West Coast Football

[tsull]

This isn't political and I don't want to get into politics on a sports board, I'm just going to say that on the west coast there's a much different mentality towards college football than anywhere else in America.

Small college football is really dismissed in the Pacific Northwest and in California. I live in Idaho and until a couple years ago when the College of Idaho had restarted the sport, there was no small college football in the state for five or six decades.

I've been to the campuses of some of those nameless, faceless California State University schools that dropped or don't have football. They are like those businesses that shut down at 5:00 p.m. and you wish they were open because you just got off of work. They are ghost towns and commuter schools with no life to them at all. But many professors and administrators like it like that, like Azusa Pacific, where they can just go about their way, get 400 people a game to basketball and look down their noses at football playing schools.

There are no Northwest Missouri's, Grand Valley's, or Pittsburgh State's, out west.

[Wildcat Khan]

This isn't political and I don't want to get into politics on a sports board, I'm just going to say that on the west coast there's a much different mentality towards college football than anywhere else in America.

Small college football is really dismissed in the Pacific Northwest and in California. I live in Idaho and until a couple years ago when the College of Idaho had restarted the sport, there was no small college football in the state for five or six decades.

I've been to the campuses of some of those nameless, faceless California State University schools that dropped or don't have football. They are like those businesses that shut down at 5:00 p.m. and you wish they were open because you just got off of work. They are ghost towns and commuter schools with no life to them at all. But many professors and administrators like it like that, like Azusa Pacific, where they can just go about their way, get 400 people a game to basketball and look down their noses at football playing schools.

There are no Northwest Missouri's, Grand Valley's, or Pittsburgh State's, out west.

And it is a real shame for those kids wanting to continue to play football and want to play near home, but don't have D1 talent. I'd say most small school kids are playing for the love of the game unlike at the big schools, so having that opportunity for them would be nice.

Think about it, the largest state in the US by population has no non-D1 football available... none. Those kids all have to go out of state. I'm not counting JC's as they aren't four years.

[tsull]

And it is a real shame for those kids wanting to continue to play football and want to play near home, but don't have D1 talent. I'd say most small school kids are playing for the love of the game unlike at the big schools, so having that opportunity for them would be nice.

Think about it, the largest state in the US by population has no non-D1 football available... none. Those kids all have to go out of state. I'm not counting JC's as they aren't four years.

Thousands of California kids with no opportunities, add no marching band, take away those opportunities. Add students who want internships in sports information, marketing, etc., and certainly those opportunities are reduced, as are students who want to go into coaching. The money saved is to add administrative salary or add administrators, yet not one student in the history of mankind ever attended a college because of administration. The school closes up at 4 p.m., no Saturday work, no extra night work for those in athletics during the fall, but the same nice salary.

The admin knows they can get away with it, the pushback is minimal, their salaries stay the same. The absolute last thing they care about is reduced opportunities for students.

When WOU joined the GNAC, Chico, Hayward (East Bay), and Sonoma, were cutting the sport. Would've been cool to have a California portion of the league. The money saved to cut the sport is evened out with more than 100 students not attending.

[Runnin' Cat]

I think most people see private as automatically better than public - probably because they are more expensive, therefore more "exclusive" and more academically rigorous. In the modern day, most college attendees just need the degree to check off a box on the job application anyway, so why spend 4x more for the same credential? Just because the name sounds nicer? It doesn't make much sense to me. I can understand why someone would go to Carleton, Whitman, Brown, Duke - etc., over Regional State University - but I don't see why someone would go to the University of St. Thomas or any other random private school with an 80% acceptance in lieu of somewhere cheaper.

Some schools around here are notorious for their alumni looking down their noses at people who didn't go to their school - but their schools are usually less exclusive than local public options. People value really weird things in regards to higher ed.

In regards to your second point - that's the worst. I experienced some of that, mostly from career academics. I get annoyed when they demanded to be called "Dr." or "Professor." I always do it out of respect, but it's tacky when you put it in the syllabus. They are the ones who also keep flaunting their "experience," "accomplishments," and "credentials" at every opportunity - for the sake of bragging. My favorite professors often used that stuff constructively - but they also had the real-world experience to talk about, not just experience they got in their graduate or doctoral programs.

Funny thing is, I had one professor who did her undergrad at Harvard - she never spoke of it. I had another professor who went to Georgetown, he did mention it but just in casual class conversation (I think Nova beat Georgetown the night before or something). Then my favorite three - a big time lawyer, an upper level manager, and a successful career businessman - all used their experiences constructively. You can tell in their delivery and tone of voice what their intentions are. Two of them didn't even have PhDs, oddly enough.

Best professors I had in Accounting were two people that had been CFOs of companies. They were able to take the lessons at hand and put a real world experience to it. I think they both had MS Accounting degrees, but more important they had real life experience.

I think you get that more times at a smaller university. Sure helped me.

[SW_Mustang]

Best professors I had in Accounting were two people that had been CFOs of companies. They were able to take the lessons at hand and put a real world experience to it. I think they both had MS Accounting degrees, but more important they had real life experience.

I think you get that more times at a smaller university. Sure helped me.

One of our alumni had an important role at the Fox News mothership - he came back to campus to speak with us a couple years ago. It was really surreal, honestly - there were maybe only 7-8 people who came to his talk, but it was amazing to hear what he had to say about his daily job responsibilities and how... well, how the President was largely responsible for how his day went.

Anyway, he told us that thinking small allowed him to get hands-on experience. He said that small-college communications departments often allow kids to get their hands on the equipment and to gain experience, whereas larger colleges have limited time and resources in relation to the amount of students they have. He went small with his internships and built his way up. Very fascinating person.

[SW_Mustang]

Ha, that crazy prof I had topped out at a Master's and other profs would get really mad when students -- mostly 1st generation from very small towns, who were just trying to be polite -- would call him Dr. I knew the difference, but chuckled at the other profs getting wound up by this. The crazy prof could teach, knew his stuff.

Life is a lot easier when you're not keeping score on your co-workers or harboring professional jealousy.

Towards the end of my degree, I quit caring about the superficial stuff. It doesn't matter what piece of paper a professor has, or even what work experience they have - I'm paying you to teach me, I'm going to get what I need out of this. I really knocked heads with some faculty towards the end of my degree - my advisor also got a little frustrated with me because I was in charge of what classes I took (we were advised by our faculty).

[SW_Mustang]

And it is a real shame for those kids wanting to continue to play football and want to play near home, but don't have D1 talent. I'd say most small school kids are playing for the love of the game unlike at the big schools, so having that opportunity for them would be nice.

Think about it, the largest state in the US by population has no non-D1 football available... none. Those kids all have to go out of state. I'm not counting JC's as they aren't four years.

They have a handful of D3 schools, but I totally get your point. No NAIA, no D2... just JUCO and D1.

[crixus]

They have a handful of D3 schools, but I totally get your point. No NAIA, no D2... just JUCO and D1.

Handful? There's eight D3 football teams within 130 miles of each other in the Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference.

[SW_Mustang]

Handful? There's eight D3 football teams within 130 miles of each other in the Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference.

That's it? Wow.

Handful was quite generous.

[crixus]

This isn't political and I don't want to get into politics on a sports board, I'm just going to say that on the west coast there's a much different mentality towards college football than anywhere else in America.

Small college football is really dismissed in the Pacific Northwest and in California. I live in Idaho and until a couple years ago when the College of Idaho had restarted the sport, there was no small college football in the state for five or six decades.

I've been to the campuses of some of those nameless, faceless California State University schools that dropped or don't have football. They are like those businesses that shut down at 5:00 p.m. and you wish they were open because you just got off of work. They are ghost towns and commuter schools with no life to them at all. But many professors and administrators like it like that, like Azusa Pacific, where they can just go about their way, get 400 people a game to basketball and look down their noses at football playing schools.

There are no Northwest Missouri's, Grand Valley's, or Pittsburgh State's, out west.

As a native Californian and a graduate of a Cal State university I hear ya. I've read several articles on the topic, and the lack of interest and low fan turn out has been blamed on good weather (people would rather be doing other things outdoors) and the diversity on our campuses (lot's of students from other countries that aren't interested in football). And then there's the commuter excuse which is the least viable to me because the average commute is less than ten miles. Most of the people in California came here from somewhere else and keep an allegiance to the teams from back East or wherever they came from. And that's why you'll see people wearing gear from all over the country out here. Now I've always supported college football in my area and will continue to. I live in San Diego county and go to games at San Diego State even though I went to their rival San Jose State. My wife went to the University of Redlands, so we drive up there to see Bulldogs games as well (that's over a 260 mile round trip). But were just two people and won't be able to turn the tide by ourselves. ;)

[tsull]

Towards the end of my degree, I quit caring about the superficial stuff. It doesn't matter what piece of paper a professor has, or even what work experience they have - I'm paying you to teach me, I'm going to get what I need out of this. I really knocked heads with some faculty towards the end of my degree - my advisor also got a little frustrated with me because I was in charge of what classes I took (we were advised by our faculty).

I just went to SMSU's (SW Minnesota, guessing that's your alma mater, no other SMSU's out there, right?) website.It looks good and it appears they are trying to attract local students, thankfully that world class leaders stuff is not on there. Impressed with the athletic facilities. I like my alma mater's website; my favorite might be Arkansas Tech's, they really have good wording and mission statements.

[The Librarian]

I've been to the campuses of some of those nameless, faceless California State University schools that dropped or don't have football. They are like those businesses that shut down at 5:00 p.m. and you wish they were open because you just got off of work. They are ghost towns and commuter schools with no life to them at all. But many professors and administrators like it like that, like Azusa Pacific, where they can just go about their way, get 400 people a game to basketball and look down their noses at football playing schools.

I'm pretty sure you know this, but Azusa Pacific is not a state school. One of the largest evangelical universities in the country actually. We have had a long and proud football program. Our dropping football was not an administration that hated football. It comes down to money. We had financially issues 2 years ago. Compound that with the UC system and the CSU systems allowing more transfer students and APU loses some of our student body. Now, add COVID in one of the most restricted counties in the country and we have no money. We try, but when our football team has its closest away game being Western Oregon, plane trips and the football program gets expensive.

As an aside, I saw the UO donation of 300 million, that is more than our entire annual budget. Yes, there is a huge difference between a large state school and a private university.

Peace

[crixus]

I'm pretty sure you know this, but Azusa Pacific is not a state school. One of the largest evangelical universities in the country actually. We have had a long and proud football program. Our dropping football was not an administration that hated football. It comes down to money. We had financially issues 2 years ago. Compound that with the UC system and the CSU systems allowing more transfer students and APU loses some of our student body. Now, add COVID in one of the most restricted counties in the country and we have no money. We try, but when our football team has its closest away game being Western Oregon, plane trips and the football program gets expensive.

As an aside, I saw the UO donation of 300 million, that is more than our entire annual budget. Yes, there is a huge difference between a large state school and a private university.

Peace

Great post. Best wishes to you and Cougar athletics. My wife and I went to the Brian Clay Track Invitational at Azusa Pacific in 2018 and we had a great time.

[tsull]

I'm pretty sure you know this, but Azusa Pacific is not a state school. One of the largest evangelical universities in the country actually. We have had a long and proud football program. Our dropping football was not an administration that hated football. It comes down to money. We had financially issues 2 years ago. Compound that with the UC system and the CSU systems allowing more transfer students and APU loses some of our student body. Now, add COVID in one of the most restricted counties in the country and we have no money. We try, but when our football team has its closest away game being Western Oregon, plane trips and the football program gets expensive.

As an aside, I saw the UO donation of 300 million, that is more than our entire annual budget. Yes, there is a huge difference between a large state school and a private university.

Peace

If you're one of the largest evangelical universities in the nation, you have money; and you just lost 100 students. Using Christian Okoye in the press release was lame, too, him saying it's a great thing that football is being cut. I get the travel and all that, play some home games, play some D3's at home, some local I-AA's (Cal Poly, University of San Diego); put together a schedule. I'll disagree with the California-quitter mentality. I love the state, but I don't like their approach to college football. No, it was anti-football administration, and they're laughing it up right now as they keep their same salaries with half the work.

[tsull]

As a native Californian and a graduate of a Cal State university I hear ya. I've read several articles on the topic, and the lack of interest and low fan turn out has been blamed on good weather (people would rather be doing other things outdoors) and the diversity on our campuses (lot's of students from other countries that aren't interested in football). And then there's the commuter excuse which is the least viable to me because the average commute is less than ten miles. Most of the people in California came here from somewhere else and keep an allegiance to the teams from back East or wherever they came from. And that's why you'll see people wearing gear from all over the country out here. Now I've always supported college football in my area and will continue to. I live in San Diego county and go to games at San Diego State even though I went to their rival San Jose State. My wife went to the University of Redlands, so we drive up there to see Bulldogs games as well (that's over a 260 mile round trip). But were just two people and won't be able to turn the tide by ourselves. ;)

That's a great post and I get the culture of the state. What it comes down to is trying and wanting to be something in football. I'd respect APU more if they didn't bring out an NFL legend and say they had to drop football. Why not just say we don't like the sport and don't want the sport. Linfield would be Lewis & Clark or Pacific in the fall and in sports (note, L & C and Pacific aren't very good at sports), they have the same tuition costs, similar enrollment. Linfield has around 70 straight winning football seasons and overflow crowds on Saturdays in McMinnville, Oregon. Why? They care.

UC Davis is one of the few UC schools that has football. They have a deep tradition and have produced some good collegiate coaches (Mike Bellotti, a Chico grad but UC Davis asst.; Chris Petersen; Dan Hawkins, etc.). They've won a lot of games, they're trying to build a $40M athletic facility. Why? Because they care. When I was in college, Whitworth was the dregs of the earth in pretty much all sports. Now they compete with Linfield in football and usually win their conference and go deep into the D3 national men's hoop tournament. Why? They care. WWU dropped football despite a decent tradition. Why? They didn't care.

You either try hard and care or you don't ... it's not much more complex than that.