Grand Valley State University vs. Ferris State University

[KleShreen]

Yeah, sure..that's what I said.

Uh, yea. It is.

Look, GV folks keep bringing up national titles that were won over 10 years ago. I give props to those teams, but the past is the past. It isn't that we haven't figured it out. We don't care. That was a different time, different rules, different land scape, etc. etc. Seems you have to keep pointing back then to find relevance. If we win a Natty...great! If we don't, oh well. The only thing we can judge is Ferris vs GV, on the field, man-to-man and coach-to-coach in the present era.

And right now TA and Ferris is whoopin' dat a$$.

We had to deal with it for years, now it's your turn.

[DawgUp]

Uuuuhhh boooyyy. We don't care about YOUR national titles from 13 or whatever years ago. And yeah, if we win a National Championship, that will be great. I'm not going to diminish what our kids accomplished if they come up short.

So I take it in your world our team was a failure last year because they came up 2 points short against a team that was considered the top team in the nation.

[bigmrg74]

Uuuuhhh boooyyy. We don't care about YOUR national titles from 13 or whatever years ago. And yeah, if we win a National Championship, that will be great. I'm not going to diminish what our kids accomplished if they come up short.

So I take it in your world our team was a failure last year because they came up 2 points short against a team that was considered the top team in the nation.

If? Half the reason why most of the GVSU fans are upset is that they expect National Championships. You get that first one and you wanna go back every year.

[FSUBulldog27]

What I think all you GVSU fans are missing is that you are also getting out recruited. For decades you had the cream of the crop...but since TA arrived he has outworked GV. Look at the talent on the field today. Our back up QB was better than your starter QB. Say what you want about Tony but he is out working you. You used to have the Harlon Hill contenders year after year but this decade not a sniff. JVL wasn;t good enough for GV...Maybe it is coaching but inferior talent to Ferris could be your undoing year after year. Food for thought while you are wishing for a magic 2020 season.

[DawgUp]

If? Half the reason why most of the GVSU fans are upset is that they expect National Championships. You get that first one and you wanna go back every year.

I hear what you're saying brgmrg, but yes..."if". No guarantees. It's cool to want to go back, but to pound your chest and shout "we expect NCs year in and year out" just because you won some 13 years ago...especially at the D2 level..unrealistic.

[BulldogFanatic]

What I think all you GVSU fans are missing is that you are also getting out recruited. For decades you had the cream of the crop...but since TA arrived he has outworked GV. Look at the talent on the field today. Our back up QB was better than your starter QB. Say what you want about Tony but he is out working you. You used to have the Harlon Hill contenders year after year but this decade not a sniff. JVL wasn;t good enough for GV...Maybe it is coaching but inferior talent to Ferris could be your undoing year after year. Food for thought while you are wishing for a magic 2020 season.

It's more than just recruiting. Coach Jeff Pierce had a great 2011 class come in that included JVL and several other key players that helped the start of the turnaround. The talent was there, and just needed someone to bring the best out of them. That's where TA's coaching style comes in. Like you said, when he can have a backup quarterback beat a ranked team, it's got a lot to do with the coaches. MM and his crew are being outcoached.

[MrsThortonMelon]

After getting beat by Ashland earlier in the year I posted and told Laker fans that we will always be disappointed in teams coached by Matt Mitchell but the sun will come up tomorrow. I would like other Laker fans to take a look at our top 3 men's sports programs at GV Football, Basketball and Baseball. Look at our successes in the regular and post season have been. Then take a look at the top 3 women' team sports Basketball, Softball and Soccer. I think you will be surprised to see the success the women have had vs the men. The athletic department at Grand Valley demands success in the women's sports but accepts mediocrity in the men's programs. The past success of the Football Team on the national level fueled the growth of facilities for all of our programs in the past 15 years. Alumni and friends of GV have opened their wallets but are not willing to be as generous now with the lack of success in the Matt Mitchell era. I no longer purchase 4 season tickets, an Irwin Gold Lot parking pass, raffle tickets at the games, tickets to the Spring Game cash draw, no donations to Lubbers Athletic Facilities Foundation and no new GV wearing apparel. In my correspondence with Keri Becker this past spring brought a response that our football team always has the potential to have a special year. Here is hoping 2020 is that special year.

How sad for you to base your giving to young people to be based on how well a head coach and a team perform according to your standards. Good thing that GVSU seems to have hundreds of other donors that do not think and act the way you do. Enjoy your old gear and watching the game on your internet connected TV while the rest of enjoy the game in person. PS, we don't miss you at all, looks like the lots are filled, the seats are sold and the Irwin club is better than ever. Anchor up!

[MrsThortonMelon]

No doubt Ferris out played GVSU today..you cant make 5 turnovers and expect to beat the number 2 team in the country. Hell you are lucky to win any game with 5 turnovers. A 5 point loss given the way GVSU played should make for a fun discussion should they meet in the post season this year. Lots of thing have to fall to have that happen for sure, but nice game Bulldogs...

[KleShreen]

Uuuuhhh boooyyy. We don't care about YOUR national titles from 13 or whatever years ago. And yeah, if we win a National Championship, that will be great. I'm not going to diminish what our kids accomplished if they come up short.

So I take it in your world our team was a failure last year because they came up 2 points short against a team that was considered the top team in the nation.

Yes, absolutely. That's how sports works.

[KleShreen]

What I think all you GVSU fans are missing is that you are also getting out recruited. For decades you had the cream of the crop...but since TA arrived he has outworked GV. Look at the talent on the field today. Our back up QB was better than your starter QB. Say what you want about Tony but he is out working you. You used to have the Harlon Hill contenders year after year but this decade not a sniff. JVL wasn;t good enough for GV...Maybe it is coaching but inferior talent to Ferris could be your undoing year after year. Food for thought while you are wishing for a magic 2020 season.

It's a lot easier to recruit when academic performance has no basis for who you recruit.

[Irishlaker]

It's more than just recruiting. Coach Jeff Pierce had a great 2011 class come in that included JVL and several other key players that helped the start of the turnaround. The talent was there, and just needed someone to bring the best out of them. That's where TA's coaching style comes in. Like you said, when he can have a backup quarterback beat a ranked team, it's got a lot to do with the coaches. MM and his crew are being outcoached.

THIS is where we are getting outworked.

Do we need to get better at QB? Perhaps. On the whole, I contend that we absolutely have the talent to be competitive nationally and to make the rivalry with you guys epic. We are consistently not doing enough with that talent. Development, discipline, and scheme are all lacking. Our offense is consistently predictable and unimaginative. That will work seven or eight times per year for us. The balance of the time we will face teams with good athletes, paired with coaching that puts their D in the right places to stop us. When faced with those opponents, we do little to nothing to leverage what the D gives, create confusion, cause mismatches, or provide schematic advantages. We just run the same six plays and figure they'll work sooner or later. And heaven forbid we ever make adjustments in-game. We consistently see little to none of that.

While I think our D can always do more/get better, in general they have been more than serviceable over the past several seasons. Increasingly in the last three or four years, they have been asked to shoulder more than their share of the burden. It's not a sustainable model, particularly against good teams. You HAVE to be able to score points and consistently put opponents under duress. Our offense has, on a more and more frequent basis, not done that. And it has started to manifest itself against middle-of-the-road teams...look at the games we had in the second half this year that shouldn't have been games. Defenses may win championships, but offenses put games away. We haven't performed offensively in a manner that can put games away in quite a while.

I genuinely believe that we could have won that game yesterday with the guys we had out there. We got out-coached.

[Redwing]

THIS is where we are getting outworked.

Do we need to get better at QB? Perhaps. On the whole, I contend that we absolutely have the talent to be competitive nationally and to make the rivalry with you guys epic. We are consistently not doing enough with that talent. Development, discipline, and scheme are all lacking. Our offense is consistently predictable and unimaginative. That will work seven or eight times per year for us. The balance of the time we will face teams with good athletes, paired with coaching that puts their D in the right places to stop us. When faced with those opponents, we do little to nothing to leverage what the D gives, create confusion, cause mismatches, or provide schematic advantages. We just run the same six plays and figure they'll work sooner or later. And heaven forbid we ever make adjustments in-game. We consistently see little to none of that.

While I think our D can always do more/get better, in general they have been more than serviceable over the past several seasons. Increasingly in the last three or four years, they have been asked to shoulder more than their share of the burden. It's not a sustainable model, particularly against good teams. You HAVE to be able to score points and consistently put opponents under duress. Our offense has, on a more and more frequent basis, not done that. And it has started to manifest itself against middle-of-the-road teams...look at the games we had in the second half this year that shouldn't have been games. Defenses may win championships, but offenses put games away. We haven't performed offensively in a manner that can put games away in quite a while.

I genuinely believe that we could have won that game yesterday with the guys we had out there. We got out-coached.

So GV got outcoached yesterday? I just rewatched the game, and I didn't see much outcoaching. I did question some O playcalling and yes I think it needs changes. If that's what you're calling outcoached, then ok I guess. AND I'm not sure who/how to correct it.. but yup, it needs something. But I saw numerous issues on the Ferris side of the ball as well. Trust me, I agree that there are issues with GV, but every team has them. I do wonder how different that game might have been if the Flea flicker pass would have been called complete or a facemask was called on that one fumble by Cole. (Trust me, there were things in GV's control too, but I'm still wondering about those 2... among other "if onlies.") And that 52 yarder was a killer though. Not sure as to who blew what coverage, but I know our corners were fighting cramps for some reason... I guess for those guys, you can lead em to water but can't make em drink. :-(

As for recruiting... I'm not sure GV has lost many to Ferris or like some say lately... to Dport. GV can't go after some of them. I suspect I might miss a few, but I don't see a ton of kids that get offers from both that wind up at Ferris. If you know of them, feel free to list them.

And, since I'm a homer, I'd love to get another shot at the doggies this year. We may have lost a couple guys yesterday, but the dogs showed they are beatable.

[KleShreen]

So GV got outcoached yesterday? I just rewatched the game, and I didn't see much outcoaching. I did question some O playcalling and yes I think it needs changes. If that's what you're calling outcoached, then ok I guess. AND I'm not sure who/how to correct it.. but yup, it needs something. But I saw numerous issues on the Ferris side of the ball as well. Trust me, I agree that there are issues with GV, but every team has them. I do wonder how different that game might have been if the Flea flicker pass would have been called complete or a facemask was called on that one fumble by Cole. (Trust me, there were things in GV's control too, but I'm still wondering about those 2... among other "if onlies.") And that 52 yarder was a killer though. Not sure as to who blew what coverage, but I know our corners were fighting cramps for some reason... I guess for those guys, you can lead em to water but can't make em drink. :-(

As for recruiting... I'm not sure GV has lost many to Ferris or like some say lately... to Dport. GV can't go after some of them. I suspect I might miss a few, but I don't see a ton of kids that get offers from both that wind up at Ferris. If you know of them, feel free to list them.

And, since I'm a homer, I'd love to get another shot at the doggies this year. We may have lost a couple guys yesterday, but the dogs showed they are beatable.

I don't think Ferris or GV are losing anyone to Davenport...lol.

[boyblue]

Man, you guys play rough. I enjoyed reading this post, it made me realize that we all take this thing a bit too serious. I'm over on the GSC forum where a few of our faithful are unhappy with our first year HC who has done nothing but win. We've been struggling a bit (meaning we're winning by lees than we expect) so some of us are unhappy. I believe everyone in D2 respects GV and your amazing years of consistent excellence, but you guys get so upset at Ferris, you put them down and continually remind them that they haven't won the big one. So they in turn rub their dominance in your faces, neither of you give the other a chance to complement the other. We're talking about two great teams with really good talent (D1 type talent) and you both sound like you're duds.

That was an impressive win by Ferris, especially with a back up QB but it was also an impressive loss by GV, your team played their butts off to even keep it close. It seems MM is great in all areas except offensive scheming. Rather than throw him to the wolves (pun intended), why not press for the hire of an up and coming OC. Not to toot our horn but VSU's greater success has come from our assistants than our head coaches. Recognize any of these guys, Dana Holgorsen, Will Muschamp, Mike Leach, Guy Morriss, Kirby Smart, they all served as a coordinator or position coach at VSU. You guys have the money, there are a half dozen impressive offences in D2 (Ferris being one of them), why not hire one of those OC's?

[DawgUp]

It's a lot easier to recruit when academic performance has no basis for who you recruit.

Any more excuses in that bag you want to pull out?