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Why are some MIAA schools fighting so hard to keep silo scheduling?

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  • #46
    Ringing off the hook? Doubtful. They are a dud and will do nothing to help with someone's SOS. Truman, Lwood and Rolla (Mo S&T) would get more calls as all are likely to finish above .500 which helps one's SOS.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Gorilla John 92 View Post

      This would not work in for the MIAA. Why? Conference depth and who would play whom within the conference. One will recall that Emporia had couple of playoff runs due to the fact they weren't playing the top teams in the league and beat up on the bottom of the league. Now look at Lwood and Truman. They struggled to compete in the MIAA and left. Lwood finished 10th last year in the MIAA and now is in the playoffs. Why? Because they are not in the MIAA any longer. UCM has a bad year last and finished at 5 - 6. Now this year in the playoffs. Say they didn't have to play NW in the conference rotation and got to beat up on the lower half of the GAC due to this was the year things rotated. An 11-0 season, a possible bye this week and a home playoff game the following week. Can you imagine the uproar if NW was still to have lost to UNK and dropped a game against an upper GAC team and is sitting with two losses and possibly staying at home?

      If anything, this really helps the middle of the road team. Pull an upset within the conference and make the playoffs.
      Not true.
      ESU played everyone in the MIAA in 2015 and 2016 - the years that they made the Regional final and regional semifinal. In 2013 when the Hornets went 9-1 in the regular season to make the playoffs and played three of the other four teams that won at least eight games going 2-1 with wins over MWSU and Washburn. The only "top team" they didn't play was Pitt State. That was the year Truman left the league so there were up to two openings for non-cons due to UNO leaving the year before. Pitt lost to Southern in the last game of the year, which probably kept them out of the playoffs, but didn't have to play ESU or WU (8-3).
      The year before ESU went 9-2 in the regular season all in conference games and went on to win the Kanza Bowl. They played the other three teams that won at least eight games that year and went 1-2 losing to NWMSU and MWSU.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by TSU_Mike59 View Post
        I don't see why the MIAA couldn't utilize a scheduling alliance with the GAC like the GLVC will be starting soon with the GMAC. Two games a year are guaranteed, and, like the GLVC and GMAC set it up, the "top" teams play the other conference's "top" teams in a home-and-home over a two year cycle. This would help sort out the SOS issue because every team wouldn't have a .500 anymore, provide at least some non-conference comparison, and it would allow the teams to possibly play their way into a 3-bid league for their conference.

        Here's the GLVC/GMAC alliance as an idea: https://greatmidwestsports.com/news/...-alliance.aspx
        All that does is create a super silo of 2 conferences.

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        • #49
          Silo has sucked the life out of the MIAA. It's not fun any more. It's boring. It's incestuous.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Taxman View Post

            All that does is create a super silo of 2 conferences.
            What we need is a super-super silo of about 16 conferences.

            I'm pretty sure every team in the conference could schedule games if they were willing to agree to home and homes--probably all could do this in a manner that would result in very little additional travel cost OR in a manner that would boost your SOS. Avoiding added cost while upping SOS would likely be a challenge for anyone. If you're asking a team to come in with no return visit, you're probably going to have to shell out some cash.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by the Northeasterner View Post
              There are legit arguements for silo
              1. Everybody gets a full schedule of 11 games
              2 AD's don'thave to work hard to fill schedule with d2 opponents for po criteria
              3 because miaa is centrally located. Travel costs are equalized ovrer twoyear window

              Here are popular reasons defending silo.
              1 we get a true conf champ .
              2 the strength of schedule is .500 for everyone
              3 we protect brand name with no niaa or paycheck games
              4 we get better crowds with miaa only opponents

              ??????

              Now I have made my argument s numerous times before . But I will summerize it up . I believe silo is going to slowly destroy the miaa. And create a situation where the top is inflated the bottom is devestated. The teams will all look the same offensively and defensively. The recruiting area will slowly shrink . And the conf will slowly but surely see a loss of play off domination. The very cornerstone of it's reputation.

              I have been consistent in my arguments and my nightmare scenario for future. But if nw and central fail to make semifinals it is beginning to show now.
              Correct or incorrect those are some good thoughts. However, is the erosion of play just an MIAA thing, or a whole division wide thing? FB in general is running the same offenses. The MIAA's biggest issue is QB and DL play. Those are the 2 most important factors when determining the level your team is capable of competing at over an entire season. When combined both are not great when considering the entire conference.

              One could say NW's ridiculously dominant run from 2013-2016 masked what was already a weakening conference and possibly division. Those NW teams were crazy good (esp. at the aforementioned DL and QB). Over that 4 year/57 game span only 6 games were not double digit victories for NW - 2 losses in 2014 (with no WRs to Pitt and UMD) and 4 other single digit victories (Pitt, Central 2X, and UCO).

              Fast forward. NW loses what is arguably the best coach the division has ever seen. QB play degrades. And defense loses generational DL talent. Yet still manages to win at least a share of the conference championship in 2 of 3 seasons and make the POs in all 3.

              I just can't bring myself to see that silo scheduling is what would hurt recruiting and degrade the talent pool coming into the conference.

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              • #52
                Taxman spitballing some thoughts here.

                Obviously there is no way to measure it, but I think the insular scheduling has hurt. Maybe the only way to look at it would be to compare recruiting classes of the last eight years to the previous eight years? Compare the breath of the recruiting area to previous areas?

                Last year, Valdosta State and Ferris State both compared historically well to past champions.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Taxman View Post

                  Correct or incorrect those are some good thoughts. However, is the erosion of play just an MIAA thing, or a whole division wide thing? FB in general is running the same offenses. The MIAA's biggest issue is QB and DL play. Those are the 2 most important factors when determining the level your team is capable of competing at over an entire season. When combined both are not great when considering the entire conference.

                  One could say NW's ridiculously dominant run from 2013-2016 masked what was already a weakening conference and possibly division. Those NW teams were crazy good (esp. at the aforementioned DL and QB). Over that 4 year/57 game span only 6 games were not double digit victories for NW - 2 losses in 2014 (with no WRs to Pitt and UMD) and 4 other single digit victories (Pitt, Central 2X, and UCO).

                  Fast forward. NW loses what is arguably the best coach the division has ever seen. QB play degrades. And defense loses generational DL talent. Yet still manages to win at least a share of the conference championship in 2 of 3 seasons and make the POs in all 3.

                  I just can't bring myself to see that silo scheduling is what would hurt recruiting and degrade the talent pool coming into the conference.
                  Well the erosion of d2 is happening .Because the institution s in d2 don't have same resources and are not same institutions. All the big boys are gone.

                  We are also seeing the slow drain of the 9 game conf schedule. There is less paycheck games out there for mid majors who have less for fcs and then less for d2 and so forth down . If the sec ever goes to 9. Conf. It will devestate southern football


                  The successful 7 to 12k sized instutuinsti with good alum support are out. The ones that remain dominant. Nw. The three refugees from ncc. Valdosta slippery and indiana. And the gliac three. The institutions left are smaller.

                  Let's not lie. Nw does better because they spend more they getgmore because they win more if nw wasn't in little Maryville they should move up because nw spends like a fcs school

                  But my argument that silo makes the miaa smaller in recruiting and support name recognition. When all we do is prey on each other eventually only one will rise to top . Rest will crumble . Its capitialism. Look at what is happening in sec West. The PAC ten north changing dynamic . But up thier the compensation is twenty to thirty million check every year

                  There are four Missouri schools left in the Missouri conference and trust me moso has looked to leave in last five years . How many people more have to leave before we get idea that this model is destructive. There are better ways of letting people keep thier program alive


                  ???

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by backintheday View Post

                    First, I hope to make clear my prior response was not sarcastic but an attempt to summarize what I took from your message.

                    There is no way one can know that "it hasn't mattered yet". Who can say the MIAA wouldn't have gotten 3 teams into the playoffs instead of 2. It is unknowable what effect jettisoning 2 wins against Northeastern State, Missouri Southern, Lincoln this year, UNK any of the last several years prior to this season and replacing them wins against winning teams from outside the conference. What would that do to any team's strength of schedule for whom that occurs?

                    Like you, I would never suggest "telling an AD/Coach how to run their football program" either so I'm sorry my question (not suggestion) was misinterpreted. What I would do and have done is say I'd much rather pay to see competitive games than 60 or 70 to 10 blowouts. That is a perfectly appropriate discussion to have in my opinion given we pay the bills including their salary.
                    I want wins. Conf. Championships, PO appearances/wins, and National Titles. I don't care who they play to get them.

                    Also, what MIAA team has been left out of the PO's since the expansion to 7 teams that was deserving?
                    Last edited by Taxman; 11-25-2019, 10:26 AM.

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                    • #55
                      Go Bearcats!
                      M-I-Z-Z-O-U!

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by the Northeasterner View Post

                        Well the erosion of d2 is happening .Because the institution s in d2 don't have same resources and are not same institutions. All the big boys are gone.

                        We are also seeing the slow drain of the 9 game conf schedule. There is less paycheck games out there for mid majors who have less for fcs and then less for d2 and so forth down . If the sec ever goes to 9. Conf. It will devestate southern football


                        The successful 7 to 12k sized instutuinsti with good alum support are out. The ones that remain dominant. Nw. The three refugees from ncc. Valdosta slippery and indiana. And the gliac three. The institutions left are smaller.

                        Let's not lie. Nw does better because they spend more they getgmore because they win more if nw wasn't in little Maryville they should move up because nw spends like a fcs school

                        But my argument that silo makes the miaa smaller in recruiting and support name recognition. When all we do is prey on each other eventually only one will rise to top . Rest will crumble . Its capitialism. Look at what is happening in sec West. The PAC ten north changing dynamic . But up thier the compensation is twenty to thirty million check every year

                        There are four Missouri schools left in the Missouri conference and trust me moso has looked to leave in last five years . How many people more have to leave before we get idea that this model is destructive. There are better ways of letting people keep thier program alive


                        ???
                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-Am...on?wprov=sfti1

                        teams have been joining our league and leaving it for decades for a variety of reasons. it is natural and not unlike all the others

                        again i am against silo 100% but i am buying none of this as being related. schools in favor of it are so bc it is easy and simplifies life

                        i do think the bolded part broadly creates a ripple that impacts smaller schools decision making no question about it

                        and i also like the observations holistically they are thoughtful
                        Go Bearcats!
                        M-I-Z-Z-O-U!

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by the Northeasterner View Post

                          Well the erosion of d2 is happening .Because the institution s in d2 don't have same resources and are not same institutions. All the big boys are gone.

                          The successful 7 to 12k sized instutuinsti with good alum support are out. The ones that remain dominant. Nw. The three refugees from ncc. Valdosta slippery and indiana. And the gliac three. The institutions left are smaller.

                          Let's not lie. Nw does better because they spend more they getgmore because they win more if nw wasn't in little Maryville they should move up because nw spends like a fcs school

                          But my argument that silo makes the miaa smaller in recruiting and support name recognition. When all we do is prey on each other eventually only one will rise to top . Rest will crumble . Its capitialism. Look at what is happening in sec West. The PAC ten north changing dynamic . But up thier the compensation is twenty to thirty million check every year

                          There are four Missouri schools left in the Missouri conference and trust me moso has looked to leave in last five years . How many people more have to leave before we get idea that this model is destructive. There are better ways of letting people keep thier program alive


                          ???
                          Let's be honest. You're one of the good guys. I have known you as a D2 fan for 20 years or more. However, you are misinformed.

                          There have been a few larger schools (NDSU, UND, UNC, UCA, UCD) that have reclassified and have hurt Division II a little bit because they increased scholarships and their recruiting footprint. But the biggest boys, at least in terms of enrollment, are still here - Wayne State, Grand Valley, Ferris State, etc.

                          You have consistently been irritated by people trying to push NSU out of the MIAA. But now you are attempting to do the same thing to Northwest Missouri based upon your incorrect perceptions. When you look at the data, any sensible person would make the observation that NSU belongs in the GAC much more than NW belongs in the FCS.

                          Some teams I looked up to have a wide comparison...
                          x
                          School Enrollment Football Budget Athletic Budget Class
                          James Madison 18,860 $11,888,854 $45,938,582 FCS
                          North Dakota State 10,737 $5,694,549 $28,025,664 FCS
                          Abilene Christian 3,508 $4,811,820 $17,040,362 FCS
                          Sacramento State 23,420 $4,373,169 $27,065,996 FCS
                          Grand Valley 19,373 $2,651,709 $14,465,700 D2
                          Northwest Missouri 4,768 $2,468,889 $9,362,017 D2
                          Wayne State (Mich.) 12,346 $2,243,936 $13,104,316 D2
                          Pittsburg State 5,035 $2,217,675 $7,581,266 D2
                          Ferris State 8,452 $2,094,892 $9,319,597 D2
                          Central Missouri 7,622 $2,007,064 $11,582,883 D2
                          Fort Hays 5,774 $1,907,018 $10,233,095 D2
                          Oklahoma Baptist 1,818 $1,847,945 $ 10,027,837 D2
                          Northeastern State 4,747 $1,622,370 $5,602,088 D2
                          Harding 3,944 $1,608,335 $5,959,937 D2
                          Central Oklahoma 10,374 $1,582,175 $10,638,007 D2
                          Henderson State 2,565 $1,193,618 $4,799,742 D2
                          East Central 2,565 $964,473 $3,993,947 D2
                          x
                          The entire NW spends like a drunken sailor narrative was simply an attempt to diminish what they had accomplished. It was just message board fun but it's probably time to clear up that nonsense. The only reason that Northwest Missouri would/should/could consider a move to the FCS is because of success. The accounting says D2 all the way.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Brandon View Post


                            The entire NW spends like a drunken sailor narrative was simply an attempt to diminish what they had accomplished. It was just message board fun but it's probably time to clear up that nonsense. The only reason that Northwest Missouri would/should/could consider a move to the FCS is because of success. The accounting says D2 all the way.
                            Spending narratives are always going to exist because of the completely non-uniform way this stuff gets reported. Even discounting things like PO travel or PO gameday expenses, NW likely does spend on the high side of the conference, but it isn't an outlier and it definitely isn't an outlier that makes it appear to be a candidate for FCS. I'm agreeing with you in principle, just trying to make it clear that the NW spending narrative is probably more attributable to the way PO appearances increase apparent spending than it is to some nefarious scheme to diminish NW's accomplishments.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by CatFan88 View Post

                              To get this straight, you are generally in favor of MIAA silo scheduling for FOOTBALL because of budget? What's the basketball budget? What's the baseball budget? What's the soccer budget? What's the track budget? Are they limited to a silo schedule because of budget?

                              Here's another question. The NCAA has thrown out strict regionalization for football. By that I mean the 5-7 seeds are no longer considered ranked and can be shipped to other regions to eliminate flight costs. Does that favor or hinder a football silo schedule? The MIAA is centrally located. NW and UCM could probably save a ton of money playing somebody closer like Truman, LU for example than traveling to UCO or Northeastern.

                              The budget reasoning in favor of a football silo schedule has been exhausted. Boo.

                              Here's my take...the lure of collegiate football to football players is the opportunity to compete nationally, not "locally". Silo scheduling is and will be the demise of the MIAA as a football power. NW and Pitt St. didn't get to be national powers playing only MIAA schools. Non-conference scheduling becomes an inherent recruiting tool that opens your institution to the possibility of bringing prospective students from all over the country.
                              My guess is numero uno is winning. The opportunity to play at Arrowhead doesn't hurt either. Noncon issues are down the list. You're going to get variety beyond the conf. in the POs.

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                              • #60
                                Go Bearcats!
                                M-I-Z-Z-O-U!

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