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  • #76
    Originally posted by Brandon View Post

    I have known about that desire for a long time. A "couple of years" sounded like a new development.
    Yea...It was presented in a manner that it was a new, or at least recent, quote from the NDC AD when it actually came from 2009. I have no doubt that there were discussions about an "All Ohio" DII conference. However that was 13 years ago and a number of the partisipants in those discussions have moved out of the GMAC for greener pastures. Heck, even the GMAC has moved beyond the "All Ohio" model.

    Guess the desire for an All Ohio DII sports conference will never die in the hearts of some posters but it's pretty clear that a number of the key schools in the discussion, and the conference itself, have moved on.

    Looking forward to hearing the same rumors of an All Ohio conference next year!!

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Uindy18 View Post
      I would love to know what the current thought process is for NDC in regards to staying in the MEC over moving over to the GMAC. I know something happened in those early discussions that made NDC not want to be included with the founding GMAC schools, but the world will probably never know what.
      The thought process seems to be that NDC is happy playing in the MEC. I recall a couple of comments from the NDC AD saying how happy they were with the MEC and being a member of the conference.

      There has been a lot of traffic over the years about NDC's supposed desire to move to the GMAC to be one with their Ohio "bretheran." Any number of senarios have been posted from "NDC's move to the GMAC is going to be announces at the upcoming conference meeting" all the way to some sort of "prisoner swap" were the GMAC and MEC had supposedly agreed to swap AB and Ohio Valley for NDC (again, to be announced "any day now"). Seems like all these supposed "heard it from a source" posts have been little more that exercises in a fertile imagination.

      While NDC (or any school for that matter) doesn't generally make comments about their "happiness" in a particular conference, I would say that their staying in the MEC for all these years now speaks volumes about their intent. Sure, somthing may change in the future, but it seems pretty clear that right now and probably for the foreseable future, NDC is staying in the MEC.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

        Guess the desire for an All Ohio DII sports conference will never die in the hearts of some posters but it's pretty clear that a number of the key schools in the discussion, and the conference itself, have moved on.

        Looking forward to hearing the same rumors of an All Ohio conference next year!!
        Pretty sure no one is hanging on to an All-Ohio concept. The article was from 2009 - in the era when the PSAC was PA-only and the WVIAC had a state in its name too. Those days are gone.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

          The thought process seems to be that NDC is happy playing in the MEC. I recall a couple of comments from the NDC AD saying how happy they were with the MEC and being a member of the conference.

          There has been a lot of traffic over the years about NDC's supposed desire to move to the GMAC to be one with their Ohio "bretheran." Any number of senarios have been posted from "NDC's move to the GMAC is going to be announces at the upcoming conference meeting" all the way to some sort of "prisoner swap" were the GMAC and MEC had supposedly agreed to swap AB and Ohio Valley for NDC (again, to be announced "any day now"). Seems like all these supposed "heard it from a source" posts have been little more that exercises in a fertile imagination.

          While NDC (or any school for that matter) doesn't generally make comments about their "happiness" in a particular conference, I would say that their staying in the MEC for all these years now speaks volumes about their intent. Sure, somthing may change in the future, but it seems pretty clear that right now and probably for the foreseable future, NDC is staying in the MEC.
          Fair point. I am not going to claim that they are leaving tomorrow, but I have to think eventually the travel savings math will end up pushing them towards the GMAC in the end. Especially since the addition of Ashland, I think the future of the GMAC is to become the de facto conference of Ohio. NDC is the final outlier. I would bet if a new administration comes in that was uninvolved with the original GMAC founding discussions and if the KWC/TNU side of the GMAC decide to go elsewhere, NDC will eventually move over. Whether that happens tomorrow or a decade from now, who knows? But I think it will happen eventually.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Uindy18 View Post

            Fair point. I am not going to claim that they are leaving tomorrow, but I have to think eventually the travel savings math will end up pushing them towards the GMAC in the end. Especially since the addition of Ashland, I think the future of the GMAC is to become the de facto conference of Ohio. NDC is the final outlier. I would bet if a new administration comes in that was uninvolved with the original GMAC founding discussions and if the KWC/TNU side of the GMAC decide to go elsewhere, NDC will eventually move over. Whether that happens tomorrow or a decade from now, who knows? But I think it will happen eventually.
            Often "forgotten" in the Ohio conference discussion is Central State. If the desire is to become the de facto DII conference of Ohio, I would think there would be some desire to bring them in. Seems like the NDC to the GMAC discussion now centers on travel budget. Sure, there are schools that are close to NDC but as you point out, there are also conference outliers in KWC and TNU. I'd also note that the "other" schools often rumored on this board to be joining the GMAC, UIndy and Northwood, are over 300 miles from NDC so it's not like there are next door travel wise.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

              Often "forgotten" in the Ohio conference discussion is Central State. If the desire is to become the de facto DII conference of Ohio, I would think there would be some desire to bring them in. Seems like the NDC to the GMAC discussion now centers on travel budget. Sure, there are schools that are close to NDC but as you point out, there are also conference outliers in KWC and TNU. I'd also note that the "other" schools often rumored on this board to be joining the GMAC, UIndy and Northwood, are over 300 miles from NDC so it's not like there are next door travel wise.
              Ya, I am familiar with Central State. I just know that being an HBCU in an HBCU conference, they will not really be interested in rejoining (much like Kentucky State in KY). Additionally, Central State really had a messy exit out of the GMAC (large number of rules violations) and doubt they would be invited back.

              I would assume the thought process for NDC moving to the GMAC would be something like this:

              1. Lowered Travel Costs (increased effectiveness in KWC and TNU end up going elsewhere)
              2. Private School in private school conference
              3. Comparable Competition Fit
              4. Either forgiving or forgetting about what issue became the principal issue as to why they left the original GMAC discussions
              Last edited by Uindy18; 04-14-2021, 08:16 AM.

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              • #82
                Question about travel costs
                I was thinking that fuel costs are not a reason to change conferences. However, overnight accommodations are much more significant. Is Concord the only overnight trip for ndc?

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post
                  Question about travel costs
                  I was thinking that fuel costs are not a reason to change conferences. However, overnight accommodations are much more significant. Is Concord the only overnight trip for ndc?
                  I would assume UNC-Pembroke would be an overnight as well.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Uindy18 View Post

                    I would assume UNC-Pembroke would be an overnight as well.
                    I would assume so also. But I note that with the very limited Associate Membership (only football now?), it would be a once every 2 years expense.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Uindy18 View Post

                      Ya, I am familiar with Central State. I just know that being an HBCU in an HBCU conference, they will not really be interested in rejoining (much like Kentucky State in KY). Additionally, Central State really had a messy exit out of the GMAC (large number of rules violations) and doubt they would be invited back.

                      I would assume the thought process for NDC moving to the GMAC would be something like this:

                      1. Lowered Travel Costs (increased effectiveness in KWC and TNU end up going elsewhere)
                      2. Private School in private school conference
                      3. Comparable Competition Fit
                      4. Either forgiving or forgetting about what issue became the principal issue as to why they left the original GMAC discussions
                      Folks have been speculating about KWC and TNU bring "invited to leave" the GMAC for years. As with the speculation about NDC joining the GMAC, it just never amounts to anything. As I said, UIndy and Northwood, while a bit closer than KWC and TNU, are still over 300 miles from NDC.

                      While Central and NDC are clearly different, what they share is being a DII in Ohio. So if people truely want an All Ohio DII conference, they should be in the discussion.. in fact,, if travel distance is such an important factor,, they seem to be an ideal fit.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

                        Folks have been speculating about KWC and TNU bring "invited to leave" the GMAC for years. As with the speculation about NDC joining the GMAC, it just never amounts to anything. As I said, UIndy and Northwood, while a bit closer than KWC and TNU, are still over 300 miles from NDC.

                        While Central and NDC are clearly different, what they share is being a DII in Ohio. So if people truely want an All Ohio DII conference, they should be in the discussion.. in fact,, if travel distance is such an important factor,, they seem to be an ideal fit.
                        KWC and TNU are much like NDC. I think over time they will both find other conferences that work better for them. I think NDC will eventually decide that GMAC will make more sense for them.

                        As for Northwood, the addition is always rumored but makes little to no sense to me.

                        As for Uindy, I would only see them moving over if something happens within the GLVC or if the GMAC adds within Indiana. Right now, Indianapolis is on an island in either conference.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Uindy18 View Post

                          KWC and TNU are much like NDC. I think over time they will both find other conferences that work better for them. I think NDC will eventually decide that GMAC will make more sense for them.

                          As for Northwood, the addition is always rumored but makes little to no sense to me.

                          As for Uindy, I would only see them moving over if something happens within the GLVC or if the GMAC adds within Indiana. Right now, Indianapolis is on an island in either conference.
                          To your point about UIndy...more precisely a second Indiana team moving to the GMAC, the question is who? As I read it there are only 3 DII programs in the state and only 1 plays football. Assuming the GMAC finds a second Indiana based DII to pair with UIndy, that would still be a long distance from NDC which kind of nullifies the travel distance argument that seems to be the main reason people are pushing for NDC to the GMAC.

                          Not that I would want them back, but since we're speculating...The MEC could bring back Seton Hill witch would give NDC three dance partners within 150 miles. Heck, for that matter the MEC could bring back Seton Hill and Bluefield State and add Central State, end their relationship with UNCP and split into 7 team MEC North and MEC South! That would really reduce NDC's driving distance AND give them OOC opportunities to play the close by GMAC schools if they wished!!

                          Said it before but I'll say it again, the most logical thing would be for the MEC and GMAC to merge and form one conf with an east and west division...Call it the Great Mountain East Conf with east and West divisions...East mostly MEC schools and the West most of the GMAC teams. That would be a heck of a football AND basketball conference!

                          And the clock keeps ticking.
                          Last edited by boatcapt; 04-14-2021, 02:17 PM.

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                          • #88
                            I should have private messaged him. And I'll do that.

                            Last edited by UIndyFootball; 04-18-2021, 04:55 PM.

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                            • #89
                              I honestly didn't believe that I would wish I had that time back. I was wrong.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Tony Nicolette View Post
                                Holy Smokes! A real, live, burning thread in the GLIAC forum that I can't keep up with. Been a while since we've seen that! The topic in and of itself is a little heartbreaking, but I'm trying to find silver linings here.

                                OK...trying to insinuate myself back into the proceedings, and I see one particular point someone made that needs to be cleared up and that surrounds Indianapolis. UIndy absolutely did NOT leave the GLIAC because they were slotted in the North Division. Nor, was their being in the North "stupidity" on the part of the league for putting them there. Let's break this down:

                                - First of all, UIndy was only in the North for the 2010 and 2011 seasons. There were literally only two seasons that they were in that set-up.

                                - UIndy announced their departure for the GLVC prior to the 2011 season. Obviously, they didn't find a way to get the GLVC to reconstitute itself to start offering football in roughly 12 or so months. As Brandon (and I believe Blueblood) astutely point out, schools are having discussions about stuff constantly, and it is likely only a fraction of the time that things actually come to fruition. In other words, most stuff takes a LONG time to make happen. One of the discussions that DID come to fruition was the GLVC offering football, and that had been discussed/in the works for YEARS prior to UIndy joining up. UIndy's GLIAC divisional placement may have "conveniently" offered an additional, perceived benefit to UIndy to depart, but it happened long after GLVC Football was in motion and in no way served as a catalyst. The GLIAC was in no way surprised by UIndy's announcement.

                                - League By-Laws. As someone (I believe Blueblood again) noted, the GLVC's by-laws obligate its members to play their sports in that conference if the conference offers said sport. Hence, UIndy knew full well that once the GLVC was able to offer football they would be moving the sport to that league. No surprises, no hurt feelings, no vendettas. In fact, they also fulfilled their obligation to the GLIAC of announcing their intentions a year early. Furthermore, UIndy continued associate memberships in the GLIAC for at least a couple of other sports for quite some time AFTER football left. In fact, I believe they won a GLIAC Women's Lacrosse title as recently as 2019...and that sport has since shifted its play to the GLVC as a result of the league adding that sport to its offering. Why would UIndy continue to participate in the GLIAC for another eight or ten years if they were so bent about "how they were treated". Just doesn't line up.

                                - The Why - Maybe should have started with this, but WHY the North? Very simple. At that point in time the GLIAC had 14 full-time members. One of those members, Lake Superior State, doesn't offer football. It was a very logical, simple solution to have UIndy fill Lake State's football "void" in the divisional alignment. Was it fair? Maybe not. Could the league have gotten a bit more creative about it? Perhaps. But let's be real, the premise of UIndy leaving for the GLVC at that point had to be viewed as imminent so all parties knew that the solution was as temporary as it was simple.

                                - My last thought on this is in regards to the "fairness" of the arrangement, and the perceived "unfairness" that revolved around how much "extra travel" UIndy would have to do as a North member. Was it unfair to make them travel more? Perhaps...but just how much more did they have to travel, really? With two, seven-team divisions and a ten-game conference slate, GLIAC teams in 2010 and 2011 played all six of their division-mates (three home, three away), and four cross-overs (two home, two away). Even if they had been in the South, UIndy was still going to have two road-games against North teams. The reality is that they basically traded one, perceived "shorter" road trip for a single, perceived "longer" one each of those two seasons. I actually reviewed their schedules from those two years, and the only "crummy" straw they drew was going to the U.P. both seasons. With that said, the scheduling ideology of the league at that time would have created a scenario where South Teams were UP-bound at least once every 2nd or third year anyway. So, statistically they didn't end up going much more than they would have had they been in the South. And lastly, given that they had been playing at least one game in the UP nearly every year since joining the MIFC in 1993, this two year stretch was hardly anything earth-shattering.


                                Sorry, Gang. There's a bunch of your life you won't get back having read that...don't worry, writing takes longer than reading so I'm the true loser in this equation.


                                Beyond all of that, I agree with the posters who offer that the Ohio-centric conference was in the works for quite a while. I also agree that there are some logistical advantages for some of the schools that are more than obvious and are all but impossible to ignore.

                                I absolutely believe that some of the schools who have left the league were in no way trying to "duck" anyone. Their performances on the fields/courts spoke for themselves. I also absolutely believe that at least some of the schools that left were seeking a perceived home with less rigor, and saw no longer having to play some GLIAC teams as a valuable (albeit unstated) fringe benefit.

                                Back on topic, I still don't see what Northwood gets out of making this move. The geography/cost is worse, I don't foresee them being anymore competitive, and they will create recruiting and branding issues that don't exist presently. The premise that they "look like" the schools in the GMAC is inarguable, but is that truly the primary rationale that will drive this? Curious.
                                I don't have to be so critical with my choice of words but I know when I am right amount something.

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