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  • #31
    Originally posted by Wildcat Khan View Post

    I remember when they even had a sign on I-5 at 2 exits saying this way to WOU (North and South ends of Salem). I get that Salem has grown, but CWU still has those exit signs at both exits and the one for EWU in Cheney mentions NCAA football national champions. I think Washington may do a better job on freeways of promoting small colleges as even Whitman University has signs pointing how to get to it from Highway 12.
    Yes, they still have those signs on I-5, nice to get that up though one has to wind all the way through Salem and then 15 miles on roads to get to Monmouth. It's not quick and easy, but I'm glad the signs are there.

    I see Phil Knight gave $300 million to the UO last year, that's about his typical annual donation. Small colleges don't have that, they need to try harder. Really hoping the next WOU president is an enrollment guy, provosts/deans/department chairs can take care of the academics. If they don't have any students to teach, that's a problem, and programs get cut. Enrollment first!

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Wildcat Khan View Post

      What makes it worse! A star receiver on the local NFL team for Mankato. I say point that out and make these people eat their words after they acknowledge Theilein is a good player. If he were an NFL scrub it would be one thing, but he is making highlight plays almost weekly.

      Where I live, no college sports. Metro area of 300k, no D1, no D2, no D3, no NAIA. That may describe the West Coast the best. What do we have? A single A baseball team and a WHL junior hockey team and that is it.
      He is a star NFL player and wasn't even a D2 AA.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by tsull View Post

        Yes, they still have those signs on I-5, nice to get that up though one has to wind all the way through Salem and then 15 miles on roads to get to Monmouth. It's not quick and easy, but I'm glad the signs are there.

        I see Phil Knight gave $300 million to the UO last year, that's about his typical annual donation. Small colleges don't have that, they need to try harder. Really hoping the next WOU president is an enrollment guy, provosts/deans/department chairs can take care of the academics. If they don't have any students to teach, that's a problem, and programs get cut. Enrollment first!
        It's sad......Knight could give $295 million to UO and $1 million to each of the small schools and it would make a bigger impact at the small schools.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Brandon View Post

          He is a star NFL player and wasn't even a D2 AA.
          He's a great player ... hello Minnesotans, wake up! Do they think Theilein played for the Golden Gophers or something?

          WOU has a starting receiver in the NFL in Tyrell Williams, hurt all this year, signed a huge deal with Oakland, er Las Vegas ... I'd argue he was the 2nd best receiver on his collegiate team behind Paul Revis, who at 5-9 wasn't going to play in the NFL. I was stunned at the receiving talent at WOU at that time.

          Humboldt and Azusa RB's also got some NFL looks and Watson of APU made a roster; Gardner played in the pre-season. There's some talent in the GNAC and of course, all across the D2 country.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by tsull View Post

            He's a great player ... hello Minnesotans, wake up! Do they think Theilein played for the Golden Gophers or something?

            WOU has a starting receiver in the NFL in Tyrell Williams, hurt all this year, signed a huge deal with Oakland, er Las Vegas ... I'd argue he was the 2nd best receiver on his collegiate team behind Paul Revis, who at 5-9 wasn't going to play in the NFL. I was stunned at the receiving talent at WOU at that time.

            Humboldt and Azusa RB's also got some NFL looks and Watson of APU made a roster; Gardner played in the pre-season. There's some talent in the GNAC and of course, all across the D2 country.
            WOU also has a Super Bowl Champion with an amazing catch in Kevin Boss too. CWU at one point had two players in the NFL with one a kick returner for the Jets and the other being Kitna, but they of course were both NAIA players. WWU had a punter that had a great long career. The GNAC has a great list and let's also not forget Christian Okoye went to APU back in the 80's as he may be the best of any alumn from GNAC football schools history pre/during GNAC days.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by tsull View Post

              Another great post, Mustang. You're so correct on presidents/admins only wanting to talk with people who have doctorates. They don't understand the bigger picture. If they want to increase enrollment and donations, they simply must change their ways.

              WOU's best president was a guy who previously was a president of Pasadena Junior College, at the time one of the largest JC's in the nation enrollment-wise. WOU was dying at the time, talks of closing it and so forth. Richard Meyers gets hired, first thing he does is walks to the very small downtown and shakes hands with business people. He then hires a guy in the state legislature as a right-hand man, a very political but sound move. In 7/8 years he had near-doubled the enrollment. Billboards sprung up, commercials went on TV; they just tried harder. Oh sure, some academics complained that standards were lowered -- newsflash, WOU isn't Harvard -- but things really moved forward.

              I agree with having skin in the game. I'll never forget that sh-t-eating grin by the Humboldt president after she cut football; a year or two later she was long gone from Arcata, damage done, no ramifications. WOU hired the current president from EWU, I thought the Northwest connection would've been solid. He did get a building built in Salem, some other things, not all bad; in the end, however, he got a no-vote from the faculty, alienated a lot of people and good freaking grief, enrollment dropped like a rock on his watch, while the state exploded in population. How?

              While the faculty is focused on their narrow field of study, perhaps the migration habits of the paddlefish, your high school student is looking for a good, affordable place to go to school; your athlete is looking for a good place to participate in sports and get a good education and have a fun experience. They don't care about the paddlefish.

              * Agree on the marketing, never understood why WOU doesn't just have some Marketing students do their athletic marketing for them. When they were No. 1 in the nation in men's hoops a couple years ago, one couldn't find a schedule poster or anything downtown half a block from campus. Just have the students do the marketing, more will get done and it will be done better.
              A lot of colleges seem to have a grandiose sense of their place in higher education. Our mission statement is some BS about educating "world leaders." My vision for us is that we focus 100% on serving our region. You go to school here - it's understood that you are being educated to meet the needs of the immediate area. If you can translate that into a career in New York City or abroad, wonderful - but our goal should be to serve ourselves. Many State U's started off as Normal schools - training teachers to meet the immediate needs of the area in which they functioned. We lost that along the way.

              It seems like a lot of small State U's have this burning desire to be compared to the Ivy League. It's an ego trip is all it is. They want a seat at "the table" instead of standing out and being unique. Maybe that's their way of marketing - by capitalizing on the public's idea that gothic columns and large lecture halls is what college is "supposed" to be? I don't know. I'd rather build something unique that stands on its' own merit - kinda like what South Dakota Mines did. Seems like most schools just spin in a circle in the parking lot instead of actually going somewhere. What was it Lisa Simpson said - "The something of something is usually the nothing of nothing."? There is no "Harvard of Oregon," there is only "Harvard."

              Anyway, bringing it back to football - Humboldt probably brought in a lot of non-affiliates onto campus every Saturday for games. That's a great way to plant roots in your community. You have to get the townspeople onto campus somehow. Some of those kids will grow up as "Humboldt State" fans, and maybe even go to the school. That's how you build tradition at this level. Pitt State and Northwest Missouri seem to have it mastered, and GVSU has done a great job as well. You have to plant deep roots in your community, not just sit on top of the soil. So many small colleges fail at this. Of course Humboldt now has to rely on their track and field team - best of luck.

              We had abysmal advertising here - admins were basically sitting around wondering why their one-or-two billboards weren't working. We'd have classroom conversations about how awful it was. The two schools in Sioux Falls advertised locally more than we did, and Arizona State even took out radio ads on our stations. Yet the best we could do was muster a billboard in a rival town. Admins just thought people would flock to us simply because we exist - yet I've had many conversations where people don't even know we exist, or have never heard of the town. In-state people, I mean - not folks from another time zone. It's gotten better, but wow was it terrible. There were some really smart kids in my major - they were very blunt about the issue. Nobody wanted to listen, I guess. We once had a laugh over the idea that we didn't have enough money for a proper ad campaign, but we had money to buy that ugly modern art installation outside of our entrance - that nobody even noticed because it was the same rust-color as the brick building behind it... *eye roll*



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              • #37
                Originally posted by tsull View Post

                He's a great player ... hello Minnesotans, wake up! Do they think Theilein played for the Golden Gophers or something?

                WOU has a starting receiver in the NFL in Tyrell Williams, hurt all this year, signed a huge deal with Oakland, er Las Vegas ... I'd argue he was the 2nd best receiver on his collegiate team behind Paul Revis, who at 5-9 wasn't going to play in the NFL. I was stunned at the receiving talent at WOU at that time.

                Humboldt and Azusa RB's also got some NFL looks and Watson of APU made a roster; Gardner played in the pre-season. There's some talent in the GNAC and of course, all across the D2 country.
                The local media got as much mileage out of that as they could. They managed to repeat "Minnesota State" over and over without actually promoting the program. They ran the angle that Minnesota State is a bunch of nobodies and the whole thing was a charity case. The important schools passed, so he ho-hummed his way to a non-competitive school in a non-competitive division. Some important person in Minneapolis just happened to give him a chance and voila - instant star.

                They made it sound like Adam was the only NFL player to ever play D2 ball. He's not the only (active) Mav in the NFL, nor is he the only D2 guy on his own team. If it's not the Gophers, Johnnies, or Tommies - Minnesotans just don't care, until they can gloat that "that guy" played here and was under the radar.

                I don't mean to be a gatekeeper for D2 football, but I put miles on the truck to watch these guys play - I support and follow these schools. It irks me when the local fans bury the programs for being D2 and "not real football," then gloat about how great it is that they can claim Adam Thielen or Gunner Olszewski, and how great they were in college. It's mildly annoying - and Minnesotans have a weird superiority complex when it comes to these things.

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                • #38
                  I think you have to think about west coast institutions from financial terms. Since most D2's out west are public they view football as an expense. They get most of their support from the state and without it they are in the red. So they have the view that everything is just an expense (salaries, equipment, travel), they don't see football attracting additional students, because they know they could fill those seats with different students. And given the flood of applicants to publics due to competition, the incentive isn't there. This is much different than the NAIA, that has a higher % smaller private schools that need to attract students, and football bringing in 100-130 partial scholarship students that moves the needle financially.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by SW_Mustang View Post

                    The local media got as much mileage out of that as they could. They managed to repeat "Minnesota State" over and over without actually promoting the program. They ran the angle that Minnesota State is a bunch of nobodies and the whole thing was a charity case. The important schools passed, so he ho-hummed his way to a non-competitive school in a non-competitive division. Some important person in Minneapolis just happened to give him a chance and voila - instant star.

                    They made it sound like Adam was the only NFL player to ever play D2 ball. He's not the only (active) Mav in the NFL, nor is he the only D2 guy on his own team. If it's not the Gophers, Johnnies, or Tommies - Minnesotans just don't care, until they can gloat that "that guy" played here and was under the radar.

                    I don't mean to be a gatekeeper for D2 football, but I put miles on the truck to watch these guys play - I support and follow these schools. It irks me when the local fans bury the programs for being D2 and "not real football," then gloat about how great it is that they can claim Adam Thielen or Gunner Olszewski, and how great they were in college. It's mildly annoying - and Minnesotans have a weird superiority complex when it comes to these things.
                    David Moore on the Seahawks is also a D2 player, but from the East Coast and East Central University. He may not be their top receiver duo of Locket and Metcalf, but he's definitely a solid #3 that Wilson wanted to get a catch in the last game so he could get a $100k bonus during garbage time.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Wildcat Khan View Post

                      David Moore on the Seahawks is also a D2 player, but from the East Coast and East Central University. He may not be their top receiver duo of Locket and Metcalf, but he's definitely a solid #3 that Wilson wanted to get a catch in the last game so he could get a $100k bonus during garbage time.
                      That's kinda neat.

                      Gunner O just set some record or another for the Patriots, punt return yards/season I think? He's been pretty solid for them. Malcolm Butler (sorry) is a D2 player. I don't really count guys like Tyreek Hill or Janoris Jenkins - FBS talents that "Last Chance U'd" their way into D2. Still though, D2 might not be the prospect mill that FBS is - but go to enough games and odds are you'll see somebody who's going to make the show.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by stealth View Post
                        I think you have to think about west coast institutions from financial terms. Since most D2's out west are public they view football as an expense. They get most of their support from the state and without it they are in the red. So they have the view that everything is just an expense (salaries, equipment, travel), they don't see football attracting additional students, because they know they could fill those seats with different students. And given the flood of applicants to publics due to competition, the incentive isn't there. This is much different than the NAIA, that has a higher % smaller private schools that need to attract students, and football bringing in 100-130 partial scholarship students that moves the needle financially.
                        That's a valid point, though I'd have to imagine schools outside of the desired urban areas probably are struggling to some degree - like tsull mentioned with WOU, and having something extra might be a benefit. Just a thought, though.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by SW_Mustang View Post

                          A lot of colleges seem to have a grandiose sense of their place in higher education. Our mission statement is some BS about educating "world leaders." My vision for us is that we focus 100% on serving our region. You go to school here - it's understood that you are being educated to meet the needs of the immediate area.
                          I said this to someone last week. These are schools that mostly serve the region. They train teachers. They train accountants. They train people who will open small businesses. Administrators who want to believe their schools are Ivy League are doing everyone, including themselves, a disservice.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Wildcat Khan View Post

                            David Moore on the Seahawks is also a D2 player, but from the East Coast and East Central University. He may not be their top receiver duo of Locket and Metcalf, but he's definitely a solid #3 that Wilson wanted to get a catch in the last game so he could get a $100k bonus during garbage time.
                            East Central University plays in the GAC. They are located in Ada, OK.

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                            • #44
                              Todd Graham, current Hawai'i head coach played briefly for the Arizona Cardinals is from now-D2 East Central. I played against him during his freshman year back in the NAIA days, we lost.

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                              • #45
                                Really good thread here, if any high level administrators are reading this they probably hate all of us right now but I don't care about that. Also, some nice trivia, I did not know Todd Graham played D2 ball in Oklahoma.

                                I think Mustang is right about these schools losing their way. I never met one person during my college years that wished we were Harvard or that we were creating world leaders or anything like that. Most people stayed in the region or went back to their home towns and worked and are strong community members. On another note, a lot of my friends who went to bigger schools in the Northwest also stayed in their own regions and weren't thinking about Harvard, or world leaders.

                                These administrators all went to grad school in basically administration and administrative speak, they have no freaking clue what students want.

                                Well, yes a lot of first generation college students attend small regional state schools, and a lot of them have jobs outside of school, that doesn't mean they don't want to watch football on a Saturday, or they don't want to live in residence halls, or participate in the student life. Some president who hasn't been an undergraduate in 35 years telling students what he thinks they want is beyond insane.
                                Last edited by tsull; 01-05-2021, 06:44 PM.

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