt to recruit for a more diverse team without taking into account for variables like a) budgets and b) willingness of non african american players to come to an HBCU to play. Since this is a D2 board I will address D2 HBCUs. Like most D2 programs we are working with limited budgets, especially when it comes to recruiting. So therefore most schools end up recruiting from their pipelines where they have had success in the past. For most of the CIAA schools (for example) that ends up being from predomintely black highschools; therefore, it becomes a cycle of having a team with little diversity because you are recruiting from high school teams with little diversity. I would love if WSSU could take recruiting trips into the NC mountains and Southern VA to recruit from some of those schools, but from a budget standpoint it seems to make more sense to take trips to their pipeline schools in Greensboro, Durham, Fayetteville, and Charlotte where the coaches can hit multiple schools in the same day and they know they have a good success rate of signing players.

I am in no way opposed to fielding more diverse teams, but that doesn't mean it will equate to more success. If you look at a lot of HBCUs you will see very diverse baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, and volleyball teams. However, outside of some rare examples like Bluefield State Tennis and UMES Bowling, the vast majority of those diverse teams aren't winning regional and national championships.

I meant to quote the post before yours. I had no issue with the quoted post, I would correct it but then the thread may become difficult to follow, you made a good point.

On to the rest of your response, BTW, I do appreciate that you are speaking to the issue raised. As far as the Jackson State example, on reflection I don't know that Coach Prime is doing anything different than the other coaches. It's probably his high profile and people skills that has resulted in his recruiting success.

In terms of building diversity, all I'm saying is that non black students should at least know that HBCU's are an option. Every year there are hundreds (if not thousands) of kids with D1 talent playing D2 ball because they didn't get D1 offers. That's a gap that HBCU's can fill. Same thing with D3, as a coach in the CIAA or SAIC I would make offers. If that's being done then fine.

BTW, I am not suggesting HBCU's recruit non black players for the heck of it. I am suggesting they cast a wider net in an effort the get better talent. If a player grades highest at a position recruit him no matter his race. If the decision is between Albany State and Berry College or LaGrange College chances are ASU will win that recruit.

Right now it's a vicious cycle. Coaches don't put in the effort because they figure the kids aren't interested and the kids show no interest because they figure that they aren't wanted. I am only suggesting that a way be found to break this cycle to the mutual benefit of both parties.

[BSURover31]

I meant to quote the post before yours. I had no issue with the quoted post, I would correct it but then the thread may become difficult to follow, you made a good point.

On to the rest of your response, BTW, I do appreciate that you are speaking to the issue raised. As far as the Jackson State example, on reflection I don't know that Coach Prime is doing anything different than the other coaches. It's probably his high profile and people skills that has resulted in his recruiting success.

In terms of building diversity, all I'm saying is that non black students should at least know that HBCU's are an option. Every year there are hundreds (if not thousands) of kids with D1 talent playing D2 ball because they didn't get D1 offers. That's a gap that HBCU's can fill. Same thing with D3, as a coach in the CIAA or SAIC I would make offers. If that's being done then fine.

BTW, I am not suggesting HBCU's recruit non black players for the heck of it. I am suggesting they cast a wider net in an effort the get better talent. If a player grades highest at a position recruit him no matter his race. If the decision is between Albany State and Berry College or LaGrange College chances are ASU will win that recruit.

Right now it's a vicious cycle. Coaches don't put in the effort because they figure the kids aren't interested and the kids show no interest because they figure that they aren't wanted. I am only suggesting that a way be found to break this cycle to the mutual benefit of both parties.

Head coaches just want to win. I assure you that the color of skin doesn't matter. Again, if there are players of need within the geographic region that fit a need, coaches will recruit them. I say this as I've recruited and played with squads featuring non- Black offensive lineman, QB's, LB's, Safeties, and Kickers. Speaking as a MD resident, its a matter of does the Caucasian kid from Annapolis, Southern, or Western MD want to go to Bowie or would they feel more comfortable going to a PWI. I don't think this post is appropriately titled. I don't see it as a weakness at all. Its all about the quality of players that you have, regardless of what hue they are.

[boyblue]

Head coaches just want to win. I assure you that the color of skin doesn't matter. Again, if there are players of need within the geographic region that fit a need, coaches will recruit them. I say this as I've recruited and played with squads featuring non- Black offensive lineman, QB's, LB's, Safeties, and Kickers. Speaking as a MD resident, its a matter of does the Caucasian kid from Annapolis, Southern, or Western MD want to go to Bowie or would they feel more comfortable going to a PWI. I don't think this post is appropriately titled. I don't see it as a weakness at all. Its all about the quality of players that you have, regardless of what hue they are.

It may not be for the reason I've identified but there is a weakness, OOC and PO results are a clear indicator. Bowie has an exceptional team this year but wouldn't you rather that be the norm. Of course coaches are going to recruit the best players possible but if the environment is such that the HBCU option is not considered then what chance does a coach have. All I suggest is that as a group, these institutions be proactive in moving the default answer closer to neutral for non black student athletes.

[BSURover31]

It may not be for the reason I've identified but there is a weakness, OOC and PO results are a clear indicator. Bowie has an exceptional team this year but wouldn't you rather that be the norm. Of course coaches are going to recruit the best players possible but if the environment is such that the HBCU option is not considered then what chance does a coach have. All I suggest is that as a group, these institutions be proactive in moving the default answer closer to neutral for non black student athletes.

Bowie has been conference (CIAA) Champions and playoff participants its last three football seasons of play. I'd like to think thats considered great, regardless of their HBCU designation. The coaches have done a great job of scheduling those OOC games against other successful programs, to help strengthen SOS and conference perception. What is the weakness of a PWI when they lose? Is the weakness different than when a HBCU loses? You want to know the real weakness of a Bowie State compared to other Powerhouse DII school: FUNDING. That is what separates us. 98% of our team is from the surrounding area. We arent built off of D1 transfers and don't have the money to get big time out of state recruits. We are notorious for doing more with less. We don't make excuses, our weakness has become our strength .

[boyblue]

Bowie has been conference (CIAA) Champions and playoff participants its last three football seasons of play. I'd like to think thats considered great, regardless of their HBCU designation. The coaches have done a great job of scheduling those OOC games against other successful programs, to help strengthen SOS and conference perception. What is the weakness of a PWI when they lose? Is the weakness different than when a HBCU loses? You want to know the real weakness of a Bowie State compared to other Powerhouse DII school: FUNDING. That is what separates us. 98% of our team is from the surrounding area. We arent built off of D1 transfers and don't have the money to get big time out of state recruits. We are notorious for doing more with less. We don't make excuses, our weakness has become our strength .

Let me preface my response by making it clear I believe you have a great program and of course it's not your fault or any HBCU's that certain players are not minded to consider your schools. In terms of the money for scholarships, the ethnicity of players do not change the price tag, so I don't see that as the issue. I am merely suggesting that an effort be undertaken to inform non black players that they are welcome and if such an initiative is already in place that it be expanded.

Let me just ask, if it were possible to remove the unfair stigma that others have placed on HBCU's (that non black players are persona non grata), do you believe that the talent level could possibly improve? If HBCU coaches were able to recruit like coaches from other schools, might their roster look a bit different? I suspect so. It only follows that they have had to accept less talented players occasionally. By my definition that is a weakness. It may be one which a special team may be able to overcome (and if you guys beat us, I'd be pulling for it) but in my opinion it is one that with a little fence mending could be removed.