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Wingate vs West Florida (The Trilogy)

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Bulldog Blue View Post

    They were all set to be admitted in (unsure of this date--2008?). I was a Juior at WU then so I should remember.They had played a limited SAC schedule the prior year and the SAC president Doug Echols had approved and recommended NGU for membership. It all came down to a vote by the school presidents. The NGU president made some boastful remarks in the big Upstate newspaper which many considered disrespectful toward the SAC, the level of competition and a couple of schools in particular. That article was picked up by The State, Charlotte Observer and RN&O and to put it bluntly "It hit the fan". The vote was NO. Personally I would like to see them in the SAC.
    Basically NG pooped in their own nest. Them and Pembroke would be better than Barton and VaWise. There were some issues other than the paper but I just don’t recall.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Bulldog Blue View Post

      They were all set to be admitted in (unsure of this date--2008?). I was a Juior at WU then so I should remember.They had played a limited SAC schedule the prior year and the SAC president Doug Echols had approved and recommended NGU for membership. It all came down to a vote by the school presidents. The NGU president made some boastful remarks in the big Upstate newspaper which many considered disrespectful toward the SAC, the level of competition and a couple of schools in particular. That article was picked up by The State, Charlotte Observer and RN&O and to put it bluntly "It hit the fan". The vote was NO. Personally I would like to see them in the SAC.
      Wow! That's crazy. I would have not expected that. If the the SAC remains intact over the next few years and the GSC loses the teams that everyone expects, the SAC could become the premier conference in SR2.

      Originally posted by Bearhof View Post

      Basically NG pooped in their own nest. Them and Pembroke would be better than Barton and VaWise. There were some issues other than the paper but I just don’t recall.
      The SAC has already been competitive, throw in NGU and Pembroke, and the SAC would be a gauntlet. I'm curious to see where all schools end up over the next several years.
      RESPECT THE STATESMEN, FEAR THE OKRA!
      Delta State University, GSC

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      • #18
        The North Greenville President flat out refused to play games on Sunday which didn’t help either. I heard they changed their tune after being turned away.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by ironcheftvdinner View Post
          The North Greenville President flat out refused to play games on Sunday which didn’t help either. I heard they changed their tune after being turned away.
          It should be noted that this comment reflects the opinion(s) of the former president of NGU, not the current one. NGU has played games on Sundays when necessary.

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          • #20
            The trenches of the two teams have similarities and some differences that may play a part in the outcome of the game. Both OL rosters average 300 lbs. with the same number of upper classmen, but the the Argo starters generate more rushing yards and give up fewer sacks.

            The Bulldogs have a bigger DL roster with a couple more upperclassmen, but it is much lighter than the Argos. They have piled up a lot more sacks, probably due to their quickness. The 300 lb. Limestone OL ran for 100 yds. over the Bulldogs defensive rushing avg., but only 5 yds. over the Argos defensive avg. against the bigger Argo DL.

            The quicker Bulldog DL might be able to keep up with the quick Argo RB in the first half, but the Argos rotate their 3 RB from the start of the game to keep them fresh and they may start finding chunk yardage in the second half when the Wingate DL starts wearing down. The roster numbers are below.

            OL West Fla. / Wingate

            Total No.: 19 / 26
            Upperclass: 8 / 7
            +300 lbs.: 12 / 12
            +285 lbs.: 19 / 14
            Avg.: 307 lbs. / 295

            DL West Fla. / Wingate

            Total No.: 18 / 27
            Upperclass: 7 / 9
            +300 lbs.: 7 / 3
            +260 lbs.: 18 / 14
            Avg.: 293 lbs. / 256

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Argonut View Post
              The trenches of the two teams have similarities and some differences that may play a part in the outcome of the game. Both OL rosters average 300 lbs. with the same number of upper classmen, but the the Argo starters generate more rushing yards and give up fewer sacks.

              The Bulldogs have a bigger DL roster with a couple more upperclassmen, but it is much lighter than the Argos. They have piled up a lot more sacks, probably due to their quickness. The 300 lb. Limestone OL ran for 100 yds. over the Bulldogs defensive rushing avg., but only 5 yds. over the Argos defensive avg. against the bigger Argo DL.

              The quicker Bulldog DL might be able to keep up with the quick Argo RB in the first half, but the Argos rotate their 3 RB from the start of the game to keep them fresh and they may start finding chunk yardage in the second half when the Wingate DL starts wearing down. The roster numbers are below.

              OL West Fla. / Wingate

              Total No.: 19 / 26
              Upperclass: 8 / 7
              +300 lbs.: 12 / 12
              +285 lbs.: 19 / 14
              Avg.: 307 lbs. / 295

              DL West Fla. / Wingate

              Total No.: 18 / 27
              Upperclass: 7 / 9
              +300 lbs.: 7 / 3
              +260 lbs.: 18 / 14
              Avg.: 293 lbs. / 256
              Excellent information here. The Bulldogs will have to play a solid game to have a shot here but it totally doable if they keep the mistakes at a minimum. Wingate lost to Newberry which is the closest comparison I have to UWF and in that game it boiled down to 4 plays. If you review the box score without looking at the score you would have thought Wingate won by a mile, but actually lost by 9. Either way I hope it is a great game and Wingate can bring the energy that they will need. This could be a classic Wingate game of hold the ball in order to gain a small edge.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by ironcheftvdinner View Post
                The North Greenville President flat out refused to play games on Sunday which didn’t help either. I heard they changed their tune after being turned away.
                That's a fantastic rule, especially for a religious school. If you're going to play games on Sunday (thinking baseball or softball), make sure they are early afternoon games to give everyone time to go to worship first. But I do like the rule of, "Hey we're Christian's first, we aren't playing games on Sunday." (quotation mine)

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                • #23
                  A few things stand out when looking at the two defenses: the Argo DL is bigger, the Argos have more upperclassmen at LB and DB and they force more fumbles; the Bulldogs have more picks due to their large number of sacks and they give up half as many rushing yards and total TDs.

                  It’s pretty obvious that the Argos rely more on their offense to win games and the Dogs rely more on their defense to win games. The key matchup is likely to be the Argo OL and their rushing attack vs. the Bulldogs sack heavy DL.

                  The Dogs sack numbers are primarily generated by 2 DT that weigh 270 and 2 DE that weigh 230, essentially LB. This DL would be a good setup to sack Austin Reed, but he is gone and his quick, short passing game has been replaced by a bulldozing running attack with quick, short RB interspersed with just enough deep balls to fast WR to confuse and expose the defense.

                  I would hate to be a Wingate DB trying to cover WR Durden and Leggett while also trying to keep an eye on RB Mason and Hargrove darting into the secondary. I imagine the Argo coaches will be running their 330 lb. tackles at the 230 lb. DE all day long and may not have to pass very much. On the other side of the coin the Argo defense will have to tackle a Bulldog RB roster full of big 6’ 200 lb. RB. It should be a great game and the teams defensive stats are below for comparison.

                  Wingate

                  Rushing: 882 yds. (67/gm.) @ 2.2 yds., 5 TDs
                  Passing: 2047 yds. (157/gm.) @ 5.6 att., 10 TDs
                  Sacks: 60-364; Fumbles: 10-5; Intercpt: 18-281

                  Pos./Player/Tackles/TFL/Sack/INT/FF-FR

                  LB Gilmore: 90 / 19.5 / 5.5 / 0 / 1-0
                  LB Edwards: 87 / 10 / 0 / 1 / 0-0
                  DE Fleming: 69 / 22.5 / 13 / 0 / 3-0
                  DB Armwood: 55 / 7.5 / 1 / 2 / 0-0
                  DE Horne: 50 / 20 / 11 / 0 / 1-0
                  DT Cook: 43 / 15 / 11 / 0 / 1-1
                  DB Mullen: 42 / 1.5 / 0 / 2 / 0-0
                  DT Rhodes: 41 / 10.5 / 4.5 / 0 / 0-1
                  DB Thomas: 36 / 3 / 1 / 2 / 0-1
                  DB Mosley: 36 / 4.5 / 0 / 3 / 0-0

                  West Florida

                  Rushing: 2024 yds. (168/gm.) @ 4.3 yds., 19 TDs
                  Passing: 2515 yds. (209/gm.) @ 5.5 att., 15 TDs
                  Sacks: 17-97; Fumbles: 20-8; Intercpt: 11-231

                  LB Breland: 82 / 4 / 1 / 1 / 0-2
                  LB Jordan: 77 / 3 / 0 / 1 / 0-0
                  DB Showers: 57 / 0 / 0 / 1 / 2-0
                  DB Voisin: 50 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 1-0
                  LB Johnson: 48 / 1.5 / 1 / 0 / 1-0
                  LB Lowe: 40 / 3 / 0 / 0 / 0-2
                  LB Whetzel: 40 / 3 / .5 / 1 / 0-0
                  DB Johnson: 37 / 2 / 0 / 2 / 0-1
                  DL Walker: 33 / 4.5 / 2.5 / 0 / 0-0
                  LB Laurent: 26 / 5 / 2 / 0 / 1-0

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by FormerCrusader#84 View Post

                    It should be noted that this comment reflects the opinion(s) of the former president of NGU, not the current one. NGU has played games on Sundays when necessary.
                    That is correct, it was the former President.

                    The SAC Sunday play rule was to try and not schedule games for Sunday at all. If a game had to be scheduled on Sunday play had to be after noon. The Sunday play really only came into effect when baseball and softball had to delay games due to weather.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      The special teams of both are excellent with the main difference being that Wingate uses their big senior kicker (6’4”, 235) Evans to handle all the kicking and the Argos use 3 kickers to handle each unit. Wingate has blocked more kicks (6-2), but West Fla. hasn’t been blocked (0-2) themselves. The Argos have scored more on returns (2-0) and both have given up one TD on returns.

                      Both teams kickoff 62 yds. and punt 42-45 yds. with Bulldogs having more touchbacks and punts downed inside the 20. The Argos are slightly better on KO and punt returns and both cover returns the same.

                      The Argos FG kicker has made a higher percentage of FG, but most of Wingate misses were long distance. Both FG kickers have made a long kick of 41 yds. and the winds on game day will be light and shouldn’t affect their accuracy. The Wingate kicker has missed one PAT and the Argo kicker is perfect on his PATs. The season numbers are below.

                      Wingate

                      KO: 62 yds. avg. (42 TB, 2 OB)
                      Return: 19.8 avg. / Cover avg: 18 yds.
                      Punt: 45 avg. (17 FC, 38 I20)
                      Return: 11 avg. / Cover avg.: 5 yds.
                      FG: 10-18

                      West Florida

                      KO: 62 yds. avg. (28 TB, 1 OB)
                      Return: 25 avg. / Cover avg.: 20 yds.
                      Punt: 42 avg. (14 FC, 17 I20)
                      Return: 14 avg. / Cover avg.: 5 yds.
                      FG: 14-18

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ironcheftvdinner View Post

                        That is correct, it was the former President.

                        The SAC Sunday play rule was to try and not schedule games for Sunday at all. If a game had to be scheduled on Sunday play had to be after noon. The Sunday play really only came into effect when baseball and softball had to delay games due to weather.
                        Great rule.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Massey predicts a 28-17 Argo win.

                          Given Argo home scoring average of 45, their increased rushing average of 43 yds. in big games, the fact that the 300 lb. Limestone OL ran for 100 yds. over Wingate’s rushing average and the Argos have won the turnover battle in both playoff games, I believe the Argos will score at least in the 30’s absent a turnover meltdown.

                          Wingate can score more if their D gets some picks, which they are good at creating with their DL pressure.

                          I’m thinking game will be in 30’s for Argos and 20’s for Bulldogs anywhere from 30-28 nailbiter to 38-20 Argo ball control win. Should be a great game and school reported a sell out of home side tickets early in week and the weather will be perfect dry, sunny and 70’s, so there should be a big crowd since Argo band, students and fans have filled up visitors side all season long.

                          Gooo Arrrgggooosss!!!!!!
                          Last edited by Argonut; 12-02-2022, 08:17 AM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Argonut View Post
                            Massey predicts a 28-17 Argo win.

                            Given Argo home scoring average of 45, their increased rushing average of 43 yds. in big games, the fact that the 300 lb. Limestone OL ran for 100 yds. over Wingate’s rushing average and the Argos have won the turnover battle in both playoff games, I believe the Argos will score at least in the 30’s absent a turnover meltdown.

                            Wingate can score more if their D gets some picks, which they are good at creating with their DL pressure.

                            I’m thinking game will be in 30’s for Argos and 20’s for Bulldogs anywhere from 30-28 nailbiter to 38-20 Argo ball control win. Should be a great game and school reported a sell out of home side tickets early in week and the weather will be perfect dry, sunny and 70’s, so there should be a big crowd since Argo band, students and fans have filled up visitors side all season long.

                            Gooo Arrrgggooosss!!!!!!
                            I agree with everything you have said. I do believe we will have to be able to be better at the passing game than we have the first two rounds. When PeeWee is hot, he’s unbeatable. That passing game will loosen the run and the sky is the limit, just has to be clicking this week.

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                            • #29
                              TV Broadcast????

                              #BlazerNation

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                              • #30
                                The Goargos website has free game link video and weather here will be cloudy and low 70’s for game. The school sold out home side in a day and is offering free tickets to first 500 UWF students and discount general admission to any other student. Looking like biggest crowd of season with tailgating starting at 9 am, gate open at noon and kickoff at 1 pm central.

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