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  • Travel Distance Reasons to Forget Silo Conference Scheduling

    I know the chances for the GAC and MIAA to move from the silo conference football games to a hybrid schedule that allows for teams to play out of conference games are so slim a camel could slide through the eye of needle before it would happen. Even so I have been wondering what reason(s) might make the two conferences be so staunchly affixed to the silo schedule. I am sure the possible lower costs of games closer to home and the familiarity of the opponent’s season after season might be the biggest draw.

    With that in mind I began to look at the travel distance between the farthest teams within each of the two conferences and compared them to the distance between teams in other conferences nearby. Does it surprise you to learn that there are other D2 teams in other conferences that are closer than some teams within the same conferences? If distance is the motivator, then some schools would benefit to play out of conference games with team’s other conferences than it would be to play within conference. Let me give some examples.

    In the GAC, the University of Arkansas at Monticello appears to be southern and eastern most school while Northwest Oklahoma State University the northern most and Southwestern Oklahoma State University the western most schools.
    University of Arkansas Monticello (GAC) to . . .
    Northwest Oklahoma State University (GAC) 545 miles
    Southwestern Oklahoma State University (GAC) 493 miles
    University of West Florida (GSC) 415 miles
    Pittsburg State University (MIAA) 392 miles
    Central Missouri (MIAA) 418 miles
    University of West Alabama (GSC) 298 miles
    Within that radius of UAM to the University of West Florida you could include Delta State University, Mississippi College and Lane College (Jackson, TN) and still travel less distance than to the farthest Oklahoma schools in the GAC.
    Southwestern Oklahoma State University (GAC) to . . .
    University of Central Missouri (MIAA) 461 miles
    Ft. Hays State University (MIAA) 266 miles
    Midwestern State University (Lone Star) 131 miles
    San Angelo State University (Lone Star) 382 miles
    University of Texas Permian Basin (Lone Star) 404 miles
    Eastern New Mexico State University (Lone Star) 308 miles
    West Texas State University (Lone Star) 283 miles

    In the MIAA, Missouri Southern University appears to be southernmost school while Nebraska Kearney the northern most school and Ft. Hays State the westernmost school. I excluded the MIAA Oklahoma schools since whatever travel information from within the GAC Oklahoma schools would also apply to them; thus listing of Missouri Southern as the southernmost MIAA school.
    Missouri Southern University (MIAA) to . . .
    Nebraska Kearney State University (MIAA) 473 miles
    Ft. Hays State University (MIAA) 367 miles
    Delta State University (GSC) 454 miles
    Lane College, TN (SIAC) 392 miles
    Nebraska Kearney State University (MIAA) to . . .
    Black Hills State University (RMAC) 453 miles
    Augustana University (Northern Sun) 293 miles
    University of Sioux Falls (Northern Sun) 293 miles
    The distance from the southernmost GAC school (UAM) to the northernmost Missouri school (NWMo) is only 50 miles further than the distance from UAM to NW Oklahoma which are in the same conference!

    Summary: distance is not really a strong motivator for a silo conference schedule when almost all schools within either the GAC or MIAA have many options for travel that is much, much closer than several in conference schools.

    Changing from silo to out of conference cheduling will be difficult unless both the GAC and MIAA forgo silo scheduling at the same time and work to have home and home games with several of each other’s schools. But it could be a great boost to play so many other options over the years and help to boost the strength of schedule score that can enhance the regional ratings for our conferences.

    Okay, so what now? In short, I don’t know but I might have given you something to mull over and think about. Who knows, maybe one of us might be able to say the right thing, at the right time, to the right person(s) to get them thinking about the benefits of scheduling out of conference games.
    ​​​​​​​

    Hope you enjoyed this!
    Last edited by Bisonfan from FLA; 10-14-2022, 08:38 AM.

  • #2
    Thanks BisonFan. I appreciate the travel analysis. I think we’ve all known for a while that travel expenses is not the strongest motivation for silo scheduling in the GAC and MIAA. In D1 it comes down to wealthy alumni putting pressure on board members. I don’t know what it takes in D2 to get universities to make the change. All I know is that it would strengthen the GAC for schools to play teams from the MIAA and LSC.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Bisonfan from FLA View Post
      I know the chances for the GAC and MIAA to move from the silo conference football games to a hybrid schedule that allows for teams to play out of conference games are so slim a camel could slide through the eye of needle before it would happen. Even so I have been wondering what reason(s) might make the two conferences be so staunchly affixed to the silo schedule. I am sure the possible lower costs of games closer to home and the familiarity of the opponent’s season after season might be the biggest draw.

      With that in mind I began to look at the travel distance between the farthest teams within each of the two conferences and compared them to the distance between teams in other conferences nearby. Does it surprise you to learn that there are other D2 teams in other conferences that are closer than some teams within the same conferences? If distance is the motivator, then some schools would benefit to play out of conference games with team’s other conferences than it would be to play within conference. Let me give some examples.

      In the GAC, the University of Arkansas at Monticello appears to be southern and eastern most school while Northwest Oklahoma State University the northern most and Southwestern Oklahoma State University the western most schools.
      University of Arkansas Monticello (GAC) to . . .
      Northwest Oklahoma State University (GAC) 545 miles
      Southwestern Oklahoma State University (GAC) 493 miles
      University of West Florida (GSC) 415 miles
      Pittsburg State University (MIAA) 392 miles
      Central Missouri (MIAA) 418 miles
      University of West Alabama (GSC) 298 miles
      Within that radius of UAM to the University of West Florida you could include Delta State University, Mississippi College and Lane College (Jackson, TN) and still travel less distance than to the farthest Oklahoma schools in the GAC.
      Southwestern Oklahoma State University (GAC) to . . .
      University of Central Missouri (MIAA) 461 miles
      Ft. Hays State University (MIAA) 266 miles
      Midwestern State University (Lone Star) 131 miles
      San Angelo State University (Lone Star) 382 miles
      University of Texas Permian Basin (Lone Star) 404 miles
      Eastern New Mexico State University (Lone Star) 308 miles
      West Texas State University (Lone Star) 283 miles
      In the MIAA, Missouri Southern University appears to be southernmost school while Nebraska Kearney the northern most school and Ft. Hays State the westernmost school.
      Missouri Southern University (MIAA) to . . .
      Nebraska Kearney State University (MIAA) 473 miles
      Ft. Hays State University (MIAA) 367 miles
      University of West Florida (GSC) 415 miles
      Pittsburg State University (MIAA) 392 miles
      Central Missouri (MIAA) 418 miles
      University of West Alabama (GSC) 298 miles
      Nebraska Kearney State University (MIAA) to . . .
      Black Hills State University (RMAC) 453 miles
      Augustana University (Northern Sun) 293 miles
      University of Sioux Falls (Northern Sun) 293 miles
      The distance from the southernmost GAC school (UAM) to the northernmost Missouri school (NWMo) is only 50 miles further than the distance from UAM to NW Oklahoma which are in the same conference!

      Summary: distance is not really a strong motivator for a silo conference schedule when almost all schools within either the GAC or MIAA have many options for travel that is much, much closer than several in conference schools.

      Changing from silo to out of conference cheduling will be difficult unless both the GAC and MIAA forgo silo scheduling at the same time and work to have home and home games with several of each other’s schools. But it could be a great boost to play so many other options over the years and help to boost the strength of schedule score that can enhance the regional ratings for our conferences.

      Okay, so what now? In short, I don’t know but I might have given you something to mull over and think about. Who knows, maybe one of us might be able to say the right thing, at the right time, to the right person(s) to get them thinking about the benefits of scheduling out of conference games.

      Hope you enjoyed this!
      unless I'm missing what you are saying, UCO and even NSU are further south than MSSU. i know that drive from Edmond to Ft hays and UNK are brutal at 470 and 342 mile drives.
      Last edited by jimbo slice; 10-14-2022, 08:27 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by jimbo slice View Post

        unless I'm missing what you are saying, UCO and even NSU are further south than MSSU. i know that drive from Edmond to Ft hays and UNK are brutal at 470 and 342 mile drives.
        Yeah, that was a cut and paste error there in an effort to reduce the amount of typing from the complied data. I noticed what you mentioned and I edited the message soon after your post. Forgot to come here and tell you I did the edit. Here is the edited portion added to the original.

        "In the MIAA, Missouri Southern University appears to be southernmost school while Nebraska Kearney the northern most school and Ft. Hays State the westernmost school. I excluded the MIAA Oklahoma schools since whatever travel information from within the GAC Oklahoma schools would also apply to them; thus listing of Missouri Southern as the southernmost MIAA school."

        I also changed the schools listed under Missouri Southern, since that same cut and paste error caught up to me then (Delta State and Lane College are now listed under MSSU table). I was up a little later than usual and was in a hurry when writing the original and in the hurry to get to bed I mssed those things. Thank you for alerting me to the need to edit.

        Jumbo Slice, as a MIAA school fan might you let the MIAA forum know about this post here on the GAC page?
        Last edited by Bisonfan from FLA; 10-14-2022, 09:50 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bisonfan from FLA View Post

          Yeah, that was a cut and paste error there in an effort to reduce the amount of typing from the complied data. I noticed what you mentioned and I edited the message soon after your post. Forgot to come here and tell you I did the edit. Here is the edited portion added to the original.

          "In the MIAA, Missouri Southern University appears to be southernmost school while Nebraska Kearney the northern most school and Ft. Hays State the westernmost school. I excluded the MIAA Oklahoma schools since whatever travel information from within the GAC Oklahoma schools would also apply to them; thus listing of Missouri Southern as the southernmost MIAA school."

          I also changed the schools listed under Missouri Southern, since that same cut and paste error caught up to me then (Delta State and Lane College are now listed under MSSU table). I was up a little later than usual and was in a hurry when writing the original and in the hurry to get to bed I mssed those things. Thank you for alerting me to the need to edit.

          Jumbo Slice, as a MIAA school fan might you let the MIAA forum know about this post here on the GAC page?
          haha will do
          weve talked about it several times in the last couple of seasons. not may people are fans of silo schedules.

          Comment


          • #6
            Here’s another point on this topic. The only scenario I see this changing is what might happen this year in the playoff seeding. Realistically we could see if Pitt State and Ouachita both win out, Pitt could potentially be a 5 seed and be on the road for the playoffs for the first round. You also have to consider the schools that wouldn’t want this because they aren’t trying to make the playoffs. Schools like NWOKSU and SNU still have a vote in the conference. The key is getting those schools on board.

            Comment


            • #7
              Having the option of a non conf game gives schools a chance to put in a game or two to fill thier needs. Aschool could schedule a relationship me building game with an in region power or could schedule a win for homecoming. Or schedule a paycheck game and get name on ESPN ticker. It give options. Silo only benefits the AD. In case of miaa all it does is beat ourselves down into lower playoff seeds

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tubaguy08 View Post
                Here’s another point on this topic. The only scenario I see this changing is what might happen this year in the playoff seeding. Realistically we could see if Pitt State and Ouachita both win out, Pitt could potentially be a 5 seed and be on the road for the playoffs for the first round. You also have to consider the schools that wouldn’t want this because they aren’t trying to make the playoffs. Schools like NWOKSU and SNU still have a vote in the conference. The key is getting those schools on board.
                Yes, Region 3 is stacked with great teams and even a one loss team like Harding, which lost to a Top 10 team, might be shuffled out on the cusp of the playoffs due to strength of schedule. Having OOC games will help with the SOS issue.

                As to NWOk and SNU and lack of playoff desire; a reworked schedule could allow for travel to closer schools like Emporia or Missouri Southern than the travel involved to UAM and SAU. Again, travel could be mitigated with OOC games, allowing for less travel for everyone and enhancement to the playoff resume for those that desire that.

                It will take a lot of moving parts to be pulled together but it starts with the school administrations taking a look at what could occur for all teams in the conferences.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by the Northeasterner View Post
                  Having the option of a non conf game gives schools a chance to put in a game or two to fill thier needs. Aschool could schedule a relationship me building game with an in region power or could schedule a win for homecoming. Or schedule a paycheck game and get name on ESPN ticker. It give options. Silo only benefits the AD. In case of miaa all it does is beat ourselves down into lower playoff seeds
                  Great point on options to schedule a homecoming opponent whom you have greatest chance for a victory, or a paycheck game or just a build your brand game. Lots of options for the AD to consider. An yes, the MIAA beating down for lower playoff seeds is true. The GAC is getting stronger and has two schools well known and well respected outside the region (Harding and Ouachita) and the GAC is starting to show beatdowns of the playoff chances as well. Good to have bowl game options within the GAC and the MIAA.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Miss school hasn't have a first week bue in years

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      There is a group of uni Presidents in the MIAA who actually got it to a vote thus year. It failed, but one of the supporters was not present to vote, so I think it will happen this year.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bisonfan from FLA View Post

                        Hope your enjoyed this!
                        Speaking of distance and conferences, I just heard this morning that UCA is trying to recruit a close-by school to the ASUN and Harding was mentioned as one of two schools they are targeting. SEMO was the other.

                        Y’all hearing any rumors?
                        Go GSC and Roar LIONS!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Haven’t heard a thing. I was with the Harding AD and head coach all last Saturday for homecoming. No mention of it. My hunch is the ASUN will eastward to expand (I.e. West Georgia, Valdosta State, etc.) and to a GAC school.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by OldBison View Post
                            Haven’t heard a thing. I was with the Harding AD and head coach all last Saturday for homecoming. No mention of it. My hunch is the ASUN will eastward to expand (I.e. West Georgia, Valdosta State, etc.) and to a GAC school.
                            But, UCA wants a conference addition closer to them that's not Florida or Georgia. Can't blame them. UNA is their closest conference foe at 313 miles from Conway to Florence. It was similar for them in the Southland.
                            Go GSC and Roar LIONS!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Interesting that UCA would want to consider Harding as a potential school to move up just to help UCA have a closer opponent. UCA leaving the old Arkansas Intercollegiate Conference of the NAIA to move to D2 is what started the shift for the rest of the Arkansas schools to eventually move up to D2. Harding and Ouachita did not want to follow the other Arkansas schools into the Gulf South and so for a few years were members of the Lone Star Conference before eventually moving over to the GSC. An in time all of the Arkansas schools saw the distance (and other things) as reason to seek to band together, worked with the Oklahoma schools that were also seeking a change, and formed the current Great American Conference.

                              Though there is not discord between the schools, I don't think Harding would be a first choice for UCA to seek another Arkansas school to join them in the ASUN. If any school in Arkansas might be a strong consideration due to closeness I would think Arkansas Tech would be the first choice to speak to about moving to the ASUN. They are closer by 9 miles.

                              Comment

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