Northwood Exit and Expansion Discussion

[DawgUp]

True. If I remember correctly, Ferris at one point wasn't even fully funding their football program due to the cost of their D1 hockey program. I'm not sure if that has changed or not.

Assuming they are. Football netted $209,029 while hockey netted $106,680. Athletics dept as a whole is in the green. Academics is a different beast altogether. Not sure how D1 academic requirements would be handled.

[DawgUp]

There's a 15k rolling average to be in FBS. There's no minimum attendance requirement for FCS football.

Thx for the clarification. If that's the case, guess its a wait and see approach.

Beachin's points are spot on. Seems like they're going to have to travel either way but the additional scholarships will be felt. That can always be offset with a few OOC beat down games for a check.

Just got a new AD who was an all conference football player at Eastern so hopefully he'll increase the emphasis on the football program. (Side note he has a Master's from GV, so he might be a plant looking to bring us down from the inside..lol) Facilities need a serious upgrade if we're going to up our recruiting.

Would love to see it. I'd empty the swear jar to up my contributions.

[BeachinLaker]

The other question is will Ferris be willing and able to take athletes at D1 academic requirements...also will the school be willing to spend the money on ALL sports...I have a feeling that if GVSU leaves the conference perhaps Hillsdale, Ashland and Northwood would want to come back to the GLIAC. For now moving to the GMAC has not gotten these teams any farther down the line than if they stayed in the GLIAC.

True. If I remember correctly, Ferris at one point wasn't even fully funding their football program due to the cost of their D1 hockey program. I'm not sure if that has changed or not.

[MrsThortonMelon]

As Kle said, there is no attendance average requirement for FCS. It all comes down to how much you want to spend on your athletics program. When GVSU makes the move, Ferris will be forced to ask itself if it wants to spend its money to travel much farther distances to find D2 opponents or spend its money on more scholarships and have a set conference within the Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee area.

The other question is will Ferris be willing and able to take athletes at D1 academic requirements...also will the school be willing to spend the money on ALL sports...I have a feeling that if GVSU leaves the conference perhaps Hillsdale, Ashland and Northwood would want to come back to the GLIAC. For now moving to the GMAC has not gotten these teams any farther down the line than if they stayed in the GLIAC.

[BeachinLaker]

Don't see that happening. We're only averaging a bit over 6000 attendance at home. Need 15k to move up. Would love for it to happen but just don't have the numbers.

As Kle said, there is no attendance average requirement for FCS. It all comes down to how much you want to spend on your athletics program. When GVSU makes the move, Ferris will be forced to ask itself if it wants to spend its money to travel much farther distances to find D2 opponents or spend its money on more scholarships and have a set conference within the Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee area.

[KleShreen]

Don't see that happening. We're only averaging a bit over 6000 attendance at home. Need 15k to move up. Would love for it to happen but just don't have the numbers.

There's a 15k rolling average to be in FBS. There's no minimum attendance requirement for FCS football.

[DawgUp]

Don't see that happening. We're only averaging a bit over 6000 attendance at home. Need 15k to move up. Would love for it to happen but just don't have the numbers.

[FSUBulldog27]

States nearby don't really have any D2 programs - Illinois has mainly D3 schools as well as Wisconsin. Nothing seems to change and schools are moving out of the GLIAC - So maybe time to move up - GVSU already has a FCS stadium and Ferris would need to build one - Maybe a move to the Missouri Valley...

[bigmrg74]

As I mentioned we went through this a decade ago and the thing I'm trying to convey is that there is no need to rush the process. With scheduling arrangements in place you can roll with the same numbers indefinitely. It's better to wait and add teams that want to be there long term rather than adding teams that want to use you as a jump off.

We had 5 committed teams and that was enough to build on. I do admit that we got lucky, but mind you it may have been the work of GSC admins. Shorter University transitioned from NAIA two years after we bottomed out with 5 schools. That brought our membership up to six. We're now up to 8 but it's perfect because we can get 1 game each from the SAC, CIAA and SIAC and raise all of their SOS'

Because of current scheduling, earned access isn't needed because everyone's SOS is solid

Plus now I believe that Tuskegee plans on participating in the playoffs last I looked, there's been years when the SIAC second best team got EC in because they didn't count Tuskegee with an astrict to account for them.

[boyblue]

I agree the conference administrators should be highly motivated. I hope stuff is work going behind the scenes to save the GLIAC (and the conference administrators' jobs).

As I mentioned we went through this a decade ago and the thing I'm trying to convey is that there is no need to rush the process. With scheduling arrangements in place you can roll with the same numbers indefinitely. It's better to wait and add teams that want to be there long term rather than adding teams that want to use you as a jump off.

We had 5 committed teams and that was enough to build on. I do admit that we got lucky, but mind you it may have been the work of GSC admins. Shorter University transitioned from NAIA two years after we bottomed out with 5 schools. That brought our membership up to six. We're now up to 8 but it's perfect because we can get 1 game each from the SAC, CIAA and SIAC and raise all of their SOS'

Because of current scheduling, earned access isn't needed because everyone's SOS is solid

[tip79]

I agree the conference administrators should be highly motivated. I hope stuff is work going on behind the scenes to save the GLIAC (and the conference administrators' jobs).

[boyblue]

I hope 8-3 does get you in, that would show other teams that you don't have to beat FSU & GVSU (and you almost beat one of them this year) to make the playoffs.

As far as growing your numbers there's no one on the planet more motivated than the your conference administrators. Their very existence depends on what they are able to accomplish in that regard, a goal of at least one team added every 12 to 18 months should be enough. Especially if they are able to secure scheduling arrangements with nearby conferences to make up the shortfall in games. Barring that, you can play some or all conference members a second time as an in conference or OOC game.

[SVSUAlum]

While the ideal thing is to have enough teams in conference to furnish enough games to qualify for the playoffs, if you're short a game or two the thing that would be most helpful would be for the conference to negotiate the most feasible scheduling arrangement they can with another conference. That way teams don't have to go looking for games. In terms of expansion, calls can be made to NAIA & D3 schools to inform them that the GLIAC would welcome them if they were minded to transition.

BTW, teams that fear that two PO spots are taken before the season even starts may be convinced that a loss to those two teams and even a third loss could qualify a team because they would have a higher SOS than other 2 or 3 loss teams in the region. In addition, teams that want to get better would benefit from tough competition as the GLIAC is top three in football. They are also [probably] No.1 across all sports.

I believe SVSU is going to test this theory this year. With our loses coming to Ferris State, GVSU, and Bowie St and a nice non conference win at Texas A&M Commerce. SVSU will be favored in the rest of their games and should finish 8-3. Seems like a merger with either the GLVC or the GMAC makes since for the GLIAC. If teams like Concordia of Ann Arbor or Lawrence Tech don't want to make the jump to DII then expansion would be tough. I believe travel costs become a real problem for the GLIAC as no other conferences want to pay for them trips to the U.P. for all their sports. Poor GLIAC finds themselves in a tough spot after not becoming proactive as teams began to leave years ago.

[boyblue]

I think we've pretty comprehensively discussed Northwood leaving, what are some of the options for expansion?

While the ideal thing is to have enough teams in conference to furnish enough games to qualify for the playoffs, if you're short a game or two the thing that would be most helpful would be for the conference to negotiate the most feasible scheduling arrangement they can with another conference. That way teams don't have to go looking for games. In terms of expansion, calls can be made to NAIA & D3 schools to inform them that the GLIAC would welcome them if they were minded to transition.

BTW, teams that fear that two PO spots are taken before the season even starts may be convinced that a loss to those two teams and even a third loss could qualify a team because they would have a higher SOS than other 2 or 3 loss teams in the region. In addition, teams that want to get better would benefit from tough competition as the GLIAC is top three in football. They are also [probably] No.1 across all sports.

[Mk63NuclearBomb]

I wonder what he means by "other external things to happen."

They're probably waiting until the results of FBS realignment are clearer. If the right FCS teams move up they might take the chance while it's available in 2022 or 2023.