Washburn at Pitt

[HookemHerd]

Re: Washburn at Pitt

I remember but I also remember 2010, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018. ALL PLAYOFF MISSES!

You can look at one year and say success, I look at the entire body of work and say, failure. Don't care about 70% win percentage only care about the 22.22% of times his teams has made the playoffs. You can only live so long off of something that was done 7 years ago.

All we have to do is look at NW. They got a guy that didn't play for them or attend the University. Brought assistant coaches with him that didn't do either as well. The combo of Mel T., Jim S., Bart T., Scott B., turned that football program around and we all know what happened shortly after they arrived. Bearcat fans can say if any had ties to NW or if they were known by the AD before the hire or not.

Again, I'm not saying draw names blindly but just don't set conditions that narrow a search for a good coach and let him bring in people he trusts. We both obviously want the same thing and there are different ways of going about it. I just hope it happens but don't believe it will.

Paid handsomely to get Mel T there. How importants a winning program now? Open that check book, add resources to build and recruit and top coaches will apply

[Ian Carlson]

Re: Washburn at Pitt

Paid handsomely to get Mel T there. How importants a winning program now? Open that check book, add resources to build and recruit and top coaches will apply

[Greenman]

Re: Washburn at Pitt

agreed, they got out the checkbook to keep him there, and his staff, not get them there.

[HookemHerd]

Re: Washburn at Pitt

[GorillaBred]

Re: Washburn at Pitt

Do you remember 2010? 2011 was a John Brown led-anomaly. Beck has done a lot of great things for Pitt football, but his record as a HC is what it is, and I'm not so sure you could call it a "great" hire. It was the safe hire.

I'm standing by what I said. The 2010 team still had a lot of the detritus from the previous year. Beat two teams that we expected to be better than they were the first two seasons and then had bad fall back to reality in weeks 3 and 4 with losses to UCM and MW that were not good games for PSU. With the exception of the UNO game, they made pretty clear improvement in every game from there on out about everywhere on the field except the QB position--that one spot was really holding that team back all year. Dickey made a big jump that offseason and, yes, John Brown had a big impact.

But even setting aside 2010, there is no one Pitt State could have hired in 2009 that would've been a better hire than Beck, so, almost by definition, he was a great hire.

[GorillaBred]

Re: Washburn at Pitt

I remember but I also remember 2010, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018. ALL PLAYOFF MISSES!

You can look at one year and say success, I look at the entire body of work and say, failure. Don't care about 70% win percentage only care about the 22.22% of times his teams has made the playoffs. You can only live so long off of something that was done 7 years ago.

All we have to do is look at NW. They got a guy that didn't play for them or attend the University. Brought assistant coaches with him that didn't do either as well. The combo of Mel T., Jim S., Bart T., Scott B., turned that football program around and we all know what happened shortly after they arrived. Bearcat fans can say if any had ties to NW or if they were known by the AD before the hire or not.

Again, I'm not saying draw names blindly but just don't set conditions that narrow a search for a good coach and let him bring in people he trusts. We both obviously want the same thing and there are different ways of going about it. I just hope it happens but don't believe it will.

I'm just saying 2016-2018 have no bearing on whether or not he was a good hire. At that point, it's a matter of retention, not hiring. If you told me we hired a new HC this offseason and he gets us a NC within 3 years before eventually dropping off, I'd hire him in a heartbeat and just let him go whenever the dropoff happens.

Let me float this idea by you: Do the national search now (or, more ideally, the day after the FHSU game). Headhunter firms are able to do this sort of thing discreetly. If it turns out Jerry Partridge and Josh Lattimer are the best HC candidates we could get, don't fire Beck. If someone who you think is Mel T is there for the hiring, go ahead and fire Beck.

[Ian Carlson]

Re: Washburn at Pitt

I'm standing by what I said. The 2010 team still had a lot of the detritus from the previous year. Beat two teams that we expected to be better than they were the first two seasons and then had bad fall back to reality in weeks 3 and 4 with losses to UCM and MW that were not good games for PSU. With the exception of the UNO game, they made pretty clear improvement in every game from there on out about everywhere on the field except the QB position--that one spot was really holding that team back all year. Dickey made a big jump that offseason and, yes, John Brown had a big impact.

But even setting aside 2010, there is no one Pitt State could have hired in 2009 that would've been a better hire than Beck, so, almost by definition, he was a great hire.

No one? How can you know that? Chris Brown was at WU in 2009. Mike Houston at Lenoir Rhyne. Jed Stugart took over Sioux Falls in 2010. Those are just some names off the top of my head.

[GorillaBred]

Re: Washburn at Pitt

I don't mean this post to say Pitt State deserved to make the POs in any year in which they did not.

But when was it when they switched to heavy math-ifying of the selection process? I think there might've been Pitt State teams in the 90s that wouldn't have made it if we had to let some of the teams in that get in today. Conversely, I'm pretty sure that Pitt State's PO performance in 1990-92 bought the conference some added PO credibility with the selection process that wouldn't be possible for a team to do today.

[GorillaBred]

Re: Washburn at Pitt

No one? How can you know that? Chris Brown was at WU in 2009. Mike Houston at Lenoir Rhyne. Jed Stugart took over Sioux Falls in 2010. Those are just some names off the top of my head.

I could be wrong about this, there's no way of knowing, obviously, but I think the last 9 years would've gone worse for Pitt State with any of those hires in December 2009. Admittedly, Chris Brown is making me think really hard about typing this. But I think Houston would've moved up before winning a title here (just like at LR, and I'm not sure Pitt State could have hired him, anyway) and I'm not in anyway convinced Stugart would've had more success at Pitt State than Beck has.

[Ian Carlson]

Re: Washburn at Pitt

I could be wrong about this, there's no way of knowing, obviously, but I think the last 9 years would've gone worse for Pitt State with any of those hires in December 2009. Admittedly, Chris Brown is making me think really hard about typing this. But I think Houston would've moved up before winning a title here (just like at LR, and I'm not sure Pitt State could have hired him, anyway) and I'm not in anyway convinced Stugart would've had more success at Pitt State than Beck has.

[GorillaBred]

Re: Washburn at Pitt

Turner Gill--a position group coach--compared to the longtime OC who had been named the inaugural D2 Coordinator of the Year less than a year prior and, when considering the level of defensive competition, had presided over what was a truly historic half decade-ish stretch of offense. Aside from the decline at the end of CB, Beck's hiring was more akin to Frank Solich being hired. Other than the difference between the end of 2001 and the end of 2011, Beck's run has been more or less comparable to Solich's, too.

But Nebraska provides a good example of why Beck was the right hire, because going outside the program post-Solich turned out pretty bad for Nebraska and they still haven't really recovered from it.

It's a fine line for a program that has long term success to know when to stay within and when to go outside. Nebraska faced it then, Pitt State ought to be facing it now, NW will eventually face it some day...