Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

West Coast Football

Collapse

Support The Site!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • West Coast Football

    Is it me or is it fair to say that football on the west is down the list of things to do for the average person. Even attendance in the Pac 12 is significantly lower that other Power 5 conferences. Football def is not the religion here that it is in the south and most of the midwest. I am sad to say attending football games is not a priority here.

  • #2
    I don't think it's ever been that big of a sport on the west coast, but at one time USC was a national power, the University of Washington was pretty darn good for many years, and there was a general interest in the sport.

    Pac-12 conference leadership has been horrific and they don't even know how to support their main money-making sport.

    Regarding small colleges, there used to be a lot more that played the sport and they've slowly chopped it way down, to college presidents' delight.

    The best major college high school talent in the west coast heads to the South or the Midwest to play football in college. The top division 2 on down type players in California have nowhere to go, and I'm guessing they just quit the sport. It seems like the state of Washington still has a pretty robust prep football scene, in Oregon I'm not sure as the same couple schools seem to win state every year.

    I would say there's an underlying anti-football sentiment on the west coast, and schools like Asuzu Pacific and Humboldt State certainly don't help the cause.

    Comment


    • #3
      We have better beer out here, so whatever

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by CWU Wildcat Nation View Post
        We have better beer out here, so whatever
        Myth created by NW beer makers.

        I'd rather have good football.

        Comment


        • #5
          I think on the coasts you may be right, but in the interior, football seems to be a bigger priority. Utah and Idaho are full of football crazy mormons, and programs like Dixie state, southern Utah, and the bigger D1 programs seem to reflect that. Not to mention, that BYU and Boise should be in the PAC12 but I digress.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by purduefan11 View Post
            I think on the coasts you may be right, but in the interior, football seems to be a bigger priority. Utah and Idaho are full of football crazy mormons, and programs like Dixie state, southern Utah, and the bigger D1 programs seem to reflect that. Not to mention, that BYU and Boise should be in the PAC12 but I digress.
            No. BSU is a glorified JC. Academically, they would be significantly lower than the lowest Pac 12 school. They have no other athletic programs even close to Pac 12 standards.

            BYU will not be Pac 12 because of their affiliation.

            I lived in Boise and had to endure the BSU TO THE PAC 12 nonsense. Not a fit on any level let alone that BSU would be the lowest funded program in the Pac by a long shot. They would be a bottom feeder and not have the pull they have in the MWC.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Runnin' Cat View Post

              No. BSU is a glorified JC. Academically, they would be significantly lower than the lowest Pac 12 school. They have no other athletic programs even close to Pac 12 standards.

              BYU will not be Pac 12 because of their affiliation.

              I lived in Boise and had to endure the BSU TO THE PAC 12 nonsense. Not a fit on any level let alone that BSU would be the lowest funded program in the Pac by a long shot. They would be a bottom feeder and not have the pull they have in the MWC.
              BYU fits in the WCC for non-football as religious school, but their basketball arena is the largest by far. Even then that Jesuit school in Spokane out recruits them in basketball. It would be nice though for them to find a home for football and the only possible I see for them may be the Big 12 in the Power 5. I know they are also looking at the American (formerly Big East football), in the other money sport the WCC is already on par with the American by most metrics and they still have a legit chance at the tourney (predicted 6 or 7 seed in canceled tournament) and pick up multiple winnable quad 1 games in conference. I also think that they like that double bye to the conference semis if they get in the top 2.

              The real truth is that the East Cost has 2 Power conferences (ACC and SEC, Big East added if basketball), the Midwest 2 (B1G and Big 12), while the West is left with just the Pac-12. If the MWC could raise its level and funding, perhaps it could be what is needed. I know they even reached out to Gonzaga to join in recent years as a non-football school to boost the basketball power and perception by getting the top West Coast basketball program in both men's and women's hoops combined.
              Last edited by Wildcat Khan; 12-31-2020, 12:52 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tsull View Post

                Myth created by NW beer makers.
                Not a myth. But it's not by a long distance. A lot of places have always had good stuff, many other places are getting better. This is why competition is often good. The ethic that the Northwest reminded everyone else about is that local ingredients were always ideal for local breweries. So San Diego will have some damn fine stuff Oregon cannot reproduce because local fruits make for different stuff. But the better hops come from here. Meanwhile, pro IPA or anti IPA? :D

                Over 20 years, participation in football has fallen by more than 20% in Oregon high schools. Somewhere around 15% in California. More like 9% in Washington. None of these populations are shrinking... but California is still an entry point for foreign money, new inhabitants, etc. It's also the raging economic engine of the world, specifically Silicon Valley. Large parts of the country reflect Washington's decline, though obviously not Texas. This includes lots of places that are by NO means liberal. But that's a secondary issue, other than for the fact that the sheer numbers in California create more athletic competition if you can muster the numbers. It really does look like the Pac-12 is suffering from those declines... and smaller schools moreso.

                I got pushback for a different comment I made... which might have been a guilt-by-association issue. When Concordia closed, the Portland media started drawing attention to problems other schools are having with enrollment and admissions. I know KGW ran something about Linfield and that probably instigated the "they were close to closing" comment. I can't find corroboration on that, and I apologize for that. HOWEVER... KGW did focus on something regarding Linfield and other schools. The problems administrators are facing stem from a steady upcoming reduction in traditional school-age populations, as well as the number of people who simply don't want to incur mountains of college debt. Despite population increases, the population of high school graduates is expected to drop for the foreseeable future. It's one thing to wonder where you will find quality players... it's another thing to try to build a future fan base from a dwindling population. Smaller schools are increasingly trying to survive by recruiting foreign students... and far more often than not, those kids can hardly comprehend college athletics. Back stateside, a large number of the kids these colleges want to recruit have grown up online, having chosen to watch what the interwebs provide and thus never having a cord to cut. I could start watching football back in the day because it was before cable television; that's what was on during the weekends. Try to imagine a time when you had to wait 10 years between TV appearances for University of Oregon football. This is the era of "YouTube stars." My daughter can surf for eons without ever even encountering an ad for sports programming.

                You guys want to blame careless or greedy administrators. Some of that is true. I argue that desperation creates mistakes. I ask that you keep this in mind.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Wildcat Khan View Post

                  BYU fits in the WCC for non-football as religious school, but their basketball arena is the largest by far. Even then that Jesuit school in Spokane out recruits them in basketball. It would be nice though for them to find a home for football and the only possible I see for them may be the Big 12 in the Power 5. I know they are also looking at the American (formerly Big East football), in the other money sport the WCC is already on par with the American by most metrics and they still have a legit chance at the tourney (predicted 6 or 7 seed in canceled tournament) and pick up multiple winnable quad 1 games in conference. I also think that they like that double bye to the conference semis if they get in the top 2.

                  The real truth is that the East Cost has 2 Power conferences (ACC and SEC, Big East added if basketball), the Midwest 2 (B1G and Big 12), while the West is left with just the Pac-12. If the MWC could raise its level and funding, perhaps it could be what is needed. I know they even reached out to Gonzaga to join in recent years as a non-football school to boost the basketball power and perception by getting the top West Coast basketball program in both men's and women's hoops combined.
                  How do you know they were approached by the Pac 12? I know there have been sportswriters suggest it, but the Pac 12 has had a staunch "must have football" mentality. It sounds like a pipe dream.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    IMO - I don't think CA schools "need" the marketing outreach or enrollment that having a football program would provide. Same might be said for WA and OR too - though I don't know as much about higher ed in those two states. Students will come to school in California because the school is in California. Most in middle America don't want to admit it, but CA is still a very desirable place to live - especially for those aged 18-25. What would Fullerton gain from adding an FCS program? Obviously there are exceptions, but they've thrived without them for the most part - so why add it?

                    On top of that, UC is also nationally (and maybe even internationally) respected for it's academic rigor. Irvine and SD don't need a football program to stand out when their academics do it for them. It's a very desirable system to be a member of - it's one of, if not the top state system in the entire country (perhaps only rivaled by Texas).

                    That all being said - I really wish CA had more college football programs at the four-year level, and especially for small schools. I think many of them could sustain a program.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Runnin' Cat View Post

                      How do you know they were approached by the Pac 12? I know there have been sportswriters suggest it, but the Pac 12 has had a staunch "must have football" mentality. It sounds like a pipe dream.
                      They were approached by the Mountain West, not the Pac-12 for Gonzaga. I was more saying there isn't a power conference fit in the West for them unlike the Big East for East coast teams like Villanova and Creighton. The same is true for BYU, but others have already detailed that to their religious ties. That is why I say Big 12 would likely be the best power conference home for BYU who would be rejoining former conference mate TCU.

                      https://www.sbnation.com/2018/4/2/17...ce-realignment for information on the Mountain West pursuing them and it definitely would have raised the competition level of MWC basketball.
                      Last edited by Wildcat Khan; 12-31-2020, 10:42 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Here's a question that I have for you west coasters... What is the situation regarding CCCAA football?

                        To elaborate, the CCCAA has 66 teams. The NJCAA has 54 teams. The NJCAA membership is five times that of the CCCAA. The NJCAA operates in 16 states, with only 6 of those having more than 1 program. The top three states operate 55% of all programs as well (Kansas, Mississippi, Minnesota). Even if we account for the 10 NJCAA programs lost since 2018, the CCCAA still comes out ahead.

                        So - what makes JUCO football so viable in CA when they struggle with NCAA/NAIA? Is it the weather? Proximity of schools? Alumni support? Public funding? What makes JUCO football so non-viable everywhere else? Lastly, what kind of fan support do the CCCAA schools get on gameday? Some of their stadiums seem to be quite large by comparison.

                        I found this article from a student newspaper in Florida - but it's just that, a student newspaper. The author comes to the conclusion that it's simply just money and cites FBS numbers to support his claim. Money is always a component, and the lack of revenue at the JUCO level doesn't help - but I can't imagine the answer is that simple.

                        https://thebrowardcollegeobserver.co...rately-needed/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Great conversation going on here. Thanks, Mustang.

                          Regarding California Junior College football, that's a great question and I don't know all the answers. I think that most of the conferences have a great culture and want to keep the sport at their school.

                          Having done an internship at a community college in the Northwest, I can tell you that most of the students are kind of drifting around taking credits here or there and not getting associate degrees. Junior college football players are usually on a pretty tight two-year track ready to get their associate degrees and move on to a four-year school to play football or at least go on and graduate.

                          Regarding University of California schools, I would agree, that there's not a lot of incentive for something like UC Irvine, a high academic school, to have football. UC Davis keeps it because they have a tremendous culture and tradition.

                          I think the California State University schools, would benefit by adding football and bringing more male students to campus, and creating some kind of unity at their schools instead of being these boring commuter institutions.
                          Last edited by tsull; 01-02-2021, 03:12 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tsull View Post
                            Great conversation going on here. Thanks, Mustang.

                            Regarding California Junior College football, that's a great question and I don't know all the answers. I think that most of the conferences have a great culture and want to keep the sport at their school.

                            Having done an internship at a community college in the Northwest, I can tell you that most of the students are kind of drifting around taking credits here or there and not getting associate degrees. Junior college football players are usually on a pretty tight two-year track ready to get their associate degrees and move on to a four-year school to play football or at least go on and graduate.

                            Regarding University of California schools, I would agree, that there's not a lot of incentive for something like UC irvine, a high academic school, to have football. You see Davis keeps it because they have a tremendous culture and tradition.

                            I think the California State University schools, would benefit by adding football and bringing more male students to campus, and creating some kind of unity at their schools instead of being these boring commuter institutions.
                            Thanks!

                            I have a program from the 1948 Junior Rose Bowl - Compton vs. Duluth. Back then, it wasn't uncommon for the Junior game to match or even outdraw the regular Rose Bowl. It was a huge deal. JUCO has slowly dwindled in the rest of the US, but has hung on in CA. I'd even argue it's become a staple of the college football landscape - it seems like a lot of kids are trying to get in to the system out there. The same can't be said here in Minnesota, IMO. Our programs just kind of "exist" - with maybe one or two actually being competitive.

                            I don't know much about Davis, it will give me something to read this weekend. I did think it was curious as to how they had a program when none of the other UCs besides Cal/LA did, and at the FCS level no less. It looks like they are one of the older schools in the state, so that makes sense. Interesting.

                            We are definitely in agreement with CSU. Fullerton was a bad example - I don't know a ton about them, but they've carved out a niche for themselves in baseball, and that seems to be their calling card. That's how I know about them. Humboldt never should have dropped football, and I can probably find 5-6 CSUs that would benefit from having one on a quick Google search. CSU-LA would be kind of cool, if they could find the space to play. I just don't think most admins see it the same way. They often don't like "investing" in their organization - they want to maintain the status quo. I've dealt with that a handful of times.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SW_Mustang View Post

                              Thanks!

                              I have a program from the 1948 Junior Rose Bowl - Compton vs. Duluth. Back then, it wasn't uncommon for the Junior game to match or even outdraw the regular Rose Bowl. It was a huge deal. JUCO has slowly dwindled in the rest of the US, but has hung on in CA. I'd even argue it's become a staple of the college football landscape - it seems like a lot of kids are trying to get in to the system out there. The same can't be said here in Minnesota, IMO. Our programs just kind of "exist" - with maybe one or two actually being competitive.

                              I don't know much about Davis, it will give me something to read this weekend. I did think it was curious as to how they had a program when none of the other UCs besides Cal/LA did, and at the FCS level no less. It looks like they are one of the older schools in the state, so that makes sense. Interesting.

                              We are definitely in agreement with CSU. Fullerton was a bad example - I don't know a ton about them, but they've carved out a niche for themselves in baseball, and that seems to be their calling card. That's how I know about them. Humboldt never should have dropped football, and I can probably find 5-6 CSUs that would benefit from having one on a quick Google search. CSU-LA would be kind of cool, if they could find the space to play. I just don't think most admins see it the same way. They often don't like "investing" in their organization - they want to maintain the status quo. I've dealt with that a handful of times.
                              Good stuff, and I think on the west coast, it is a culture thing and many people here don't know about small college athletics, many others think it's worthless. In a comments section on a small college football story in The Oregonian, one person wrote, "They should eliminate all small college sports." She didn't say why, just that they should do it. When I worked at that community college, my supervisor said they should cut all sports at the school, then months later I saw him at a UO sporting event. He's one of those guys that thinks only the big boys should play, when in reality small college sports is the last bastion of amateurism and purity in collegiate athletics.

                              I once picked up a book I thought was about Linfield College football. It was written by a prof. It was a rip job by a faculty member on the football program -- yes, she got it published -- 100 pages in, I returned it to the library (thank goodness I didn't buy it). Football at Linfield has been a boon to the school in enrollment, alumni support, publicity, and community gathering.

                              It's all culture and whether you want it, or what good or bad president is running it. Amazingly, an east coast president can swoop into Arcata, California, cut the sport -- despite that they drew 5K-8K a game -- deny money raised for the sport, have the A.D. support her decision, then retire and leave town unscathed, damaging the school and the community. It's stunning she got away with this.

                              So on the west coast, yes, there is an anti-football sentiment, big time. It would be interesting to see what a CSU-LA could do, play at a local high school, provide opportunities to inner city prep football players, be something besides a faceless commuter school. Chico, Stanislaus, Sonoma, Hayward (East Bay), San Bernadino, etc., all could pull it off if they wanted to. They don't want to, it's takes vision and WORK. Why work it when you're going to get your 6-figure salary whether you check out at 3:30 p.m. or you're grinding away till 8 p.m.? Administrators are dumb, but they're not that dumb. They simply don't want to work it and there's no accountability.

                              Comment

                              Ad3

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X