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  • #16
    Originally posted by Jim McElwain View Post
    Hearing word Northwood is definitely leaving. Announcement either today or next week. Not good for the GLIAC.
    Links or Sources?

    Comment


    • #17
      Some schools/leagues will post ahead of time that a big announcement is coming. Others will just make the announcement. I'm not saying that any such announcement is forthcoming but, if there is, there wouldn't necessarily be a link. Sources? If someone/anyone actually had a source they wouldn't have any for long if they disclosed who they are.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by UFOILERFAN View Post

        Is Tony on vacation or just not talking.
        MAYBE, Jake Riepma knows something as he is the GLIAC Columnist

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Uindy18 View Post
          Cannot imagine this is true. Northwood would be spending a ton on travel to play a GMAC schedule in every sport. I realize being the only private school in the conference is not ideal, but it seems that they would be better off staying in the GLIAC and pushing for the conference to add Madonna, Siena Heights, Lawrence Tech, or Concordia- Ann Arbor.
          *Davenport has joined the chat*
          Cal U (Pa.) Class of 2014

          Comment


          • #20
            Sorry, Gang. I don't have any specific, inside knowledge. I don't work for the GLIAC, and I don't know anyone in the league office the way I did in years past. I will say that I have some contacts who are "familiar with the situation", and rumblings of this have been popping up for a bit now. I can't verify with any certainty the viability or potential of this happening, but through my back channels I would tend to take a "where there is smoke, there is fire" stance. I agree that Jake might be our best bet for real, up-close information. However, given the ties he has to Northwood I don't know that he would be in a position to share anything...nor would I (if I knew him) put him on the spot and make that ask...wouldn't be remotely fair to him.

            From my bird-brained perspective, I would look at a few things:

            - For starters, there is no doubt that the premise of the GMAC being comprised of smaller, private, "like-minded" institutions is a fit for Northwood. In that same vain, I would hazard to guess that Hillsdale might be one of the stronger proponents/recruiters of Northwood, as it would give them a travel-partner and their first in-state league mate.
            - Speaking of travel, I don't know that I see a major advantage/disadvantage for Northwood here. I would tend to say this move at present is more of a negative in total, but I'm not sure I would call it a glaring one. Tech, Northern, Parkside and PNW are replaced as long trips by OVU, Trevecca, KWC. Northwood does have a good core of opponents (SV, FSU, GV, DU, Wayne) that are two-hours and change (or less), and the core trip for them would now move to more of a three-to-four our range for many of them. I think, in general, Northwood becomes an outpost and the travel does seem a bit worse, but as the GMAC quietly continues its progression toward a more "Ohio-centric" footprint there could be a time in the future where 4.5 hours is the longest trip Northwood has. Given that the U.P. schools aren't going anywhere, there doesn't seem to be a scenario where that is the case in the GLIAC.
            - Competitively, I don't know for sure what the advantage would be. Northwood has been, in general, a mid-pack GLIAC member for a while. I could be wrong, but I would wager that they would be much the same in the GMAC. Furthermore, I would argue that they'll have a much better time recruiting as a GLIAC member than as a GMAC member. They're primary base is always going to be in the State of Michigan, and recruits will want to play against some of the bigger (GLIAC) schools they know, and play at places where their parents and friends can attend. That becomes decidedly more difficult as a GMAC outpost. Perhaps Northwood's intent is to recruit more regionally/nationally or in Ohio? Don't know, but unless they start to win a bunch more as a GMAC member I would argue that their recruiting would be slightly more difficult vs. what they have at present. I'm not sure I buy the premise that they will be markedly more competitive in the GMAC.
            - Politically, there could be a ton of action. I'm not in Northwood's board rooms, and don't know what has or hasn't happened when they have been in GLIAC meetings or whatever. If they now feel like they need to make a change, then that could be driving things as much or more than anything else.


            Like I wrote earlier, I don't have any specific knowledge of things. If it does happen, I would then agree with ctrabs that Davenport might not be far behind. That's an entirely separate discussion.

            Another entirely separate discussion is more of a crystal ball talk around what the NCAA is even going to look like in the years to come. My hunch is that the roster of smaller institutions we have seen close their doors is far from finished/complete. In addition, if/when the P5 break away there is going to be a complete upheaval to the NCAA, how it is structured, how it is funded, etc. Add in the full visibility of COVID's impact, how NIL is going to work, and I wonder if we aren't on the brink of a period of years where we witness unprecedented change to the landscape of college athletics.

            I tend to think there is a whole bunch of "who knows" is in front of us...

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Tony Nicolette View Post
              Sorry, Gang. I don't have any specific, inside knowledge. I don't work for the GLIAC, and I don't know anyone in the league office the way I did in years past. I will say that I have some contacts who are "familiar with the situation", and rumblings of this have been popping up for a bit now. I can't verify with any certainty the viability or potential of this happening, but through my back channels I would tend to take a "where there is smoke, there is fire" stance. I agree that Jake might be our best bet for real, up-close information. However, given the ties he has to Northwood I don't know that he would be in a position to share anything...nor would I (if I knew him) put him on the spot and make that ask...wouldn't be remotely fair to him.

              From my bird-brained perspective, I would look at a few things:

              - For starters, there is no doubt that the premise of the GMAC being comprised of smaller, private, "like-minded" institutions is a fit for Northwood. In that same vain, I would hazard to guess that Hillsdale might be one of the stronger proponents/recruiters of Northwood, as it would give them a travel-partner and their first in-state league mate.
              - Speaking of travel, I don't know that I see a major advantage/disadvantage for Northwood here. I would tend to say this move at present is more of a negative in total, but I'm not sure I would call it a glaring one. Tech, Northern, Parkside and PNW are replaced as long trips by OVU, Trevecca, KWC. Northwood does have a good core of opponents (SV, FSU, GV, DU, Wayne) that are two-hours and change (or less), and the core trip for them would now move to more of a three-to-four our range for many of them. I think, in general, Northwood becomes an outpost and the travel does seem a bit worse, but as the GMAC quietly continues its progression toward a more "Ohio-centric" footprint there could be a time in the future where 4.5 hours is the longest trip Northwood has. Given that the U.P. schools aren't going anywhere, there doesn't seem to be a scenario where that is the case in the GLIAC.
              - Competitively, I don't know for sure what the advantage would be. Northwood has been, in general, a mid-pack GLIAC member for a while. I could be wrong, but I would wager that they would be much the same in the GMAC. Furthermore, I would argue that they'll have a much better time recruiting as a GLIAC member than as a GMAC member. They're primary base is always going to be in the State of Michigan, and recruits will want to play against some of the bigger (GLIAC) schools they know, and play at places where their parents and friends can attend. That becomes decidedly more difficult as a GMAC outpost. Perhaps Northwood's intent is to recruit more regionally/nationally or in Ohio? Don't know, but unless they start to win a bunch more as a GMAC member I would argue that their recruiting would be slightly more difficult vs. what they have at present. I'm not sure I buy the premise that they will be markedly more competitive in the GMAC.
              - Politically, there could be a ton of action. I'm not in Northwood's board rooms, and don't know what has or hasn't happened when they have been in GLIAC meetings or whatever. If they now feel like they need to make a change, then that could be driving things as much or more than anything else.


              Like I wrote earlier, I don't have any specific knowledge of things. If it does happen, I would then agree with ctrabs that Davenport might not be far behind. That's an entirely separate discussion.

              Another entirely separate discussion is more of a crystal ball talk around what the NCAA is even going to look like in the years to come. My hunch is that the roster of smaller institutions we have seen close their doors is far from finished/complete. In addition, if/when the P5 break away there is going to be a complete upheaval to the NCAA, how it is structured, how it is funded, etc. Add in the full visibility of COVID's impact, how NIL is going to work, and I wonder if we aren't on the brink of a period of years where we witness unprecedented change to the landscape of college athletics.

              I tend to think there is a whole bunch of "who knows" is in front of us...
              Tony does a good job of spelling out the "For" side of the Northwood to the GMAC debate. I would like to spell out the "Against" side.

              1. Travel: Moving to a GMAC schedule would be not bad for Northwood if you consider the Ohio schools. The problem is KWC and TNU. They are essentially the GMAC version of the UP schools on the GLIAC. It trades one problem for another, and in the age of tightened COVID budgets, I cannot imagine the math works out better for Northwood.

              2. Competition: Northwood fits well in either, I do not see a big advantage in moving to the GMAC for that reason.

              3. "Liked-Mindedness": I know this always gets talked about with private or public schools moving to one conference or another. I know it is a factor, but I am not sure how much it matters in comparison to things like entry fees and travel costs across sports. Seems like NU would be in a better place to stay and push for the conference to grow the private school corner of the conference with some NAIA Michigan schools like Lawrence Tech, Madonna, Concordia-Ann Arbor, and Siena Heights. Additionally the addition of Lewis from the GLVC could help this problem and they would pair nicely with Purdue-NW and UW-Parkside on the non-football part of the conference.

              4. Politics: This is a rough area for me. The discussions that go in within schools and conferences are so difficult to understand and no one really knows what is going on in those meetings. I would take anyone saying they have a "source" with a grain of salt, as it is usually just someone who thinks their idea is good and creates a "source" to uphold their idea.

              Thank you Tony for a well thought out post, and I am anxious to see what the GLIAC does in the membership department in the future.

              Comment


              • #22
                Thanks, Tony, for the post. Jake, you're off the hook and we don't expect you to say anything that would get you in trouble. As stated, the Northwood thing comes up often and unless they issue a press release confirming a move I am not believing this will happen.

                Comment


                • #23

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                  • #24
                    Cannot say I blame her. No conference should base all their decisions on one sport. They have to take into account their whole conference (all members who play all sports, not just football schools). I am really interested in how much the public/private debates and/or old bad blood matter. Old bad blood was one of the reasons people accredited to Notre Dame College not joining the GMAC, but I cannot see how a school or conference would surrender any amount of money in travel savings in the name of "we got our feelings hurt years ago" or whatever.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by GLIAC Fan View Post
                      The sources that told me N-wood is leaving by 2023 are a current GMAC football coach and a current GMAC AD, and not from the same schools.
                      Same here, I wonder if we have head from the same persons, or different FB coach/AD, I think its been valid for awhile

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Moves like these are almost always about getting away from powerful teams like GV and now Ferris State and trying to find an easier path to the playoffs.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Brandon View Post
                          Moves like these are almost always about getting away from powerful teams like GV and now Ferris State and trying to find an easier path to the playoffs.
                          Yup. Has been for nearly every member that has left over the last decade. They move to a weaker conference and conveniently start making the football playoffs every year.
                          2021 D2Football Fantasy Champion

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Brandon View Post
                            Moves like these are almost always about getting away from powerful teams like GV and now Ferris State and trying to find an easier path to the playoffs.
                            I will agree with this but only to a certain degree. I think it depends on each institution. I feel Brandon's point is a major reason, but there is also financial incentives. Some schools like the GVSU and Ferris States have plenty of money to through around. Finances don't matter to them. I know East Stroudsburg received some money to play Ferris a couple years ago. East Stroudsburg could NEVER pay for a team to come play them. That is the disparity with D-2, and I am not complaining. It is the reality. There are some schools that have plenty of resources, and get a steak dinner on away trips while others that get a sandwich, bag of chips, and a bottle of water in a brown paper bag for their away games. If financially strapped schools can save money by being in a tighter geographic conference they will most likely jump at that opportunity, (but I agree they will also weigh the advantages of what the competition level will be too).

                            When AB left the GMAC for the MEC it wasn't because they were running from any superior program. It was because they would benefit significantly financially from the move.

                            Why did some of the GMAC schools leave the GLIAC? I'm sure it was more of what Brandon stated against the financial situation, although I am sure they are saving more money in the GMAC.
                            Last edited by ESU Warrior; 04-07-2021, 10:38 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by ESU Warrior View Post

                              I will agree with this but only to a certain degree. I think it depends on each institution. I feel Brandon's point is a major reason, but there is also financial incentives. Some schools like the GVSU and Ferris States have plenty of money to through around. Finances don't matter to them. I know East Stroudsburg received some money to play Ferris a couple years ago. East Stroudsburg could NEVER pay for a team to come play them. That is the disparity with D-2, and I am not complaining. It is the reality. There are some schools that have plenty of resources, and get a steak dinner on away trips while others that get a sandwich, bag of chips, and a bottle of water in a brown paper bag for their away games. If financially strapped schools can save money by being in a tighter geographic conference they will most likely jump at that opportunity, (but I agree they will also weigh the advantages of what the competition level will be too).

                              When AB left the GMAC for the MEC it wasn't because they were running from and superior program. It was because they would benefit significantly financially from the move.

                              Why did some of the GMAC schools leave the GLIAC? I'm sure it was more of what Brandon stated against the financial situation, although I am sure they are saving more money in the GMAC.
                              I think you hit the nail on the head. Teams want to be competitive across all sports, but end of the day, they gotta keep the lights on first. The future of the GMAC is Ohio-centric, because they have a strong base of similar schools that can lower travel costs and maintain decent competition by playing the schools closest to them in D2. While being beat up by GVSU or Ferris may be frustrating, monetary considerations have much more to do with conference alignments than competition, like-minded schools, or anything else really. Not to say other factors do not matter, but money always comes first (or at least it ought to for many low funding programs).

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Uindy18 View Post

                                I think you hit the nail on the head. Teams want to be competitive across all sports, but end of the day, they gotta keep the lights on first. The future of the GMAC is Ohio-centric, because they have a strong base of similar schools that can lower travel costs and maintain decent competition by playing the schools closest to them in D2. While being beat up by GVSU or Ferris may be frustrating, monetary considerations have much more to do with conference alignments than competition, like-minded schools, or anything else really. Not to say other factors do not matter, but money always comes first (or at least it ought to for many low funding programs).
                                If it was mostly about money, why is it that many schools are paying to leave larger conferences and go to lesser conferences, where travel is longer and more expensive? And why is it that you almost never see any schools clamoring to join more successful and established conferences anymore, unless they are moving from a lower level of competition entirely? Schools are instead leaving established conferences with track records of success to go form their own conferences together. And then when things settle down and that conference has a top dog, the lower schools move again. It's all just shuffling until everyone races far enough to the bottom to get their postseason shots.
                                2021 D2Football Fantasy Champion

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