Football schedule vote

[GrifFan]

Good info here about a vote coming up to schedule nonconference games.

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[Hornetfan]

Ask Grand Valley about Looney's line of if you play non-conference games and win them you will will be in. There is a lot more to it than that.

Lakers went 3-0 in non-conference, Lindenwood went 1-2 in non-conference (1-3 if you count the FCS game) and both were 8-3 overall - although LWU was 8-2 in D2 games.

The Lions won their league and with this particular committee it seems like that had more relevance than the non-conference record. GVSU played Edinboro (3-8), Delta State (6-4) and William Jewell (1-10) while LWU played Midwestern State (5-6), Davenport (5-5), and Saginaw Valley (5-5). IF you look at the comparative scores, they both beat SVSU by a touchdown, GVSU thumped WJC by 53 while LWU won by 10, and the Lakers beat Davenport while Lindenwood lost to them.

Who you play is important as well. Edinboro, Delta, Midwestern and Saginaw have all been good in the last three years so they were probably assuming they would get a SOS bump when playing them that didn't really happen this year. I've said it before but most coaches and ADs like to be in control of the situation. They have some control over their SOS with the silo schedule.

[FlyinLion]

Full audio of all the interviews can be found here.

Peterson and Wright both mention the benefit of the round robin for intra-conference playoff seeding (e.g. NW 3, UCM 4) while the main selling point of opening up the schedule is the inter-conference playoff selection and seeding.

[Brandon]

The #1 benefit of multiple non-conference games is more chances to compare potential participants.

The #2 benefit is that the strong teams/conferences should get more teams in than weaker teams.

The #3 benefit is that the strongest teams/conferences should get more home games.

[Brandon]

Ask Grand Valley about Looney's line of if you play non-conference games and win them you will will be in. There is a lot more to it than that.

Lakers went 3-0 in non-conference, Lindenwood went 1-2 in non-conference (1-3 if you count the FCS game) and both were 8-3 overall - although LWU was 8-2 in D2 games.

The Lions won their league and with this particular committee it seems like that had more relevance than the non-conference record. GVSU played Edinboro (3-8), Delta State (6-4) and William Jewell (1-10) while LWU played Midwestern State (5-6), Davenport (5-5), and Saginaw Valley (5-5). IF you look at the comparative scores, they both beat SVSU by a touchdown, GVSU thumped WJC by 53 while LWU won by 10, and the Lakers beat Davenport while Lindenwood lost to them.

Who you play is important as well. Edinboro, Delta, Midwestern and Saginaw have all been good in the last three years so they were probably assuming they would get a SOS bump when playing them that didn't really happen this year. I've said it before but most coaches and ADs like to be in control of the situation. They have some control over their SOS with the silo schedule.

Yes. A team still has to win games in conference. I don't think Looney was dismissing those games at all.

Because of the ridiculous scheduling practices of half the conferences in the region, I don't think conclusions can necessarily be drawn. These scheduling practices have caused new rules to be created in order to counter the lack of data points. An analysis of SR1 and SR2 would lead to a better understanding of how teams should be selected.

I believe that SOS should be a much bigger factor than it is.

[Predatory Primates]

Fire the NW ad and any others who are against it, asap.

[Predatory Primates]

Then find whoever came up with the miaa silo idea, and kick them in the junk.

[Brandon]

2019 SR3 Non-Conference Records

GLIAC
14-9 .608

GLVC
12-11 .521

MIAA
0-0 .500

GAC
0-0 .500

[GrifFan]

A few thoughts:

There have been co-champions in three of the six years of the silo schedule, which undermines the "one true champion" argument. Wright and Peterson make the point that the head-to-head helped seed the co-champs, which is fine, but I'm not sure why distinguishing between Northwest and UCM this year is more important than being able to make broader comparisons between the conferences in the region.

Every other conference sport manages to schedule non-conference games. Because of the team size, football has a different challenge, but other conferences (and our own conference history prior to the last few years) would suggest that the difficulties are not insurmountable.

I simply don't see a way forward for programs like NSU and Lincoln to get competitive when they are only playing MIAA teams. Give them the flexibility to schedule a couple of non-con games where they can get some wins and get some confidence (or some money), and who knows?

[Brandon]

A few thoughts:

There have been co-champions in three of the six years of the silo schedule, which undermines the "one true champion" argument. Wright and Peterson make the point that the head-to-head helped seed the co-champs, which is fine, but I'm not sure why distinguishing between Northwest and UCM this year is more important than being able to make broader comparisons between the conferences in the region.

Every other conference sport manages to schedule non-conference games. Because of the team size, football has a different challenge, but other conferences (and our own conference history prior to the last few years) would suggest that the difficulties are not insurmountable.

I simply don't see a way forward for programs like NSU and Lincoln to get competitive when they are only playing MIAA teams. Give them the flexibility to schedule a couple of non-con games where they can get some wins and get some confidence (or some money), and who knows?

Less than 3% of the schedules in D2 history HAVE NOT allowed non-conference games. It's an anomaly.

[catbacker07]

Ask Grand Valley about Looney's line of if you play non-conference games and win them you will will be in. There is a lot more to it than that.

Lakers went 3-0 in non-conference, Lindenwood went 1-2 in non-conference (1-3 if you count the FCS game) and both were 8-3 overall - although LWU was 8-2 in D2 games.

The Lions won their league and with this particular committee it seems like that had more relevance than the non-conference record. GVSU played Edinboro (3-8), Delta State (6-4) and William Jewell (1-10) while LWU played Midwestern State (5-6), Davenport (5-5), and Saginaw Valley (5-5). IF you look at the comparative scores, they both beat SVSU by a touchdown, GVSU thumped WJC by 53 while LWU won by 10, and the Lakers beat Davenport while Lindenwood lost to them.

Who you play is important as well. Edinboro, Delta, Midwestern and Saginaw have all been good in the last three years so they were probably assuming they would get a SOS bump when playing them that didn't really happen this year. I've said it before but most coaches and ADs like to be in control of the situation. They have some control over their SOS with the silo schedule.

[catbacker07]

A few thoughts:

There have been co-champions in three of the six years of the silo schedule, which undermines the "one true champion" argument. Wright and Peterson make the point that the head-to-head helped seed the co-champs, which is fine, but I'm not sure why distinguishing between Northwest and UCM this year is more important than being able to make broader comparisons between the conferences in the region.

Every other conference sport manages to schedule non-conference games. Because of the team size, football has a different challenge, but other conferences (and our own conference history prior to the last few years) would suggest that the difficulties are not insurmountable.

I simply don't see a way forward for programs like NSU and Lincoln to get competitive when they are only playing MIAA teams. Give them the flexibility to schedule a couple of non-con games where they can get some wins and get some confidence (or some money), and who knows?

GREAT point on the last paragraph.

[NWFanatic]

Would they be allowed to have a 12 game schedule to get in a non con game?

[Hornetfan]

A few thoughts:

There have been co-champions in three of the six years of the silo schedule, which undermines the "one true champion" argument. Wright and Peterson make the point that the head-to-head helped seed the co-champs, which is fine, but I'm not sure why distinguishing between Northwest and UCM this year is more important than being able to make broader comparisons between the conferences in the region.

Every other conference sport manages to schedule non-conference games. Because of the team size, football has a different challenge, but other conferences (and our own conference history prior to the last few years) would suggest that the difficulties are not insurmountable.

I simply don't see a way forward for programs like NSU and Lincoln to get competitive when they are only playing MIAA teams. Give them the flexibility to schedule a couple of non-con games where they can get some wins and get some confidence (or some money), and who knows?

How did UNK go from not winning more than three games in each of their first five years in the league to winning five in 2018 and then going to a bowl game last year?
Sometimes I think winning those non-con games against teams like Panhandle State might do more harm than good for some teams by giving a false sense of worth. You see it all the time in basketball season - teams feast on lesser teams and NAIA programs in the non-con and then don't even make the MIAA tournament. They go 8-1 in the non-con but 6-13 in the MIAA and the coach gets another year because they were .500 overall.
Lincoln had the chance to play non-cons when they were in the GLVC, how'd that work for them?

FWIW the "one true champion" thing isn't that big a deal to me - of course we've never won more than 20% of an MIAA football championship. The thing that bothered me the most was the argument that ESU benefited from not playing everyone in 2012 and 2013. Say with the current set up Pitt didn't play Northwest Missouri and Central Missouri while Western didn't play Lincoln and Northeastern State. The Griffs get a road game to try and up their resume but fall to Harding while Pitt State plays beats William Jewell and Ark Tech at home (because they need the non-con home games for the suite holders). Let's say they both end up 7-2 in the league but Pitt goes 9-2 (with one of the losses to Western) while theGriffs are 8-3. Would a higher SOS be worth enough to overcome the difference in record?

[Hornetfan]

2019 SR3 Non-Conference Records

GLIAC
14-9 .608

GLVC
12-11 .521

MIAA
0-0 .500

GAC
0-0 .500

Doesn't that reinforce the argument that GVSU should have been in in front of Lindenwood? I don't think you can argue that either of them should have been in over the five teams with one or fewer losses so it comes down to GVSU, Lindenwood and Indy for the final two spots. As a conference the GLIAC had a better non-conference record, and if I figured it correctly went 5-2 inhead to head matchups with the GLVC. So if playing non-conference is an important data point why did Lindenwood make the playoffs and Grand Valley didn't?