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  • #61
    Originally posted by tsull View Post
    There was a game last year where Akron had two people on one side of the stadium. I saw the picture. Akron reported 10,000 at the game or something like that, the Akron fans online said there was about 500 people at the game. As long as the NCAA doesn't do anything about it teams will just continue to do this.
    The fact there was any attendance at a game last year isn't great, because y'know, pandemic and all that. Now if it was two years ago, that's a different matter.

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    • #62
      I was curious about the stadiums of these schools, so here is some information I found - it doesn't mean much, but I figured I'd share. These are sorted in order of "gameday utilization" (didn't know what else to call it). It's the average crowd divided by the seating capacity. Attendance information is from NCAA, capacity info is from Wikipedia.

      Charlotte:

      -Stadium Capacity: 15,314
      -Average Crowd (2019): 12,319
      -Gameday Utilization: 81.4%
      -Largest Crowd: 19,151 (vs. App State, 2018)

      Florida International:

      -Stadium Capacity: 20,000 (some places have it listed as 23,500)
      -Average Crowd (2019): 13,874
      -Gameday Utilization: 68.9%
      -Largest Crowd: 22,682 (vs. Duke, 2011)

      UMass:

      -Stadium Capacity: 17,000 (listed as having the "ability to expand" to 21,430)
      -Average Crowd (2019): 9,498
      -Gameday Utilization: 55.9%
      -Largest Crowd: 20,000 (vs. Boston College, 1972)


      Middle Tennessee State:

      -Stadium Capacity: 30,788
      -Average Crowd (2019): 14,253
      -Gameday Utilization: 46.3%
      -Largest Crowd: 30,502 (vs. Georgia Tech, 2011)


      Central Michigan:

      -Stadium Capacity: 30,000
      -Average Crowd (2019): 13,564
      -Gameday Utilization: 45.2%
      -Largest Crowd: 35,127 (vs. Michigan State, 2012)


      Ball State:

      -Stadium Capacity: 22,500
      -Average Crowd (2019): 9,924
      -Gameday Utilization: 44.1%
      -Largest Crowd: 35,127 (vs. Western Michigan, 2008)


      Northern Illinois University:

      -Stadium Capacity: 23,595
      -Average Crowd (2019): 8,518
      -Gameday Utilization: 36.1%
      -Largest Crowd: 28,221 (vs. Western Michigan, 2003)


      Here are some random facts about each school, hopefully my math is all correct;

      -Charlotte opened their stadium in 2013, and it's the newest on this list. In order to meet the NCAA attendance requirement, they would have to basically sell out every game.

      -FIU is also the home to USL Miami FC. Based on the top USL attendance of 2019, Miami FC could potentially achieve a 63.46% gameday utilization - rivaling that of FIU.

      -UMass' largest game came against Boston College in 1972 when both schools were members of the NCAA College Division. In 1973, UMass was relegated to Division II after the split.

      -MTSU's average attendance declined 29.71% between 2008-2019, almost triple the FBS decline of 11.7%. They had an 8.15% decrease in attendance from 2018-2019. Also, while it falls well within the margin for error, MTSU is the only school on this list to have never had a stated game attendance reach or exceed their stated stadium capacity.

      -Central Michigan opened their stadium in 1972 with a capacity of 20,000. If they would have left it that way, they would have only utilized 67% of their seats in 2019.

      -Ball State might be the worst offender on this list, last having had their last 15k season in 2013, with 15,131, and once before that in 2011 with 15,064. They had a -48.53% difference between 2013 and their worst season in 2016 where they average 7,789 fans/game. This also represents a 34.48% utilization average for 2016. They did average 19,201 in 2008 though - however that was a one-and-done miracle season for the Sweaty Birds.

      -NIU might be the most confusing - they were consistently above 15,000 fans, and even had 20,877 in 2012. They would follow up again in 2013 with 20,669 In 2014, they posted 13,563, which is an immediate decline of 35.06%. They would post 11,019 in 2016, 10,404 in 2018, and 8,518 in 2019. This represents a 59.2% decline in attendance from their height in 2012, to their last season in 2019. Compared to an FBS decline of ~8%, NIU declined roughly 7.5x more during the same period.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by IronOre View Post

        The fact there was any attendance at a game last year isn't great, because y'know, pandemic and all that. Now if it was two years ago, that's a different matter.
        I think he meant 2019. Everyone gets a pass for 2020, IMO. That was out of the control of the program.

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        • #64
          A lot of the attendance issues with MAC schools can be blamed on playing an overwhelming majority of their games on Tuesday and Wednesday. With that said, it is very sad that big D1 colleges with 10,000-30,000 students get football attendance totals that would not fill my high school stadium (15,000) in Little Rock.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by SW_Mustang View Post

            I think he meant 2019. Everyone gets a pass for 2020, IMO. That was out of the control of the program.
            I would think that 2020 and spring 2021 numbers will get a pass. I don't think anyone will be held accountable for 0 attendance for this school year in any sport even if local regulations allowed fans.

            That said, seeing 200 or so fans in basketball games made them feel like the games on Root Sports for some MWC schools, but not normal for a game like last night's Texas/Kansas game between two Top 25 teams. It felt more like I was watching a game in Wyoming for example.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Tech Boys View Post
              A lot of the attendance issues with MAC schools can be blamed on playing an overwhelming majority of their games on Tuesday and Wednesday. With that said, it is very sad that big D1 colleges with 10,000-30,000 students get football attendance totals that would not fill my high school stadium (15,000) in Little Rock.
              I could see that, though I'd think they'd just get drowned out by their neighboring Big 10 schools on Saturdays. If I'm living in Ypsilanti and have no ties to Eastern Michigan or the University of Michigan, but I want to go to a college football game - I'm driving the extra 20 miles to Ann Arbor.

              That TV deal with ESPN might be what's keeping these schools in the FBS. Well, that and doctoring their attendance numbers.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by IronOre View Post

                The fact there was any attendance at a game last year isn't great, because y'know, pandemic and all that. Now if it was two years ago, that's a different matter.
                It was definitely pre-pandemic, must have been two years ago. I remember an Akron fan saying there were two people total on one side, then showed a picture of it. He said 500 at the game; school claimed 10K. He said 500 was generous, too.

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                • #68

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                  • #69
                    I like how the Timbers cut a slice out of a log every time someone scores, then they present it to the scoring player after the game.

                    That's some good marketing.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by SW_Mustang View Post

                      I like how the Timbers cut a slice out of a log every time someone scores, then they present it to the scoring player after the game.

                      That's some good marketing.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        I remember the Old Civic stadium. It was a bit different as you could stand on the street and look into the stadium and see the field and games showed the cars driving on the street above it. It is where I got to see SFU play Portland State in soccer as my youth soccer coach took us to see it with a full 3 hour+ drive each way to the game. On a side note, a former Mariner road with my family for that trip that was my team's goalie.

                        Comment


                        • #72

                          It's a fine line in American sports, and western culture - between the two. Many things we consider to be traditions like engagement rings, holidays, the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally and the Thanksgiving Parade are either marketing campaigns or the result thereof. Some would even consider Super Bowl commercials to be a form of "tradition" - yet it's the most obvious marketing ploy we've created.

                          I see what you are saying - all I intend to convey is that they aren't all that different. FC United's "Wonderwall" tradition began organically and is now a huge tool in the marketing toolbox. I don't find anything wrong with that - though starting a tradition to increase awareness, is indeed marketing.

                          I'm a marketing major, though I consider myself to be self taught (studied the business of skateboarding more in college than I did my textbooks) - so that might just be how I see the world. It's a fascinating conversation, though.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by SW_Mustang View Post


                            It's a fine line in American sports, and western culture - between the two. Many things we consider to be traditions like engagement rings, holidays, the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally and the Thanksgiving Parade are either marketing campaigns or the result thereof. Some would even consider Super Bowl commercials to be a form of "tradition" - yet it's the most obvious marketing ploy we've created.

                            I see what you are saying - all I intend to convey is that they aren't all that different. FC United's "Wonderwall" tradition began organically and is now a huge tool in the marketing toolbox. I don't find anything wrong with that - though starting a tradition to increase awareness, is indeed marketing.

                            I'm a marketing major, though I consider myself to be self taught (studied the business of skateboarding more in college than I did my textbooks) - so that might just be how I see the world. It's a fascinating conversation, though.
                            How would you consider the "Curtain of Distraction" at ASU basketball games? Is that tradition or marketing as it is student driven, but also includes stars? If you aren't familiar with it here is an article on it: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...in-distraction

                            I'm not sure if with it being less than 10 years old which it falls into, but it looks like it did drive up student attendance at home basketball games.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Wildcat Khan View Post

                              How would you consider the "Curtain of Distraction" at ASU basketball games? Is that tradition or marketing as it is student driven, but also includes stars? If you aren't familiar with it here is an article on it: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...in-distraction

                              I'm not sure if with it being less than 10 years old which it falls into, but it looks like it did drive up student attendance at home basketball games.
                              Interesting. Good question.

                              IMO, it's really subjective - but I see it as a tradition. The first question I ask myself is "what is the intent behind it?" They aren't really selling anything or promoting anything, their actions aren't really being used by the school to sell or promote anything, and it seems to have happened organically. I suppose it could be considered marketing in the sense that they've helped created an atmosphere that's sold tickets, benefitting the school that way - but that to me seems like a byproduct and not the goal.

                              The two don't need to be mutually exclusive either. In my case of FC United, it is tradition to sing "Wonderwall" after a game - but by doing so, the club uses it to promote themselves through advertising. It's gotten to the point where it's more marketing than tradition, in my opinion. Others may disagree with me. St. Pauli supporters would probably riot if their club did the same thing. Traditions can be marketed, marketing can become tradition - and the two can exist simultaneously.

                              Another example of my point - the Minnesota Vikings "Skol" chant is a marketing campaign, the same chant used by the Icelandic national soccer team is presumably not a marketing campaign. The difference comes down to intent.

                              And I should clarify - I don't think there is anything morally wrong marketing this way. I'd be a hypocrite to believe so. I just like to differentiate if my participation is apart of a sales pitch, or if it's apart of an actual tradition.

                              I hope some of that made sense. It's really based on how one defines the two and where one draws the lines, which will always be blurred - especially in Western culture.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                For marketing D2 schools and lower, I wouldn't try and beat the D1's, just try and get the crowds you can get. That area is small: your students and staff, and the town your college resides in. All the bells and whistles aren't going to work if your team isn't winning and if the tickets cost too much to watch D2 football.

                                Most athletic directors were trained on the Power 5/D1 model in grad school. Most sport management programs reside in these universities. They take those ideas to D2 and lower and it doesn't work. Typically you get the families of players attending, that's good. You get some students. In D2 on down the problem is getting the average fan, who might be tuning into their local Power 5 team on TV rather than going outside to see the college they attend play.

                                So make it family friendly: cheap tickets, free parking -- I mean seriously, charging parking on a Saturday in a small college town? Cheap concessions, cheap gear, polite people greeting you at the gate, access to players and coaches after the game (this is a cool thing I see at the small college level). Promote the games through schedule posters downtown, social media, and posters in the residence halls and academic buildings. Don't try to be D1, don't even think about it.

                                Look at it like live music at a local pub. They're not the Rolling Stones and you're not going to pay $100's of dollars to hear them. But the band might be good, you hopefully will eat good food, and have a good time.

                                It's the little things ... what I don't get is not trying. When WOU was No. 1 in the nation in hoops a few years ago not a schedule poster to be found downtown and nothing saying they were No. 1. (Got news for WOU, that ranking probably not happening again for awhile.) I work near NNU, pre-pandemic they got 1,000 a game in men's hoops without trying. Yep, little to no community outreach. Try the little things, players shooting hoops at local schools, free tickets to kids, etc.

                                At the small college level the small things matter.

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