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  • New article: NCAA Power 5 could breakaway from NCAA

    Some interesting thoughts here from writer Dennis Dodd, who interviews a lot of people about Power 5 schools possibly breaking away from the NCAA totally, yes, all sports, not just football:

    https://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...-from-the-fbs/

    That would be the death kneel for the NCAA. I just hope if the NCAA folds up that small colleges have their ducks in a row and are lined up to continue, be it a new division, NAIA or whatever. D-1 athletics has spent their way into oblivion and some schools (see the MAC) are just trying to hang on to their D-1 membership. Many foolish D2 schools went D-1 without the infrastructure or cash to do so, and are dipping into student fees to stay alive -- which I think is wrong. (See Eastern Washington)

    So perhaps reality is hitting home a little more. I've been talking about the D1annabees for a long time and now (yet another cliche idiom by me) the chickens have come home to roost. (I remember a few years ago a Fresno State fan here had da-n near every D-2 school going D-1, and he was good with it.)

    Can't stand the times we're going through right now, but at least college sports-wise, perhaps at the end of this pandemic a little more reality will settle in. Maybe some schools will just have to eliminate the assistant to the assistant video coordinator; or the quality control coach for backup tight ends.

  • #2
    I suppose the GNAC teams could go back to the NAIA if the NCAA falls apart. Probably work out better for them, really.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by IronOre View Post
      I suppose the GNAC teams could go back to the NAIA if the NCAA falls apart. Probably work out better for them, really.
      I could see NAIA having 2 divisions: scholarship and non-scholarship as the D3's will not want to give scholarships in anything. I think the NAIA is run better than the NCAA anyway, NCAA just has the name brand and the money.

      Comment


      • #4
        It would be interesting to see how this would effect Basketball without the power 5 conferences. You'd still have the Big East schools and Villanova, Gonzaga, AAC, and the MVC that all have done well in recent NCAA tournaments for a while now and combine for 3 National Titles in the last 10 years or so. What would happen to them?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by tsull View Post

          So perhaps reality is hitting home a little more. I've been talking about the D1annabees for a long time and now (yet another cliche idiom by me) the chickens have come home to roost. (I remember a few years ago a Fresno State fan here had da-n near every D-2 school going D-1, and he was good with it.).
          That guy was crazy.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Wildcat Khan View Post
            It would be interesting to see how this would effect Basketball without the power 5 conferences. You'd still have the Big East schools and Villanova, Gonzaga, AAC, and the MVC that all have done well in recent NCAA tournaments for a while now and combine for 3 National Titles in the last 10 years or so. What would happen to them?
            Good point, sounds like Power 5 wants to pull away and I think they will. I see the Zags and others negotiating to get into their hoop tournament. Frankly, I don't want to watch a Power 5-only tourney, could care less about those schools, except WSU and some in the Pac-12. I absolutely hate everything about the SEC and hope they lose in everything all the time, same with the Big 12. I can stomach the Big 10 and at times the ACC. I like the Butlers, George Masons of the world.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by tsull View Post

              I think the NAIA is run better than the NCAA anyway, NCAA just has the name brand and the money.
              I have nothing against the NAIA, but it does not have the capacity to absorb a lot of teams.

              A better scenario would be for the NCAA to reduce the requirements for membership to entice high achieving NAIA schools to join.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tsull View Post

                I could see NAIA having 2 divisions: scholarship and non-scholarship as the D3's will not want to give scholarships in anything. I think the NAIA is run better than the NCAA anyway, NCAA just has the name brand and the money.
                We used to say that NAIA stood for No Athletic Investigations Allowed.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Runnin' Cat View Post

                  We used to say that NAIA stood for No Athletic Investigations Allowed.
                  The NCAA is no big boys will be punished, UNC a two-decade academic scandal, nothing. Latest hoops FBI scandal with documented and taped evidence: nothing.

                  NCAA will not exist just for the D2's and D3's. If NAIA took on more schools they would hire more people. I could go either way, but my take is the NAIA is better-run. The NCAA has an enforcement team that doesn't enforce -- unless you're Alcorn A & M tennis that is breaking the rules -- and the NAIA probably has not much of an enforcement team. Same difference.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tsull View Post

                    The NCAA is no big boys will be punished, UNC a two-decade academic scandal, nothing. Latest hoops FBI scandal with documented and taped evidence: nothing.

                    NCAA will not exist just for the D2's and D3's. If NAIA took on more schools they would hire more people. I could go either way, but my take is the NAIA is better-run. The NCAA has an enforcement team that doesn't enforce -- unless you're Alcorn A & M tennis that is breaking the rules -- and the NAIA probably has not much of an enforcement team. Same difference.
                    I typically stay on the PSAC board most, if not all of the time, but I saw this thread pop up, found it interesting and decided to read. Interestingly, for as big of a college sports junkie as I am, I never actually knew that the NAIA was separate the NCAA. In my head, I always just classified it as another division, like Division 1, 2, 3, JUCO. However, now that I think, aren't most JUCOs part of the NAIA?

                    Anyways... I agree with your post tsull. I have been saying for a while that different programs are treated differently by the NCAA and that this has been building for a while now. There's just way too much money involved, and that leads to how the NCAA handles similar situations differently when it comes to different levels of programs. I'm from Pittsburgh. My dad and I are season ticket holders for Pitt football. I always look at that Penn State scandal and shake my head. Penn State largely got off easy and then actually got off on good behavior. I recall them saying that they didn't want to give them the "death penalty" that SMU got in the 1980s because they would economically destroy the town of State College. Had that same scandal occurred at Pitt, the NCAA would wipe that football program off the face of the earth without even batting an eyelash.

                    They pick and choose. Your example of North Carolina is perfect. As well as the FBI investigation into numerous big time coaches and programs in college hoops. The same things occur at lesser programs, they'd throw the kitchen sink at them. "How dare you try to make yourself good like all of the other programs doing illegal things!!"

                    The NCAA, at its highest levels, is basically a "good old boys" network. We used to want teams like Boise State, UCF, etc., to break down the door of the college football establishment. We rooted for those teams (some people still do). Now, the money is too great for the NCAA to allow them to break the glass ceiling, so their willing to go easy on the teams that they know will ultimately prevent those schools from breaking through (re: bowl selection, playoff selection, etc.). The reality is that the NCAA needs Penn State's football program to be highly successful every year. To close the loop on my example, they don't need Pitt. They haven't had Pitt since the 1980s, and college football is light years different today than what it was then, so destroying their program would be an acceptable casualty. They wouldn't necessarily be hurting without them. But Penn State? They need Penn State because they need a massive cult-following to sell out major bowl games, drive television ratings, etc. And please, I'm not some Pitt fan trying to scream about Penn State. The same thing could have happened at Ohio State, Alabama, Clemson, etc., and the result would have been the same in terms of punishment. It's the optics in terms of the punishment they received in comparison to what other schools get for lesser infractions.

                    Boise State, for as strong as they've been for the better part of 15 years, they don't have the same pull as any of the big time programs. People scream and yell about expanding the CFP (which I'm against) to allow for teams like Boise, UCF, etc., to "have a fair shot." The bottom line is that those types of programs don't have the money or the national following to have enough members of their fan base drop everything during the holiday season, travel and fly around the country and drop thousands of dollars going to football games. The result of letting those teams in, especially in an expanded playoff format, would likely result in empty seats and decreased ratings because "the big boys" aren't the ones playing in those games.

                    On the basketball side. The NCAA tournament gets bigger and bigger every single year. They play in more football stadiums every year. They're playing in them earlier every tournament. The NCAA can't destroy UNC, Kansas, Louisville, Arizona, etc., because those are the schools with the fan bases who are willing to shell out every cent necessary to go watch a basketball game on a small court in the middle of a football stadium from the top row.

                    In a round about way, I guess my point is that model of the NCAA is mostly broken in my opinion. I've always been against paying college athletes, and I still am. And for the last few years I have advocated that about a third of the schools playing FBS football should break away from the NCAA and form their own division, league, or whatever you want to call it. This has been a PSAC board discussion before, and I've long stated that there's only about 10-12 schools with the necessary resources that afford them the opportunity to be elite every year. Even though that typically equates to only about 3 teams who have a real shot every year. The gap in FBS football between those 10-12 schools and even the next highest tier of FBS teams is so wide. And it's only getting worse. Even if they didn't break away from the NCAA, I think forming a very small third tier of D1 football would be advantageous, because in reality, those are the only schools with a real shot to win a national championship every year.

                    Sorry for the rant.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by IUP24 View Post

                      I typically stay on the PSAC board most, if not all of the time, but I saw this thread pop up, found it interesting and decided to read. Interestingly, for as big of a college sports junkie as I am, I never actually knew that the NAIA was separate the NCAA. In my head, I always just classified it as another division, like Division 1, 2, 3, JUCO. However, now that I think, aren't most JUCOs part of the NAIA?

                      Anyways... I agree with your post tsull. I have been saying for a while that different programs are treated differently by the NCAA and that this has been building for a while now. There's just way too much money involved, and that leads to how the NCAA handles similar situations differently when it comes to different levels of programs. I'm from Pittsburgh. My dad and I are season ticket holders for Pitt football. I always look at that Penn State scandal and shake my head. Penn State largely got off easy and then actually got off on good behavior. I recall them saying that they didn't want to give them the "death penalty" that SMU got in the 1980s because they would economically destroy the town of State College. Had that same scandal occurred at Pitt, the NCAA would wipe that football program off the face of the earth without even batting an eyelash.

                      They pick and choose. Your example of North Carolina is perfect. As well as the FBI investigation into numerous big time coaches and programs in college hoops. The same things occur at lesser programs, they'd throw the kitchen sink at them. "How dare you try to make yourself good like all of the other programs doing illegal things!!"

                      The NCAA, at its highest levels, is basically a "good old boys" network. We used to want teams like Boise State, UCF, etc., to break down the door of the college football establishment. We rooted for those teams (some people still do). Now, the money is too great for the NCAA to allow them to break the glass ceiling, so their willing to go easy on the teams that they know will ultimately prevent those schools from breaking through (re: bowl selection, playoff selection, etc.). The reality is that the NCAA needs Penn State's football program to be highly successful every year. To close the loop on my example, they don't need Pitt. They haven't had Pitt since the 1980s, and college football is light years different today than what it was then, so destroying their program would be an acceptable casualty. They wouldn't necessarily be hurting without them. But Penn State? They need Penn State because they need a massive cult-following to sell out major bowl games, drive television ratings, etc. And please, I'm not some Pitt fan trying to scream about Penn State. The same thing could have happened at Ohio State, Alabama, Clemson, etc., and the result would have been the same in terms of punishment. It's the optics in terms of the punishment they received in comparison to what other schools get for lesser infractions.

                      Boise State, for as strong as they've been for the better part of 15 years, they don't have the same pull as any of the big time programs. People scream and yell about expanding the CFP (which I'm against) to allow for teams like Boise, UCF, etc., to "have a fair shot." The bottom line is that those types of programs don't have the money or the national following to have enough members of their fan base drop everything during the holiday season, travel and fly around the country and drop thousands of dollars going to football games. The result of letting those teams in, especially in an expanded playoff format, would likely result in empty seats and decreased ratings because "the big boys" aren't the ones playing in those games.

                      On the basketball side. The NCAA tournament gets bigger and bigger every single year. They play in more football stadiums every year. They're playing in them earlier every tournament. The NCAA can't destroy UNC, Kansas, Louisville, Arizona, etc., because those are the schools with the fan bases who are willing to shell out every cent necessary to go watch a basketball game on a small court in the middle of a football stadium from the top row.

                      In a round about way, I guess my point is that model of the NCAA is mostly broken in my opinion. I've always been against paying college athletes, and I still am. And for the last few years I have advocated that about a third of the schools playing FBS football should break away from the NCAA and form their own division, league, or whatever you want to call it. This has been a PSAC board discussion before, and I've long stated that there's only about 10-12 schools with the necessary resources that afford them the opportunity to be elite every year. Even though that typically equates to only about 3 teams who have a real shot every year. The gap in FBS football between those 10-12 schools and even the next highest tier of FBS teams is so wide. And it's only getting worse. Even if they didn't break away from the NCAA, I think forming a very small third tier of D1 football would be advantageous, because in reality, those are the only schools with a real shot to win a national championship every year.

                      Sorry for the rant.
                      Amen brother! Don't be sorry for the rant at all. We have a lot of soap boxes around here so continue to pull one out when you have something to say.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by IUP24 View Post

                        I typically stay on the PSAC board most, if not all of the time, but I saw this thread pop up, found it interesting and decided to read. Interestingly, for as big of a college sports junkie as I am, I never actually knew that the NAIA was separate the NCAA. In my head, I always just classified it as another division, like Division 1, 2, 3, JUCO. However, now that I think, aren't most JUCOs part of the NAIA?
                        No, junior colleges have their own organization (such as the NJCAA).

                        To be in the NAIA, you need to be a four year school.

                        As a comparison, for football, D2 has a max of 36 scholarships, NAIA has a max of 24. (how they are counted and divided differently is a whole long topic on its own)



                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by tsull View Post

                          The NCAA is no big boys will be punished, UNC a two-decade academic scandal, nothing. Latest hoops FBI scandal with documented and taped evidence: nothing.

                          NCAA will not exist just for the D2's and D3's. If NAIA took on more schools they would hire more people. I could go either way, but my take is the NAIA is better-run. The NCAA has an enforcement team that doesn't enforce -- unless you're Alcorn A & M tennis that is breaking the rules -- and the NAIA probably has not much of an enforcement team. Same difference.
                          Nothing yet. The NCAA has yet to complete its investigation of Kansas, and from the sounds of it (presuming they don't blow it the way they blew the Miami football or UNC-Chapel Hill investigations), KU should get hit hard based on the infractions committee reports so far.
                          Cal U (Pa.) Class of 2014

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Tremendous post by wildcat 94, and I thought Penn State had its entire athletic department shut down for five years. An institution simply can't look the other way on issues of child endangerment and abuse.

                            I'm all for division 2 and staying there if the NCAA stays put. But if there is a break away from power 5, the NCAA will not stick around to help division II and division 3.

                            I live in Boise, and everything wildcat 94 said about BSU is correct. I like March madness in the unknown schools that can provide upsets now and then, but the NCAA will not raise a finger to help them either.

                            if power 5 breaks off in the NCAA implodes, I would be in favor of D2 and D3 joining the divisions of NAIA. If the NCAA does not implode, I would be in favor of staying division 2.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tsull View Post
                              Tremendous post by wildcat 94, and I thought Penn State had its entire athletic department shut down for five years. An institution simply can't look the other way on issues of child endangerment and abuse.

                              I'm all for division 2 and staying there if the NCAA stays put. But if there is a break away from power 5, the NCAA will not stick around to help division II and division 3.

                              I live in Boise, and everything wildcat 94 said about BSU is correct. I like March madness in the unknown schools that can provide upsets now and then, but the NCAA will not raise a finger to help them either.

                              if power 5 breaks off in the NCAA implodes, I would be in favor of D2 and D3 joining the divisions of NAIA. If the NCAA does not implode, I would be in favor of staying division 2.
                              You got the wrong guy tsull!! haha

                              I'm the newbie on your page

                              Comment

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