ESSU vs Ferris

[Redwing]

Re: ESSU vs Ferris

Seriously! Heard it from a guy who's brother knows a guy who has season tickets and heard it from a kid who heard TA say it.

Well there ya go... solid info with no doubt.:stop: If nothing else, TA's baggage will keep him out of GV- unless his teams is playing the Lakers. I'm also not going to argue about how good a coach TA is, but I will always wonder how good the first few years would have been without JVL. TA didn't recruit him. Now he did coach him, but JVL made a huge difference with FSU.. brought them up from being mediocre. That alone shines a bright light on TA's tenure at XFU. Imagine how XFU would be without those years of JVL. Maybe not terrible, but likely markedly lower.

[DawgUp]

Re: ESSU vs Ferris

Just when I thought I was out, I get pulled back in...

Firstly, both schools have the same number of scholarships.
Yep. So does Davenport and Northwood...So I guess it's safe to assume GV, Davenport and NW have the same amount of money available to allocate to their respective football budgets.

Secondly, Wayne State is bigger than GVSU and the largest D-II school in the entire country in terms of enrollment.
Well aware. With most of the students being commuter students from the Detroit area. Assuming that is the same for GV and Grand Rapids. Per info I've received from former coaches at Wayne St., school chooses not to invest into their athletics.

There are a number of reasons that many GV people prefer to have MM. There are a number of reasons that many Ferris people prefer to have TA.
Let me repeat..."TA has done more with less. Given a choice, I'd take TA over MM in a heartbeat." That's MY opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own.

..if you think having a bigger scoreboard or something somehow trumps that, then I don't know what to tell you.
hmmm..wonder why all of these programs at all levels are upgrading their facilities to state of the art? If you don't think bigger scoreboards, nicer locker rooms, multiple jerseys/helmet combinations, contracts with the Jordan Brand, etc...aren't used to gain an advantage in recruiting (hint this is where the operational budget comes in)...I don't know what to tell you.

Your original point, "TA has done more with less" is subjective, at best.
So what GLIAC school do you think has had a more talented 2 deep roster than GV over last 5 years?

Ok so in this thread I've conceded GV annually has more talent than any school in the GLIAC, noted they have the best facilities/amenities, probably the largest football operational budget and outright stated they should be dominating the conference year in and year out. Since TA started, winning percentage is close: TA 81% and MM 76%. But head to head TA owns MM 7-1. Given a choice, I'd take TA.

And your take away is I'm looking for validation, trying to make myself feel superior and screaming pay attention to my school?

I'm done......Again.

[BillyGV]

Re: ESSU vs Ferris

Then a fool I am. Let those coaches switch schools, you think MM would come to Ferris and have the success TA has? I'm sure TA could take GV to at least the semi-finals every year. As for your list of achievements, you're making my point for me. Every other team in the GLIAC has to do what they do with way less than what GV has. Again, you "should" have those kind of stats year in and year out. Yippee. But let me put your stats in a nice pretty box for you..

Since TA started in 2012

_____Ferris___________GVwhine
verb
.........give or make a long, high-pitched complaining cry or sound.
.........complain in a feeble or petulant way.
synonyms: complaint [noun], complain [verb], grouse, grumble, murmur;

GV is the only GLIAC team to win at least 12 games three times since 2013 and make two NCAA DII Playoff semifinal appearances - regular season is just that, regular - lol - and we are still way ahead in the series so take your roll and enjoy - we will still be winning 10 and 20 years from now and Xerris, not so much - lol

[DawgUp]

Re: ESSU vs Ferris

GV is the only GLIAC team to win at least 12 games three times since 2013 and make two NCAA DII Playoff semifinal appearances - regular season is just that, regular - lol - and we are still way ahead in the series so take your roll and enjoy - we will still be winning 10 and 20 years from now and Xerris, not so much - lol

Those notes tell you why you didn't win 13 games? 7 to 1. Enjoying my roll very much.

[BillyGV]

Re: ESSU vs Ferris

Those notes tell you why you didn't win 13 games? 7 to 1. Enjoying my roll very much.

and yet the Dogs haven't made it to the semi's even once - enjoy your roll - lol

[DawgUp]

Re: ESSU vs Ferris

Still enjoying...

Fort Hays St. NCAA Super Region 3 Regional Semifinal W, 31-21(2017)
Northwest Missouri St. NCAA Super Region 3 Regional Semifinal L, 35-20 (2016)
Grand Valley State NCAA Division II Super Region 4 Semifinals L, 38-34 (2015) [Hey, there's that 1 victory over TA]

[KleShreen]

Re: ESSU vs Ferris

Just when I thought I was out, I get pulled back in...

Firstly, both schools have the same number of scholarships.
Yep. So does Davenport and Northwood...So I guess it's safe to assume GV, Davenport and NW have the same amount of money available to allocate to their respective football budgets.

Secondly, Wayne State is bigger than GVSU and the largest D-II school in the entire country in terms of enrollment.
Well aware. With most of the students being commuter students from the Detroit area. Assuming that is the same for GV and Grand Rapids. Per info I've received from former coaches at Wayne St., school chooses not to invest into their athletics.

There are a number of reasons that many GV people prefer to have MM. There are a number of reasons that many Ferris people prefer to have TA.
Let me repeat..."TA has done more with less. Given a choice, I'd take TA over MM in a heartbeat." That's MY opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own.

..if you think having a bigger scoreboard or something somehow trumps that, then I don't know what to tell you.
hmmm..wonder why all of these programs at all levels are upgrading their facilities to state of the art? If you don't think bigger scoreboards, nicer locker rooms, multiple jerseys/helmet combinations, contracts with the Jordan Brand, etc...aren't used to gain an advantage in recruiting (hint this is where the operational budget comes in)...I don't know what to tell you.

Your original point, "TA has done more with less" is subjective, at best.
So what GLIAC school do you think has had a more talented 2 deep roster than GV over last 5 years?

Ok so in this thread I've conceded GV annually has more talent than any school in the GLIAC, noted they have the best facilities/amenities, probably the largest football operational budget and outright stated they should be dominating the conference year in and year out. Since TA started, winning percentage is close: TA 81% and MM 76%. But head to head TA owns MM 7-1. Given a choice, I'd take TA.

And your take away is I'm looking for validation, trying to make myself feel superior and screaming pay attention to my school?

I'm done......Again.

So what is the point of you continuing to be upset about anything and everything? Why don't you worry about your own school?

[Irishlaker]

Re: ESSU vs Ferris

Those notes tell you why you didn't win 13 games? 7 to 1. Enjoying my roll very much.

So, first of all, it's 6 to 2. Still overwhelmingly in Ferris's favor and your point is beyond valid, but if you're going to hang your hat on something at least do it correctly.

In between the lines? Hard to argue TA is the best in the league. Do I find him to be a savory character who stays within the rules off the field? Nope. Do I know things that back it up? Sure do, but what's the difference? You prefer your guy for your reasons, we prefer ours for ours. Do we get less out of more? Probably. Is Ferris going to be left with some crap to deal with when TA leaves? Given it has happened with all of his other stops, also probably.

But as Kle asks, "so what"? Enjoy your 6-2. I don't begrudge it, because you guys earned it on the field. I don't like the way some fans from both sides address things about the rivalry, but it's a message board and it's what it is. At least the rivalry is good again...

[DawgUp]

Re: ESSU vs Ferris

Point taken Irish. Misread the 2015 playoff score. That's on me. But I'm not hanging my hat on anything. I'm simply using a head-to-head comparison of 2 coaches.

If anyone wants to say TA and Ferris are dirty and cheat..fine. Honestly it doesn't matter one way or another. I see GV people taking shots at Ferris and TA on the board all the time. Great. I love it. Part of the rivalry.
But don't (not you directly) get super sensitive when I call out MM and GV. If people are gonna take digs at another teams coach, then be able to receive one back on theirs.

My assessment about GV and MM was based on 2 things; my own eye test and the complaints of GV people who watch them a helluva lot more than I do. In my opinion GV should have went undefeated with their talent last year. Honestly that should be most years than not. Some may agree, some may feel slighted, some resort to sackcloth & ashes. I'm cool with all 3. This board is about being able to express your opinion and counterpoints as each sees fit.

As far as TA...he is who he is...no illusions here. But I'm sure Ferris knew that when they hired him. They were looking for results, and they're getting them. The question is at what cost?

[Irishlaker]

Re: ESSU vs Ferris

Point taken Irish. Misread the 2015 playoff score. That's on me. But I'm not hanging my hat on anything. I'm simply using a head-to-head comparison of 2 coaches.

If anyone wants to say TA and Ferris are dirty and cheat..fine. Honestly it doesn't matter one way or another. I see GV people taking shots at Ferris and TA on the board all the time. Great. I love it. Part of the rivalry.
But don't (not you directly) get super sensitive when I call out MM and GV. If people are gonna take digs at another teams coach, then be able to receive one back on theirs.

My assessment about GV and MM was based on 2 things; my own eye test and the complaints of GV people who watch them a helluva lot more than I do. In my opinion GV should have went undefeated with their talent last year. Honestly that should be most years than not. Some may agree, some may feel slighted, some resort to sackcloth & ashes. I'm cool with all 3. This board is about being able to express your opinion and counterpoints as each sees fit.

As far as TA...he is who he is...no illusions here. But I'm sure Ferris knew that when they hired him. They were looking for results, and they're getting them. The question is at what cost?

We absolutely let one get away last year...and by one, I mean a Title. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. Was egregious enough that MM finally switched up who was calling the O.

I like MM...genuinely do. Does he have his flaws? Absolutely (we all do). He's smarter than most realize, and works way harder than most realize. Has he been perfect? Far from it. Are there factors he faces in his situation that are markedly different than what his predecessors saw? Uh, yeah. Do people want to acknowledge that? Some do, some don't. Most don't even know about the factors. Can't educate or please everyone, or make people believe things they aren't even open to in the first place.

For those who call for his head every 14 minutes, my initial counter is: "Cool...who we gonna get?" Most don't think that far through things.

As for TA, how you characterized it seems about right to me. The fact you can be self-aware enough as a fan to acknowledge the "At what cost" question speaks volumes. Time will tell there.

Until the playoff win in 2015 your argument is sound: TA was outcoaching MM every time out. I don't like it, but we all saw the same thing everyone else did. To his credit, while many won't admit it, MM did too. That 2015 playoff game was the first ***** in that armor. Honestly, I kinda felt like they dueled to a near draw in last year's game. D was as well prepared as it every was for what you guys do, and our O just didn't execute enough to put things away. We were better for most of that game and you guys fought through it, but that game definitely didn't feel like the ones from four years ago did.

Game in a few weeks will be interesting for sure...

[BillyGV]

Re: ESSU vs Ferris

don't know IF TA has out coached MM - TA had an excellent QB who single-handedly won games - we had that as well in the past - we haven't these past few years - we have a very good QB, but it is my contention in college you need a QB that can make things happen with his feet - run - we have seen our QB do that a couple times this year and good for him, he has learned he can do that BUT he is not a runner at all - XFU has running QB's and that is a HUGE D game planning issue - we will see it again this year as XFU has brought in a transfer who is a very good runner and a pretty good passer, that is a deadly combination for any D - we will see how the GV D handles it - the first time is always tough as it will be our first look at him or any real running QB this year but I venture to say if we meet again in the playoffs it will be a different story - anyway, we will see on 10/13 - I will be there