Ashland To the GMAC Must Happen

[MrsThortonMelon]

One thing what would be interesting is if Ashland leaves the GLIAC would that force the admin at GVSU to push for moving up a level? Word is that the new President already has expressed her desire to be on the bigger stage and set expectations higher. As long as she finds the check book to do it could be very interesting. Then what happens with the rest of the GLIAC? Not saying it will happen but it is fun to ponder and discuss.

[purduefan11]

One thing what would be interesting is if Ashland leaves the GLIAC would that force the admin at GVSU to push for moving up a level? Word is that the new President already has expressed her desire to be on the bigger stage and set expectations higher. As long as she finds the check book to do it could be very interesting. Then what happens with the rest of the GLIAC? Not saying it will happen but it is fun to ponder and discuss.

I see the GLIAC/GMAC situation as part of a larger shift among the conferences in this area. I think the GMAC is prime to add Ashland, Uindy, Notre Dame, and Urbana. This would really solidify them as a conference, especially as a football conference. In response to that, I see a few moves. First, the GLIAC goes to the NAIA within Michigan to get football schools (Lawrence Tech, Concordia-Ann Arbor, etc) and they add a non-football Lewis from the GLVC (also may take a swing at bringing Hillsdale back, but that is unlikely). The GLVC brings back Kentucky Wesleyan (maybe TNU too?) and looks to add more within the Missouri/Illinois area, probably from the NAIA or D3 schools around there. The MEC takes on the WV D2 independents as well as Alderson Broaddus and Ohio Valley from the GMAC. To me, this gives each conference a strong base and settles the realignment debate for awhile.

As for GVSU moving on up, I could totally see it happening. I would be sad to see them go though, and I am not entirely sure they will. They seem to like the North Dakota State argument, stay on the level your are on and be dominant as opposed to moving up and getting trashed for a few years till your programs adjust to new competition.

[mtsax305]

I don't think GV has anything to gain by moving up a level without other area schools moving up too. The closest FCS conferences aren't really that close. The MAC is an obvious FBS solution, but the costs of moving up along with facility upgrades would be prohibitive. The real question is do you move up to be a participant in D1 or do you stay and compete for championships in D2. Also, moving up would likely kill any championship aspirations of other sports since they have to compete with the entirety of D1. Until the divisional makeup of the NCAA changes, moving up makes no sense.

[Brandon]

I see the GLIAC/GMAC situation as part of a larger shift among the conferences in this area. I think the GMAC is prime to add Ashland, Uindy, Notre Dame, and Urbana. This would really solidify them as a conference, especially as a football conference. In response to that, I see a few moves. First, the GLIAC goes to the NAIA within Michigan to get football schools (Lawrence Tech, Concordia-Ann Arbor, etc) and they add a non-football Lewis from the GLVC (also may take a swing at bringing Hillsdale back, but that is unlikely). The GLVC brings back Kentucky Wesleyan (maybe TNU too?) and looks to add more within the Missouri/Illinois area, probably from the NAIA or D3 schools around there. The MEC takes on the WV D2 independents as well as Alderson Broaddus and Ohio Valley from the GMAC. To me, this gives each conference a strong base and settles the realignment debate for awhile.

As for GVSU moving on up, I could totally see it happening. I would be sad to see them go though, and I am not entirely sure they will. They seem to like the North Dakota State argument, stay on the level your are on and be dominant as opposed to moving up and getting trashed for a few years till your programs adjust to new competition.

No

[Brandon]

I don't think GV has anything to gain by moving up a level without other area schools moving up too. The closest FCS conferences aren't really that close. The MAC is an obvious FBS solution, but the costs of moving up along with facility upgrades would be prohibitive. The real question is do you move up to be a participant in D1 or do you stay and compete for championships in D2. Also, moving up would likely kill any championship aspirations of other sports since they have to compete with the entirety of D1. Until the divisional makeup of the NCAA changes, moving up makes no sense.

The difficulty is a bunch of schools getting an invite along with the quality of the conference giving that invite.

[MrAllendale616]

One thing what would be interesting is if Ashland leaves the GLIAC would that force the admin at GVSU to push for moving up a level? Word is that the new President already has expressed her desire to be on the bigger stage and set expectations higher. As long as she finds the check book to do it could be very interesting. Then what happens with the rest of the GLIAC? Not saying it will happen but it is fun to ponder and discuss.

Moving up is a horrible idea and I'd be really upset if we did. We've gotta good thing going as a perennial d2 powerhouse in a lot of sports. Moving up is gonna raise tuition, force us to upgrade every facility except baseball, and either leave us in a FCS conference that's a bad geographic fit or the MAC where we'll realistically not have much success. I would really like to see us add d1 hockey instead. The WCHA is possibly gonna kick out Alaska Fairbanks, Alaska Anchorage, and Alabama Huntsville, putting us in a great position to slide in and play MTU, NMU, LSSU, and Ferris every year.

[BeachinLaker]

One thing what would be interesting is if Ashland leaves the GLIAC would that force the admin at GVSU to push for moving up a level? Word is that the new President already has expressed her desire to be on the bigger stage and set expectations higher. As long as she finds the check book to do it could be very interesting. Then what happens with the rest of the GLIAC? Not saying it will happen but it is fun to ponder and discuss.

To be completely honest with you, I would not at all be surprised if this materialized. She is not part of the old guard and has big plans for the university on the national stage. She is all about improving visibility for the university and its alumni and quite honestly, moving up a level would contribute to that. As it stands now, GVSU is not a known brand nationally beyond a small group of in-the-know D2 fans. We can be as dominant as we want in Division II by piling up the Director's Cup trophies, but it's not going to increase our visibility in Ohio and Illinois, let alone California, Washington, Colorado, etc. However, competing with the large regional universities of Indiana, Illinois, Ohio, Iowa, and the Dakotas would get our name out there much more than competing against the likes of Davenport, Northwood, Hillsdale, Ferris State, Saginaw Valley, etc.

As for MrAllendale's statement on tuition...One of the ideas in place is to offset future costs with increased opportunities for post-graduate professional education so that tuition for undergraduate and graduate students don't need to rise. Some of the top universities in the country have post-graduate professional education programs where you can take a few classes and gain a certification in certain aspects of your field of work. It is something that is on the rise with the increased demand for very specific education. As for the MAC (we wouldn't move up to that level, but for the sake of being devil's advocate), the Michigan directionals are losing ground and are all officially smaller than GVSU now. Grand Valley has become the more desirable regional university in the state due to its proximity to Grand Rapids and the lakeshore. I have no doubt that in time (if they did move up to that level) they would compete. But, the only route they can go is D1 in all sports and FCS in football - both for affordability and I believe NCAA rules mandate that.

I'm not saying this will happen. I just would not be surprised if it did in the not too distant future.

[MrsThortonMelon]

To be completely honest with you, I would not at all be surprised if this materialized. She is not part of the old guard and has big plans for the university on the national stage. She is all about improving visibility for the university and its alumni and quite honestly, moving up a level would contribute to that. As it stands now, GVSU is not a known brand nationally beyond a small group of in-the-know D2 fans. We can be as dominant as we want in Division II by piling up the Director's Cup trophies, but it's not going to increase our visibility in Ohio and Illinois, let alone California, Washington, Colorado, etc. However, competing with the large regional universities of Indiana, Illinois, Ohio, Iowa, and the Dakotas would get our name out there much more than competing against the likes of Davenport, Northwood, Hillsdale, Ferris State, Saginaw Valley, etc.

As for MrAllendale's statement on tuition...One of the ideas in place is to offset future costs with increased opportunities for post-graduate professional education so that tuition for undergraduate and graduate students don't need to rise. Some of the top universities in the country have post-graduate professional education programs where you can take a few classes and gain a certification in certain aspects of your field of work. It is something that is on the rise with the increased demand for very specific education. As for the MAC (we wouldn't move up to that level, but for the sake of being devil's advocate), the Michigan directionals are losing ground and are all officially smaller than GVSU now. Grand Valley has become the more desirable regional university in the state due to its proximity to Grand Rapids and the lakeshore. I have no doubt that in time (if they did move up to that level) they would compete. But, the only route they can go is D1 in all sports and FCS in football - both for affordability and I believe NCAA rules mandate that.

I'm not saying this will happen. I just would not be surprised if it did in the not too distant future.

I agree with all of your statement...GVSU is going to go in a different direction with their grad programs and online programs as well...Philly has already put that into the works and I have no doubt that is why she was hired. As for FCS I think it could work if someone finds a very large bag of cash sitting around. Our facilites in track, soccer, baseball, tennis and lacrosse are fine...basketball, swimming and diving and football would need some upgrades. Football might be as simple as building more seats around the end zones and filling it in so to speak....Basketball I am not so sure...same with Swimming...I dont know enough about those to be honest. One way to fund this is to cut the non rev sports back..way back..I hate that idea but as we all know its about dollars not sense so to speak. I guess we will know soon enough. With in the football program they raised the money for much of the locker room upgrades we will see how they do it for the other sports should this take place. And AGAIN...I am not saying this will or should happen, just something fun to kick around.

[EastStroud13]

You're not wrong, BUT that same coach at Edinboro just stepped down from his position, likely caused by internal pressure. There has to be full program buy-in for the "play the best to be the best" strategy to work and not every program has that.

[mtsax305]

Institutionally, GV would fit with the Missouri Valley conference. The problem lies with the travel costs, which would be a substantial increase over the GLIAC or even the MAC. The Pioneer League has geographically closer schools, but I'm not sure if they would accept a medium-large state-funded school like GV. Any move up for any Michigan school would be more easily justified if the MAC were an FCS conference. But again, you relegate any non-football sport to participant status in D1 for the chance for football to win a championship. Your previous championship winning teams could compete with other mid-majors, but would likely get waxed at the next level (Duke DESTROYED D2 winning Ferris 132-48 in basketball for example).

I remember reading the Selgo defense of staying in D2 when I was still a student at Wayne and I thought it was a bs argument. I was fuming when I did a bit of research and found that Wayne considered going back to the MAC (which they had founded way back when) in the early 2000's. I thought nothing would be cooler than throwing the biggest GLIAC schools in the mix with other D1 schools. But in the current state of the NCAA, moving up to FCS would likely be a death sentence for non-football sports and moving to FBS would all but guarantee no sport wins a championship again. So it depends on what the agenda of your department is. Is the program for advertising and winning some games or is it for winning championships?

MrAllendale's idea of adding D1 hockey is something GV should consider doing. Hopefully Wayne designs their new arena to allow for the same.

[BillyGV]

Hey Beachin, I live in Florida and every HS coach knows GV football down here - you would be surprised how many schools know GV football across the country - on another note our track and x-country teams already compete against many D1 schools - oh, swimming does compete against MAC schools too

[Thelakerman]

One thing what would be interesting is if Ashland leaves the GLIAC would that force the admin at GVSU to push for moving up a level? Word is that the new President already has expressed her desire to be on the bigger stage and set expectations higher. As long as she finds the check book to do it could be very interesting. Then what happens with the rest of the GLIAC? Not saying it will happen but it is fun to ponder and discuss.

[BeachinLaker]

[eagler927]

The opportunities were better when the Ashland team was better.

Ashland lost to Findlay 53-18. Findlay was third in the GMAC. You beat Grand Valley. They finished a game behind you. What is your thought process that leads you to believe you'd finish higher in the GMAC?

Brandon, I don't think this year's Ashland team would have competed for the GMAC this season. As myself and other AU posters have pointed out, the offense was very average, and the defense was banged up and not up to its normal standards. I think a little too much emphasis is being put on the Findlay loss. Credit to the Oilers, they beat our ass! But teams sometimes lay a turd and that's what Ashland did on that Saturday.

I appreciate all the posters from different schools giving their thoughts on this topic. A lot of unbiased posts that were well thought out. Then there's Kle who acts like a little kid! Dude, grow up! Some of us are just realistic. GVSU most years is going to get a playoff berth. Does anyone see the Bulldogs freight train slowing down anytime soon? So somehow according to you Ashland would be wimps for seeing the handwriting on the wall and moving to a conference and a region where you have a better shot at making the playoffs? Total BS! If you ask me, making the playoffs is all that matters. Will anyone care 10 years from now if Tiffin made the playoffs playing a weak non conference schedule and they came from the GMAC? No! Bottom line they made the playoffs. They are in. Just like others have pointed out, they have an opportunity to prove themselves in the post season, just like other GMAC teams have done the past few years. Do you realize how hard it is to make the playoffs when you are Ashland and you schedule non conference games like Indy or IUP? I get it, GVSU has played tough non conference teams just like Ashland.

My point is AU is almost in a must win situation in these non conference games against ranked opponents. Take this year, you lose to Indy, are you going to sweep GVSU and FSU? Highly unlikely. Even if you split, you pretty much have to sweep the rest of the conference to get a bid at 9-2. Not easy to do when someone like Wayne St. has a big season did this year. As we saw with GVSU this year, lose a tough game against the Eagles, lose to FSU, then get upset by Wayne St. and you're out. 8-3, good enough to get in when you are in other conferences but obviously not good enough if you are playing in the GLIAC. And this is the point Kle and others ignore, Region 3 is flat out loaded, and the fact that Region 1 is softer is plenty of incentive for Ashland to make a move.

As for our buddy Lefty from ODU, look my talk about the GMAC is not a shot at ODU, Findlay, Tiffin, or Hillsdale. It's the fact that FSU and GVSU are going to win 9-11 games a year virtually every year. I get it the bottom half of the GLIAC isn't very good. It's the top two and right now in particular the Bulldogs that make life hard for AU to make the playoffs. While ODU, Tiffin, Findlay, etc. are solid programs, they aren't Ferris or GVSU. If AU can get back to the level they showed for several years prior to 2018, they would have a decent chance to make the playoffs in the GLIAC but an even better chance to make the postseason in the GMAC. Thus it's time for AU to make the move.

[KleShreen]

To be clear, his argument was made quite some time ago. Since then, GVSU has hired a new AD, hired a new President, built better facilities

GV got a remodeled football center...nothing else has changed since the turf building got built.

The venues for all of the "revenue" sports are atrocious. The football stadium would be bottom 1/3rd of FCS. The basketball/volleyball arena hasn't been touched in decades besides a couple new scoreboards. The baseball/softball fields are alright, but don't have lights or synthetic surfaces like they probably should. The T&F/LAX facility is the only one we have that is D1 quality, really.