Northwood Exit and Expansion Discussion

[SVSUAlum]

I don't really see much of a future left for the GLIAC. Only NAIA team in Michigan that could compete would be Concordia (CUAA) and they might be interested in joining as other branches of Concordia (St. Paul) are currently DII. CUAA ranked #5 in NAIA is also a very good team that could easily compete with Northwood, Northern, and Davenport right now. Still I don't think the addition of one team saves this conference and with the rumors of GVSU exploring the DI world at some level will eventually leave the conference in ruins. SVSU has the athletic facilities that will give them options if they are proactive in their future plans. Ferris will also have options but I wouldn't be shocked if everyone went their separate ways. A clean divorce. Should be an interesting couple of years as I think this comes to a head sooner rather than later.

[Brandon]

There will be options for many schools that some can't even imagine right now.

[KleShreen]

I think part of this, and Brandon might be alluding to it, is stringing this whole thing out until we see what happens at the upper echelons of FBS. If the power five conferences decide to just tell the NCAA to get bent, and form their own thing, and the non-P5 conferences become the new "top tier" of college football, I think you'll see GV jump at the chance at join them, along with a host of FCS schools. If you get rid of the SEC, Big Ten, Pac-12, ACC, Big 12, and the new "big dogs" are now in the American? Or the Sun Belt? Or the MAC? You'll see a mass exodus from FCS to FBS, and then a mass exodus from D-II to FCS as a result. A lot of levels will essentially move up a rung, IMO. I'd be much more open to GV going D1 if it meant they're out there taking NDSU's spot in FCS, or, even moreso, if it means they just jump straight in to the MAC, where now a national championship is possible with the entire P5 out of the picture. The other sports will still be getting shelled, but the money-maker of football will have an easier path to compete for titles.

[Brandon]

Will the NCAA even exist? The NIL ruling effectively neutered the organization.

[njmav1]

I think part of this, and Brandon might be alluding to it, is stringing this whole thing out until we see what happens at the upper echelons of FBS. If the power five conferences decide to just tell the NCAA to get bent, and form their own thing, and the non-P5 conferences become the new "top tier" of college football, I think you'll see GV jump at the chance at join them, along with a host of FCS schools. If you get rid of the SEC, Big Ten, Pac-12, ACC, Big 12, and the new "big dogs" are now in the American? Or the Sun Belt? Or the MAC? You'll see a mass exodus from FCS to FBS, and then a mass exodus from D-II to FCS as a result. A lot of levels will essentially move up a rung, IMO. I'd be much more open to GV going D1 if it meant they're out there taking NDSU's spot in FCS, or, even moreso, if it means they just jump straight in to the MAC, where now a national championship is possible with the entire P5 out of the picture. The other sports will still be getting shelled, but the money-maker of football will have an easier path to compete for titles.

That's a huge leap (of imagination). If the P5 conferences leave the NCAA, so does most (if not all) the revenue the NCAA. The P5 won't be satisfied with just football- they'll do it for basketball as well.

Now as far as collegiate athletics, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. The P5 has become nothing more than a minor league for the NFL and NBA.

[KleShreen]

That's a huge leap (of imagination). If the P5 conferences leave the NCAA, so does most (if not all) the revenue the NCAA. The P5 won't be satisfied with just football- they'll do it for basketball as well.

Now as far as collegiate athletics, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. The P5 has become nothing more than a minor league for the NFL and NBA.

The money won't be there, no, but it will break up the have and have not's of FBS football, and allow more teams to compete for a title. If you take the P5 and they move to a new segment, say they're now the FBS, and the rest of FBS is now the FCS, plus whoever might want to move in to that segment from today's FCS, then you have the P5 teams competing for their own title (and where most of the money will be), and a lot more teams competing for a title with the remaining FBS teams.

[njmav1]

The money won't be there, no, but it will break up the have and have not's of FBS football, and allow more teams to compete for a title. If you take the P5 and they move to a new segment, say they're now the FBS, and the rest of FBS is now the FCS, plus whoever might want to move in to that segment from today's FCS, then you have the P5 teams competing for their own title (and where most of the money will be), and a lot more teams competing for a title with the remaining FBS teams.

Assuming there is still an FBS without the P5.

[stealth]

Will the NCAA even exist? The NIL ruling effectively neutered the organization.

I think this is the real question. The NIL is resulting in massive inequities. I saw recently that an alum recently signed NIL deals with EVERY cross country runner at BYU for $6k, even that one that walked on. If they are doing that for cross country, what are they doing for basketball players, and football players. It will soon, not be about anything but the cash athletes get from NIL agreements via the school.

I think the NCAA will end up being a semi-pro league like they have in Mexico soccer, where the colleges are affiliated with semi-pro teams, but the players aren't necessarily students. Soccer is already run by clubs, and I assume basketball is heading the direction of AAU.

Long term, I foreseeing public universities dropping sports all together, and collegiate sports will only exist on a more recreational level at private universities, in a private university league.

[SVSUAlum]

There seems to be a lot of people with many different opinions on this matter. Personally I don't think anything is going to happen overnight in regards to the NCAA and the power 5. If anything I see them working together with the college football playoffs and expanding the field to 12 teams. Money rules the world and they say a 12 playoff field could bring in 2 billion in revenue! That would be nearly 200 million to each power 5 conference and 20+ million to the participating teams. Hard for university Presidents to say no to that kind of money. The NIL helps the student athletes but don't bring in any more money to the university. Just hard for me to believe the power 5 conference Presidents are going to say no to the money the NCAA is going to throw at them.

[Jim McElwain]

Page 13. Wow. What are y'all smokin? I need some of that. What a trip.

[Irishlaker]

There seems to be a lot of people with many different opinions on this matter. Personally I don't think anything is going to happen overnight in regards to the NCAA and the power 5. If anything I see them working together with the college football playoffs and expanding the field to 12 teams. Money rules the world and they say a 12 playoff field could bring in 2 billion in revenue! That would be nearly 200 million to each power 5 conference and 20+ million to the participating teams. Hard for university Presidents to say no to that kind of money. The NIL helps the student athletes but don't bring in any more money to the university. Just hard for me to believe the power 5 conference Presidents are going to say no to the money the NCAA is going to throw at them.

So, if the P5 split off and created their own entity, could they not negotiate their own $200M TV deal for the football playoffs? I'm failing to see how/why the NCAA has to be involved, let alone have any money to "throw" at the P5 Presidents. I think that's the point some of us have been trying to make. If the P5 schools do leave the NCAA and form their own gig, the rest of the NCAA's membership either has to disband or reorganize or both. Whether the P5 breaks away or not, I don't know...could see arguments for either. If they do, part of the rationale is to KEEP all of the $ that they are the prime factors in generating anyway.

[SVSUAlum]

So, if the P5 split off and created their own entity, could they not negotiate their own $200M TV deal for the football playoffs? I'm failing to see how/why the NCAA has to be involved, let alone have any money to "throw" at the P5 Presidents. I think that's the point some of us have been trying to make. If the P5 schools do leave the NCAA and form their own gig, the rest of the NCAA's membership either has to disband or reorganize or both. Whether the P5 breaks away or not, I don't know...could see arguments for either. If they do, part of the rationale is to KEEP all of the $ that they are the prime factors in generating anyway.

I would agree that the P5 could negotiate the deal themselves but why not use the NCAA as an agent to get the deal done and demand more of the payout? At this point the NCAA knows the P5 schools are a threat to their way of life and their best bet is to become the middle man. The P5 would have to form some kind of organization or committee to negotiate these deals anyways might as well keep the NCAA and squeeze them for the next 10 years.

[Brandon]

I would agree that the P5 could negotiate the deal themselves but why not use the NCAA as an agent to get the deal done and demand more of the payout? At this point the NCAA knows the P5 schools are a threat to their way of life and their best bet is to become the middle man. The P5 would have to form some kind of organization or committee to negotiate these deals anyways might as well keep the NCAA and squeeze them for the next 10 years.

How does the NCAA provide any benefit in this situation? The NCAA is an org comprised of representatives of the colleges and universities and paid for by such. Why wouldn't they cut out the middle men or create their own more streamlined organization?

I'd much rather keep all the schools under the same umbrella, I'm just failing to imagine a scenario in which the the P5 schools benefit from it..

[SVSUAlum]

How does the NCAA provide any benefit in this situation? The NCAA is an org comprised of representatives of the colleges and universities and paid for by such. Why wouldn't they cut out the middle men or create their own more streamlined organization?

I'd much rather keep all the schools under the same umbrella, I'm just failing to imagine a scenario in which the the P5 schools benefit from it..

First off just so we are clear I am not a fan of the NCAA but I just don't see them going away in the next few years. There is so much money to consider and not just in football. Basketball brings in over 1 billion for their basketball tournament alone. If the P5 breaks off what happens to basketball? The NCAA can help act as an agent to distribute the money and get the TV contracts signed. The P5 would have to form a committee and pay those people a huge fee to do this anyways. Just take a hard line with the NCAA and demand more of the revenue pie. At this point the NCAA knows who is running the show and it's not them. If they want to stay around they will listen to what the P5 wants and go from there. The facilities of these P5 schools don't look like they are hurting for money anyways. I know, Michigan needs its 6th indoor practice facility. Would be nice for the P5 to help the little guys.

[MrsThortonMelon]

After giving up 70 points two weeks in a row you wonder if maybe D3 might be a better landing for Northwood. GVSU could have hung 100 on them last night honestly if they had wanted to. A once proud program is a complete train wreck. Long live the WoodBone...be sure and turn the lights out when you leave guys.