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  • #16
    Originally posted by tsull View Post
    Great information, Mustang, my guess is they want to crank up enrollment with football. That said, what they should do if they really want students is offer public school prices. The school is small and in downtown Oakland with not many buildings, there's not a lot of upkeep and really not much of a campus. To be honest, I'd go community college prices ... cost is the No. 1 thing most students look at nation-wide. I'd undercut everyone and see what lands.

    Regarding sports/football, obviously they'll have to play at a local high school. That's OK. Northwest Nazarene should add football, IMO, and play at the nice Nampa High stadium a half mile or less away.

    Lewis-Clark State College in Lewiston, Idaho, plays NAIA sports, but also plays club football and actually beat D3 Pacific University a couple of years ago (yes, the Northwest Conference is not very good). They have a strong club program that goes around and plays other college club programs. That's the only way Lincoln could get this up and running, IMO. I wouldn't start intercollegiate football until they get enrollment to 500.

    It could be a scam university, I'm not sure. They certainly don't qualify for NCAA or probably even NAIA right now. I applaud them for trying something ... that's better than not trying, or worse, quitting when you already have the sport.
    That's most likely why they are doing it on the surface - but the more I read, the more I'm convinced these student athletes are signing up for a con. I have way more questions than answers.

    Like for example - this article from "FootballScoop.com" -

    FBS coaching veteran lands defensive coordinator role at Division II startup (footballscoop.com)

    Lincoln University, a startup Division II program set to begin in the fall of 2021, has made a key hire at defensive coordinator by bringing in a FBS coaching veteran.
    1. First of all - NAIA or NCAA? I guess that doesn't really matter right now though.
    2. John Bowers was announced on 10/23, but less than two months later he had moved onto an NAIA school in FL. Why?
    3. Why was the DC let go from two FBS programs with no explanation in a short period of time? Why come here and not somewhere more established if needing stability?
    4. Why hire an HC with zero college experience? Why can't I find reliable information on HC's HS coaching career, besides a few random articles (one of which says he quit one school in a hissy fit)?
    5. Why is there literally zero information on the other sports programs? Even if they are club, who is going to run them? The football coaches? Why aren't the same resources on social media being directed towards them like they are football?

    Then I found this tweet from the associate AD/"football coach". He claims that despite launching the program in October of 2020, they already have games lined up against D2 opponents for fall of 2021. So they are playing GNAC opponents? RMAC? Has anyone heard of this happening? NAIA?




    The other thing I question - they operate out of a small 3-4 story bank building. Based on their plan, they need to at least double their student body of 70 in order to fill these teams - club or varsity. Can their building hold 140 students for classes?

    This just doesn't sit right with me. No formal press release, no website, no detailed plan - I get things are rocky when a program starts, but they seem to be wanting to go from point A to gameday in way too little time.

    Sorry - I just find this situation so fascinating. Usually when a school wants to set up a sports program, they put out a press release - they want attention and recognition. They have a plan laid out to build off of. These guys seem to be straying away from any attention besides tweeting to almost nobody - and they don't seem to have much of a plan. I truly hope this works for the athletes involved and they didn't shave off eligibility from real schools just to play here, or worse...

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    • #17
      One last thing before I get off my soapbox - their football account tweeted this absolutely hilarious MBA rankings list from something called "bizjournals". I thought it had to be photoshopped, but no... it's real. It's from 2018. This doesn't have much to do with anything, but it was too hilarious not to share.

      I don't even know where to begin. Lincoln University is ranked at the top behind Haas and Stanford and well above Wharton-San Francisco. UC-Davis is tossed in there randomly. DeVry is ranked above San Francisco State and San Jose State (and right next to Wharton-SF).

      It's not the type of thing I'd personally want to market - but I'm also not in charge. To each their own.




      All of that being said - I really truly wish them the best. CA is desperate for some small-school football. I'd be happy for them to prove me wrong.

      Comment


      • #18
        That's some great research, never heard of Wharton-San Francisco, but if that's part of the esteemed Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania (arguably the top business program in America), I doubt they're that low in that ranking. It's hard for me to believe a lot of the hyperbole.

        Also, they have D2 opponents lined up? Is that for 2021, 2022, 2023 and beyond? I'll bet if I checked RMAC, GNAC, etc., schedules, they're not on them. Posting a Slippery Rock tweet is odd; they could've easily posted WOU, which signed 28 kids.

        This is an odd thing. Despite all this, because of the hemorrhaging the GNAC has taken over the years, WWU, Humboldt, Azusa dropping, Mines changing leagues, etc., I'm ready to accept Lincoln ... if they can have football, I would think Chico, Hayward, Humboldt, Sonoma, Azusa, and WWU could pull it off.

        More power to Lincoln!

        Comment


        • #19
          Alright - one more. Here's one unhappy customer...

          (9) Lincoln University, Oakland California Real Story and Unaccredited Degrees | LinkedIn

          I can't confirm/deny most of the claims in this post - but what I can do is talk about the ACICS as this jogged my memory. What he has to say is still very interesting and does explain a lot of what might be going on, if true.

          ACICS was the target of the Obama administration crackdown on diploma mills. They certified schools such as FastTrain, Corinthian, ITT-Tech, and most famously Reagan National University. Their lack of oversight essentially allowed these schools to run a legalized scam. ACICS sued, and regained recognition in 2018 during the Trump administration. However it looks like they may again lose that recognition.

          The poster says that LU claimed ACICS accreditation between 2016-2018, when they technically had none - which is very, very shady and unethical. Non-accredited degrees are virtually worthless. DoE recommended in January to pull recognition from the ACICS again and we should know their fate soon. They accredit 73 campuses, none of which I've heard of - and the select ones I Google'd didn't even provide me with a Wikipedia page, let alone any standard information I seek from every school (type, acceptance rate, etc., etc.).

          Most of what the author says (if true) coupled with what I read about LU's international student situation does help me understand why they have low enrollment, little degree offerings, a lack of a social platform, and the bad infrastructure they have.

          Lincoln at one time was probably a reputable institution, but is no longer. I wish the athletes the best on their journey. This project has been fun, at the very least.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by tsull View Post
            That's some great research, never heard of Wharton-San Francisco, but if that's part of the esteemed Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania (arguably the top business program in America), I doubt they're that low in that ranking. It's hard for me to believe a lot of the hyperbole.

            Also, they have D2 opponents lined up? Is that for 2021, 2022, 2023 and beyond? I'll bet if I checked RMAC, GNAC, etc., schedules, they're not on them. Posting a Slippery Rock tweet is odd; they could've easily posted WOU, which signed 28 kids.

            This is an odd thing. Despite all this, because of the hemorrhaging the GNAC has taken over the years, WWU, Humboldt, Azusa dropping, Mines changing leagues, etc., I'm ready to accept Lincoln ... if they can have football, I would think Chico, Hayward, Humboldt, Sonoma, Azusa, and WWU could pull it off.

            More power to Lincoln!
            Yes - that is the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School. I wasn't aware of it previously, but they run an EMBA program in San Francisco. It's not uncommon for big schools to run programs elsewhere, and San Francisco is a great place to host an Ivy League EMBA program. It is temporarily shut down to to COVID.

            Home - San Francisco (upenn.edu)

            The Slippery Rock tweet came from another random guy not affiliated with LU. The person replying to it is LU's Associate Athletic Director/"Football Coach" (he's not the HC and doesn't give a position title). It's funny, he has zero formal coaching experience at the high school or college level that I could dig up. Anyway, I put together two more coaches for the program not listed on the website.

            They are having success recruiting too. They are heavily targeting JUCO players which - I guess makes sense that you'd want a few anchors with game experience, but that feels shady. Going after guys who went through JUCO and aren't getting offers from anyone else? Yeesh. It's also not a great way to build a program foundation, IMO, if your players are going to turn over that quickly.

            My official prediction is that they will not take one snap in 2021 against a college team, especially a GNAC one. I'll be impressed if they can scrape up some thrift store jerseys and find an empty rock pit to play in, and I'll eat my words if they can convince the University of Phoenix club soccer team to come play them. The program should be flat by the 2022 season, if not 2023. Possibly with some legal implications? That remains to be seen.

            God speed Oaklanders, this should be fun to watch unfold.

            Comment


            • #22
              Nice find, the key is getting them into the GNAC and not letting the RMAC add it's 50th school ... kidding, sort of. Get them on board and push Chico to bring it back, there's a minor movement there, as is one at MSU-Billings. College of Idaho might look at D2, not sure, they already have 24 full scholarships, and that's at a private school.

              Holding out hope for a bigger GNAC league some day. It would be great to get UBC on board, but doubt that's going to happen.

              Despite our questions about Lincoln and if it's a viable university, they are moving forward and actually have games scheduled. Props.

              Comment


              • #23
                Originally posted by tsull View Post

                Nice find, the key is getting them into the GNAC and not letting the RMAC add it's 50th school ... kidding, sort of. Get them on board and push Chico to bring it back, there's a minor movement there, as is one at MSU-Billings. College of Idaho might look at D2, not sure, they already have 24 full scholarships, and that's at a private school.

                Holding out hope for a bigger GNAC league some day. It would be great to get UBC on board, but doubt that's going to happen.

                Despite our questions about Lincoln and if it's a viable university, they are moving forward and actually have games scheduled. Props.
                They have 5 D2 schools on their schedule. Could be something they look to for the future.

                Comment


                • #24
                  Originally posted by ESU Warrior View Post

                  They have 5 D2 schools on their schedule. Could be something they look to for the future.
                  I give them credit, it's tough to start football and they're doing it. It's easier to quit football. Azusa Pacific had 30 football scholarships and quit, gave up. Humboldt State had over 20 scholarships and 7K fans per game and an east coast president cancelled the program, flipping off the university, the towns of Arcata and Eureka, the players, fans, and coaches, and support staff.

                  Lincoln is at least trying. It's key the GNAC gets more members in the conference, get some people who are committed to football not committed to quitting. To quote a friend of mine who used to work in college athletics, D3 and high D1: "It's really tough to build up a program, but it sure doesn't take long to tear it down." Let's hope Lincoln builds up their program. I give them serious props on this.

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                  • #25
                    Wow that is great to see D2 football in California however how will they make any money if all the games are on the road??? I counted 5 games against D2 opponents and all are road games unless those games are all with guaranteed money included to cover travel expenses as well as having enough leftover to fund the program going forward.

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                    • #26
                      Originally posted by ESU Warrior View Post

                      They have 5 D2 schools on their schedule. Could be something they look to for the future.
                      SFA is FCS.

                      I'm still not buying the legitimacy of this program and/or school. Stranger things have happened though.

                      Comment


                      • #27
                        Originally posted by shipfbfan1 View Post
                        Wow that is great to see D2 football in California however how will they make any money if all the games are on the road??? I counted 5 games against D2 opponents and all are road games unless those games are all with guaranteed money included to cover travel expenses as well as having enough leftover to fund the program going forward.
                        If I had to guess - I would say it's going to be subsidized through tuition dollars. $18,000/year x 100 players is a lot of dough to play with.

                        Might also explain why this institution wants to start athletics in the first place.
                        Last edited by SW_Mustang; 05-19-2021, 02:52 PM.

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                        • #28
                          Make money on D2 football? There's not one FCS program that makes money on football. In about 80% of FBS programs lose money on their athletic department, including the University of Michigan for a couple years. Division II football isn't about making money.

                          I know there's a lot of questions about this school but we've had all kinds of universities drop football up and down the West Coast, I'm glad somebody has the guts to finally start playing it. If people want to enroll and take classes in the school and play football what's the problem?

                          We've had a group of pseudo intellectual college presidents drop football at Azusa Pacific, Western Washington, and Humboldt State. Two of those three presidents are no longer even in the business of being a college president, and never should have been college presidents in the first place.

                          Lincoln wants to give kids in the state of California an opportunity to play college football, a state that hardly has any small college football. I think it's a good thing, it's better than dropping the sport.

                          Comment


                          • #29
                            Originally posted by tsull View Post
                            Make money on D2 football? There's not one FCS program that makes money on football. In about 80% of FBS programs lose money on their athletic department, including the University of Michigan for a couple years. Division II football isn't about making money.

                            I know there's a lot of questions about this school but we've had all kinds of universities drop football up and down the West Coast, I'm glad somebody has the guts to finally start playing it. If people want to enroll and take classes in the school and play football what's the problem?

                            We've had a group of pseudo intellectual college presidents drop football at Azusa Pacific, Western Washington, and Humboldt State. Two of those three presidents are no longer even in the business of being a college president, and never should have been college presidents in the first place.

                            Lincoln wants to give kids in the state of California an opportunity to play college football, a state that hardly has any small college football. I think it's a good thing, it's better than dropping the sport.
                            Believe me - I want to see more small-school football in the American southwest just as much as the rest of us. I'd love to live in California one day, and I want to still be connected to the world of D2. That's why I have such an interest in GNAC activities. This just isn't the way.

                            My concern is for the athletes. These kids are signing up to take on a mountain of debt just to play football for two years. They'll be risking their long term health, and receiving nothing in return. The natural fallback after not receiving a pro contract (because let's be honest here), is the education - which is basically worthless. I can't, in good conscious, enjoy that level of football. It really only benefits those in charge of the university, who have a documented history of taking advantage of their students and the system for personal gain.

                            I'm not an intellectual snob, I'm a champion of higher education reform, and I believe full-heartedly in college sports. I just don't like this one bit.

                            Again, maybe I'm wrong - maybe they can leverage the football program to turn the institution around and be a productive member of the higher education landscape instead of leeching off of it like they've been known to do. I just don't want to see the players risking a lot and receiving nothing in return. I would not have the same opinion if Sonoma State or Dominguez Hills decided to play football.

                            Anyway - D3's financial model is setup around student tuition. If you take revenues that football activities bring in, and subtract the costs - D3 loses a ton of money. They make that up through the tuition revenue of the players. It's been so lucrative that D3 went through a period of adding programs over the last decade unlike any other level of football. It's very attractive financially. It's a unique situation that really only seems to apply to them - and it looks like LU is trying to achieve the same model.

                            D3 is also afforded the luxury of significantly reduced travel costs (generally speaking), and in some places like Minnesota - the D3 schools get a ton of alumni support financially. Kind of an interesting system they have. I don't find any fault with it so long as they are being honest and still providing a quality education.

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                            • #30
                              Originally posted by SW_Mustang View Post

                              Believe me - I want to see more small-school football in the American southwest just as much as the rest of us. I'd love to live in California one day, and I want to still be connected to the world of D2. That's why I have such an interest in GNAC activities. This just isn't the way.

                              My concern is for the athletes. These kids are signing up to take on a mountain of debt just to play football for two years. They'll be risking their long term health, and receiving nothing in return. The natural fallback after not receiving a pro contract (because let's be honest here), is the education - which is basically worthless. I can't, in good conscious, enjoy that level of football. It really only benefits those in charge of the university, who have a documented history of taking advantage of their students and the system for personal gain.

                              I'm not an intellectual snob, I'm a champion of higher education reform, and I believe full-heartedly in college sports. I just don't like this one bit.

                              Again, maybe I'm wrong - maybe they can leverage the football program to turn the institution around and be a productive member of the higher education landscape instead of leeching off of it like they've been known to do. I just don't want to see the players risking a lot and receiving nothing in return. I would not have the same opinion if Sonoma State or Dominguez Hills decided to play football.

                              Anyway - D3's financial model is setup around student tuition. If you take revenues that football activities bring in, and subtract the costs - D3 loses a ton of money. They make that up through the tuition revenue of the players. It's been so lucrative that D3 went through a period of adding programs over the last decade unlike any other level of football. It's very attractive financially. It's a unique situation that really only seems to apply to them - and it looks like LU is trying to achieve the same model.

                              D3 is also afforded the luxury of significantly reduced travel costs (generally speaking), and in some places like Minnesota - the D3 schools get a ton of alumni support financially. Kind of an interesting system they have. I don't find any fault with it so long as they are being honest and still providing a quality education.
                              Good points, but this is the choice of the student-athletes. There is literally thousands of articles on the internet to help them make their college choice and whether they want to do that or not. I would hope Lincoln could provide financial assistance in some way.

                              I'm guessing the players are excited about a few things: One is a schedule that is forming; two, that they get to play college football probably near their home town where their family and friends can watch them play. Three, of course, going to college.

                              To me, if it's good enough for them, I'm good. D3 is no bastion of freedom, I've known D3 guys to load up mountains of debt and sold a bag of goods on their school and program.

                              I just don't get hammering Lincoln U., they're trying to make things work. In regards to college football, Cali is the biggest underachiever on the planet. Some of the best high school talent in the nation and they barely have any opportunities for players who are not FBS talent.

                              Whether Lincoln sinks or swims is up to them. I'm guessing if you interviewed the guys on the team, 100% of them are excited about the season. Again, it's better than being a quitter like APU, or not wanting to quit and being forced to like Humboldt. I just don't get piling on when they're actually trying to provide opportunities for student-athletes.

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