Is Wayne State For Real?

[WayneStatesman]

It seems there is only one solution, coach em hard. When you have less talent ya got to push your guys to the point beyond where even they believe they can go. The end result is you'll win a couple you shouldn't and with a special player or two you might win it all.

I agree in general with your statement. Our HC does not get the best out of his players. Rarely does the team rise to the occasion when playing a better team. Instead they get down on themselves right away and fold like a cheap tent.

[boyblue]

I agree in general with your statement. Our HC does not get the best out of his players. Rarely does the team rise to the occasion when playing a better team. Instead they get down on themselves right away and fold like a cheap tent.

I get you, that's where the better coaches prevail. The years where you're not good enough, your O Line is a sive or you lack leadership on D, that's where you build character. That where they learn to play hard no matter the score, there can only be one champion, everyone else is building. I've played in a game where we got beat 55-0 and after the game the opponents paid us respect because we never gave up. it's not if you lose it's how you lose. It's also how you win, I just love it when our guys make a spectacular play and jump up and toss the ball to a ref.

[mtsax305]

I've said it before, but I'm absolutely convinced our AD is taking the grass isn't always greener mentality when it comes to coaching hires and isn't going to do anything. This approach would be fine if the coach had winning seasons and had shots to win conference championships or nattys. Instead, we've had the range of average, to choke-job, to just plain bad seasons. On top of that, I'm willing to bet that a lot of those wins that we did manage to get were against teams not in the GLIAC anymore. Maybe my original question is only to try to convince myself that something can turn around with the staff we have, because it sure looks like they aren't going anywhere of note anytime soon.

[WayneStatesman]

On top of that, I'm willing to bet that a lot of those wins that we did manage to get were against teams not in the GLIAC anymore.

You are right. I looked at this stat at the end of last season. Winters had only won 26 games against teams that are currently in the GLIAC over 15 yrs. He's won 2 more this season so that's a total of 28 wins in now 16 seasons. That's absolutely horrible!

[NewEraWarrior]

You are right. I looked at this stat at the end of last season. Winters had only won 26 games against teams that are currently in the GLIAC over 15 yrs. He's won 2 more this season so that's a total of 28 wins in now 16 seasons. That's absolutely horrible!

In fairness, some of the wins Winters has gotten against teams that have left the GLIAC were strong programs. It's deceiving when you only think of the Walsh's or Malone's or Lake Erie's. I'm talking multiple hard fought wins over programs like Ohio Dominican, Hillsdale, Findlay, & Indianapolis. Those programs were either on the cusp of being contenders like Ohio Dominican & Findlay or were already contenders like Hillsdale & Indianapolis. Don't discredit those. Those teams were consistently near or at the top of the conference when WSU also had their run.

[mtsax305]

The amount of losses make the lack of wins that much worse. You might want to have a seat when you hear this number...

61.

Assuming all our numbers are right, Paul Winters is now 28-61(.315) all time against opponents currently in the GLIAC. Against all GLIAC opponents at their time in the GLIAC, he is 72-79(.477). 77% of Paul's GLIAC losses are against the current GLIAC, while only 39% of his GLIAC wins are against the current GLIAC. I've never calculated this stat out before, and it bums me out.

Just for giggles and kicks, after the 2011 season, he is 15-31(.326) against the current GLIAC. Not excellent.

[WayneStatesman]

In fairness, some of the wins Winters has gotten against teams that have left the GLIAC were strong programs..

Point taken but Winters has to play the same 8 GLIAC teams every season for the foreseeable future so I was curious what his record to date against these teams was and as we've seen it ain't good.

[NewEraWarrior]

Those numbers are freaky. Especially the 61 losses #

[WayneStatesman]

Does anybody think that if Dantonio or Harbaugh or for that matter Annese or Mitchell had a similar conference record they would still be employed at their respective schools? Come on Fournier, wake up!

[WSU Guy]

If you look at Wayne State Football program as a business, with Coach Winters as the CEO, assistant coaches as managers, and the players as workers, the business is and has been failing for years,why is what is difficult to see.

Speaking from first-hand experience, there are many, many problems as to why this program is failing:

• Coach Winters does not accept alternative ideas to his own

• Coach Winters does not delegate power effectively

• There are no checks and balances in the system

[WayneStatesman]

Great insight to what's going on with the program. Confirms what I have suspected for years that as long as Winters is the HC we will get more of the same results. As a loyal supporter, alumnus and fan it always puzzled me how a school the size of Wayne State with the facilities and resources it has available has difficulty beating schools one tenth its size at least in football anyway.

Too bad our AD is not willing to address the situation. We have more poor results to look forward to for awhile I guess.

[mtsax305]

With that win, the team is can be good enough for a third place finish, and in fairness, we haven't done that in a while. What sucks is that I think that is the ceiling of any PW team. It speaks to the talent gap between Ferris, GV, and the rest of the conference.

That game showed that when this team can click, they can play with anyone. Closing out against good teams seems to be a problem. It's a W for the guys on the field, but there's still basic issues with this team. One more stop or one more first down could have kept us out of OT.

[WayneStatesman]

It's the old dilemma of what's best for the long term success of the program vs short term success. I'm glad to see Wayne State win. I'm not gonna lie, if they finish the season 6-5 or 7-4 I'd be happy 'cuz I thought after the 1st two games this would be a losing season for sure.
On the other hand that means PW will be around for awhile longer and I don't think he is capable of building a program to the level of where GV and FSU are today.

[mtsax305]

It's HUGE dilemma! I can't imagine the optics of firing Coach now on what is definitely an upswing from last season and 2017. I also doubt there's another program out there that would want him to be a coordinator or if he would even want to leave. Pending the results of the rest of the season, those wins over Saginaw and Ashland (no matter the clear flaws shown in the 4th Q) might have bought him a job here for another year or two. The only way out will be on his terms, unless the President (who seems to be an Athletics fan) steps in. No matter what happens, he will have left the program in a better place now than it was before.

This has been said for years, but maybe this time around, we can ride a (knock on wood) winning season into building something for the future.