Football schedule vote

[Predatory Primates]

I can buy the fact that it's hard to get good opponents and can be expensive. Not buying the travel thing at all. Once you get rid of your furthest conference opponents, the mileage to quite a few non cons is pretty comparable like Brandon showed above.

It will get even better if the NSIC goes non silo.

[NWHoops]

Generally agree but I am going to respectfully disagree on the conference arrangement piece.

Playing a quality non-con road game is an issue of cost and one of what the other school will do in return. For UCM to travel to a quality road game, where would it be? Lindenwood? Sioux Falls? Mankato? Searcy, Arkansas? Yes UCM could schedule a Truman, SBU, William Jewel, Missouri S&T etc but what would that net? Currently the GLVC has been traveling to the GLIAC mainly and I believe Truman played Commerce a year or two ago. The logical thing would be to schedule Truman and Lindenwood as they generally are going to be competitive in the GLVC. It would improve your strength of schedule but not every MIAA team can schedule those two opponents. How far would Kearney have to travel to play a quality team? What about Pitt? NW is the closest to the NSIC so that would make the most sense but until they open the conference up to OOC games it's a moot point. Same can be said for the GAC but why would one want to schedule an in region opponent?

Bottom line IMO, OOC games are going to be expensive if you want to play a quality opponent and given the current and worsening fiscal concerns with smaller schools, the status quo is best for now and the dissent can't solely be blamed on UCM or NW.

Similar to what Brandon said but without going through the mileage, our conference is spread out enough that I think there are options for all to have ooc games (that are still good quality teams) that are closer than some conference games. While NW may be closer to the NSIC, I can't see there being a big difference in taking out the NSU/UCO game(s) and getting GAC games. As I mentioned before, it has to be an agreement that makes financial sense among conferences with some type of memorandum so historically high-ranking teams aren't having to pay an arm and a leg to get a school to come play them at home. I think the conferences can work out something but not sure if they'll work together to that level.

[Taxman]

Pred, you seem to be out of touch with the true economic issues schools are facing. I can not speak for NW but I can tell you that enrollment is down for UCM and has led to difficult decisions needing to be made at UCM. Everyone had to cut budgets and this included athletics. Some sports this means traveling the same morning of an event others it is something else. I was informed from a reliable source that the the model for scholarship money now truly for the in-state equivalent. In the past, the University augmented by paying the 'Scholarship" for athletes that came from states that bordered Missouri. Now, Athletics has to pay for this while the University is still discounting this for other students that live in bordering states. This meant that athletics was only billed for the "in-state" rate and not the "out-of-state" rate and now they have to pay the out-of-state rate. This is huge. Think about our roster. How many kids come from Kansas, Illinois, Tennessee, Oklahoma or Iowa? The count was 60 last year with the majority coming from Illinois. The cost of tuition per credit hour is $235.00 for in-state students and $475.20 out-of-state students. That is more than double the rate so this is forcing athletics to do more with less.

Think about it. Can anyone tell me for any other reason than budget as to why UCM doesn't have an OC yet?

Because the HC is already the best OC in the entire division.

[Randy]

UNK wants to play Chadron State and Wayne State. The distances between UNK and the MIAA/Chadron/Wayne.

558 - NSU
483 - LU
477 - MSSU
458 - UCO
446 - PSU
383 - UCM
339 - ESU
324 - CSC
297 - WU
276 - MWSU
252 - NW
189 - WSC
146 - FHSU

Playing those two and eliminating two southern opponents might actually save money for UNK.

Pittsburg State

546 - INDY
514 - KWC
506 - WT
500 - UIU
479 - DSU
446 - UNK
417 - WSC
414 - LANE
374 - MSUTX
353 - QU
348 - FHSU
335 - TAMUC
329 - MCK
324 - UCM
309 - LWOOD
307 - TSU
227 - UCO
220 - NW
208 - LU
200 - MST
177 - MWSU
172 - WU
156 - ESU
143 - WJC
129 - UNK
129 - NSU
32 - MSSU


I didn't include any GAC teams. Obviously, the closer to the exterior of the conference the easier it would be to travel. UCO would have a ton of options. The Wayne State options are contingent on the NSIC opening up.

Looks like you fat fingered when you typed UCM. Either that or Pitt takes some crazy route to Warrensburg if its 15 miles further than St Charles.

[Brandon]

Generally agree but I am going to respectfully disagree on the conference arrangement piece.

Playing a quality non-con road game is an issue of cost and one of what the other school will do in return. For UCM to travel to a quality road game, where would it be? Lindenwood? Sioux Falls? Mankato? Searcy, Arkansas? Yes UCM could schedule a Truman, SBU, William Jewel, Missouri S&T etc but what would that net? Currently the GLVC has been traveling to the GLIAC mainly and I believe Truman played Commerce a year or two ago. The logical thing would be to schedule Truman and Lindenwood as they generally are going to be competitive in the GLVC. It would improve your strength of schedule but not every MIAA team can schedule those two opponents. How far would Kearney have to travel to play a quality team? What about Pitt? NW is the closest to the NSIC so that would make the most sense but until they open the conference up to OOC games it's a moot point. Same can be said for the GAC but why would one want to schedule an in region opponent?

Bottom line IMO, OOC games are going to be expensive if you want to play a quality opponent and given the current and worsening fiscal concerns with smaller schools, the status quo is best for now and the dissent can't solely be blamed on UCM or NW.

UNK wants to play Chadron State and Wayne State. The distances between UNK and the MIAA/Chadron/Wayne.

558 - NSU
483 - LU
477 - MSSU
458 - UCO
446 - PSU
383 - UCM
339 - ESU
324 - CSC
297 - WU
276 - MWSU
252 - NW
189 - WSC
146 - FHSU

Playing those two and eliminating two southern opponents might actually save money for UNK.

Pittsburg State

546 - INDY
514 - KWC
506 - WT
500 - UIU
479 - DSU
446 - UNK
417 - WSC
414 - LANE
374 - MSUTX
353 - QU
348 - FHSU
335 - TAMUC
329 - MCK
324 - UCM
309 - LWOOD
307 - TSU
227 - UCO
220 - NW
208 - LU
200 - MST
177 - MWSU
172 - WU
156 - ESU
143 - WJC
129 - UNK
129 - NSU
32 - MSSU


I didn't include any GAC teams. Obviously, the closer to the exterior of the conference the easier it would be to travel. UCO would have a ton of options. The Wayne State options are contingent on the NSIC opening up.

[Hornetfan]

Pred, you seem to be out of touch with the true economic issues schools are facing. I can not speak for NW but I can tell you that enrollment is down for UCM and has led to difficult decisions needing to be made at UCM. Everyone had to cut budgets and this included athletics. Some sports this means traveling the same morning of an event others it is something else. I was informed from a reliable source that the the model for scholarship money now truly for the in-state equivalent. In the past, the University augmented by paying the 'Scholarship" for athletes that came from states that bordered Missouri. Now, Athletics has to pay for this while the University is still discounting this for other students that live in bordering states. This meant that athletics was only billed for the "in-state" rate and not the "out-of-state" rate and now they have to pay the out-of-state rate. This is huge. Think about our roster. How many kids come from Kansas, Illinois, Tennessee, Oklahoma or Iowa? The count was 60 last year with the majority coming from Illinois. The cost of tuition per credit hour is $235.00 for in-state students and $475.20 out-of-state students. That is more than double the rate so this is forcing athletics to do more with less.

Think about it. Can anyone tell me for any other reason than budget as to why UCM doesn't have an OC yet?

Can you clarify this? In the D2 partial scholarship model I don't understand how you can do this?
If I understand this correctly you are saying that tuition (based on 12 hours/semester) for a year for out of state would be $11,404 and in-state would be $5,640. If you give a kid from Iowa a $4,000 scholarship then he would still pay $7,404? But if you don't scholarship him he only pays $5,640? It would be better financially for them to walk on if this is true.
I may not be understanding the situation correctly.

[Gorilla John 92]

Not out of touch at all. Just saying that when compared to Southern, the empire builders in Wburg can't convince me that 1 or 2 longer road trips a year is going to hurt them.

Southern would gladly take a non-con game with SBU, S&T or William Jewel as it would get them a win and not that much in travel. Heck they could leave the morning of the game and be just fine. Now would they go to Gunnison, CO; Las Vegas, New Mexico; Chadron, NE, Pueblo or even Alamosa? How about a LSC team? My thought is heck no.

The empire builders in Wburg are having to trim and IMO will be looking at trimming again if things don't stabilize. As NW Hoops stated, high school graduation rates are on the decline until the middle of the decade and will spike for a few years and then go right back down. This doesn't bode well for ALL of the MIAA not just in Wburg.

[Gorilla John 92]

I don't think it's the road trips that are the issue. It's the large payouts to get schools to play a home game at NW and the like. That's why some conference agreements could help fix that so there is a guarantee of a home game with no payout and then on the road to a different (or same) ooc opponent the next year.

Generally agree but I am going to respectfully disagree on the conference arrangement piece.

Playing a quality non-con road game is an issue of cost and one of what the other school will do in return. For UCM to travel to a quality road game, where would it be? Lindenwood? Sioux Falls? Mankato? Searcy, Arkansas? Yes UCM could schedule a Truman, SBU, William Jewel, Missouri S&T etc but what would that net? Currently the GLVC has been traveling to the GLIAC mainly and I believe Truman played Commerce a year or two ago. The logical thing would be to schedule Truman and Lindenwood as they generally are going to be competitive in the GLVC. It would improve your strength of schedule but not every MIAA team can schedule those two opponents. How far would Kearney have to travel to play a quality team? What about Pitt? NW is the closest to the NSIC so that would make the most sense but until they open the conference up to OOC games it's a moot point. Same can be said for the GAC but why would one want to schedule an in region opponent?

Bottom line IMO, OOC games are going to be expensive if you want to play a quality opponent and given the current and worsening fiscal concerns with smaller schools, the status quo is best for now and the dissent can't solely be blamed on UCM or NW.

[NWHoops]

Not out of touch at all. Just saying that when compared to Southern, the empire builders in Wburg can't convince me that 1 or 2 longer road trips a year is going to hurt them.

I don't think it's the road trips that are the issue. It's the large payouts to get schools to play a home game at NW and the like. That's why some conference agreements could help fix that so there is a guarantee of a home game with no payout and then on the road to a different (or same) ooc opponent the next year.

[northwest missouri state]

Not out of touch at all. Just saying that when compared to Southern, the empire builders in Wburg can't convince me that 1 or 2 longer road trips a year is going to hurt them.

absolutely. it's conflation in part.

[Predatory Primates]

Pitt amongst them.

[Predatory Primates]

The schools who have had huge facilities booms in the past decade or so will be hurting the most, imo.

[Predatory Primates]

Pred, you seem to be out of touch with the true economic issues schools are facing. I can not speak for NW but I can tell you that enrollment is down for UCM and has led to difficult decisions needing to be made at UCM. Everyone had to cut budgets and this included athletics. Some sports this means traveling the same morning of an event others it is something else. I was informed from a reliable source that the the model for scholarship money now truly for the in-state equivalent. In the past, the University augmented by paying the 'Scholarship" for athletes that came from states that bordered Missouri. Now, Athletics has to pay for this while the University is still discounting this for other students that live in bordering states. This meant that athletics was only billed for the "in-state" rate and not the "out-of-state" rate and now they have to pay the out-of-state rate. This is huge. Think about our roster. How many kids come from Kansas, Illinois, Tennessee, Oklahoma or Iowa? The count was 60 last year with the majority coming from Illinois. The cost of tuition per credit hour is $235.00 for in-state students and $475.20 out-of-state students. That is more than double the rate so this is forcing athletics to do more with less.

Think about it. Can anyone tell me for any other reason than budget as to why UCM doesn't have an OC yet?

Not out of touch at all. Just saying that when compared to Southern, the empire builders in Wburg can't convince me that 1 or 2 longer road trips a year is going to hurt them.

[NWHoops]

Pred, you seem to be out of touch with the true economic issues schools are facing. I can not speak for NW but I can tell you that enrollment is down for UCM and has led to difficult decisions needing to be made at UCM. Everyone had to cut budgets and this included athletics. Some sports this means traveling the same morning of an event others it is something else. I was informed from a reliable source that the the model for scholarship money now truly for the in-state equivalent. In the past, the University augmented by paying the 'Scholarship" for athletes that came from states that bordered Missouri. Now, Athletics has to pay for this while the University is still discounting this for other students that live in bordering states. This meant that athletics was only billed for the "in-state" rate and not the "out-of-state" rate and now they have to pay the out-of-state rate. This is huge. Think about our roster. How many kids come from Kansas, Illinois, Tennessee, Oklahoma or Iowa? The count was 60 last year with the majority coming from Illinois. The cost of tuition per credit hour is $235.00 for in-state students and $475.20 out-of-state students. That is more than double the rate so this is forcing athletics to do more with less.

Think about it. Can anyone tell me for any other reason than budget as to why UCM doesn't have an OC yet?

That's good info for UCM. This isn't specific to NW but just in general for higher ed. Enrollment is getting ready to take a dive off a cliff in 2025 (approximately 18 years after the Great Recession) and the data says it will stay that way for a good 5 years based on birth rates. The institutions that are smart are definitely looking at this and planning for it. In addition, to enrollment being down now and getting ready to be even more in the future, that impacts the credit hour totals that are subject to fees such as athletic fees that many universities use. The next 5-10 years is going to be very rough in higher education.

I would like to see ooc games but understand if schools are making the best financial decisions for the entire University. Hopefully the conferences can develop a plan for ooc games that don't significantly impact budgets.

[Gorilla John 92]

Cost issues:
Were any of the schools that are hurting for cash/low spenders in the conference against this? If so, I'll listen, but when NW and UCM talk about costs, I laugh, a lot.

Pred, you seem to be out of touch with the true economic issues schools are facing. I can not speak for NW but I can tell you that enrollment is down for UCM and has led to difficult decisions needing to be made at UCM. Everyone had to cut budgets and this included athletics. Some sports this means traveling the same morning of an event others it is something else. I was informed from a reliable source that the the model for scholarship money now truly for the in-state equivalent. In the past, the University augmented by paying the 'Scholarship" for athletes that came from states that bordered Missouri. Now, Athletics has to pay for this while the University is still discounting this for other students that live in bordering states. This meant that athletics was only billed for the "in-state" rate and not the "out-of-state" rate and now they have to pay the out-of-state rate. This is huge. Think about our roster. How many kids come from Kansas, Illinois, Tennessee, Oklahoma or Iowa? The count was 60 last year with the majority coming from Illinois. The cost of tuition per credit hour is $235.00 for in-state students and $475.20 out-of-state students. That is more than double the rate so this is forcing athletics to do more with less.

Think about it. Can anyone tell me for any other reason than budget as to why UCM doesn't have an OC yet?