California university starting football and athletics

[SW_Mustang]

Good points, but this is the choice of the student-athletes. There is literally thousands of articles on the internet to help them make their college choice and whether they want to do that or not. I would hope Lincoln could provide financial assistance in some way.

I'm guessing the players are excited about a few things: One is a schedule that is forming; two, that they get to play college football probably near their home town where their family and friends can watch them play. Three, of course, going to college.

To me, if it's good enough for them, I'm good. D3 is no bastion of freedom, I've known D3 guys to load up mountains of debt and sold a bag of goods on their school and program.

I just don't get hammering Lincoln U., they're trying to make things work. In regards to college football, Cali is the biggest underachiever on the planet. Some of the best high school talent in the nation and they barely have any opportunities for players who are not FBS talent.

Whether Lincoln sinks or swims is up to them. I'm guessing if you interviewed the guys on the team, 100% of them are excited about the season. Again, it's better than being a quitter like APU, or not wanting to quit and being forced to like Humboldt. I just don't get piling on when they're actually trying to provide opportunities for student-athletes.

People are more than welcome to participate in any scam they so choose - but I'm not going to support it or derive enjoyment from watching it. Especially when my tax dollars are going to have to fix it, like they did back in March when the feds had to clean up the mess from the last time LU's accrediting body got booted from the table:

Student loan forgiveness: Biden will cancel $1 billion in student debt for defrauded borrowers - CNNPolitics

And you are correct - the information is out there, I'm just consolidating it, putting it in one place, and sharing my opinion of it. This stuff wasn't exactly on the first page of a google search. I just felt that the thread participants should get both sides of the story before forming an opinion. I have a very hard stance on schools that I feel are trying to game their students/communities.

Lots of schools get a hammering from me - this thread happens to be about LU. If it were about Grand Canyon University or Waldorf, then they'd be the ones getting the hammer. There are even some fully legitimate schools like Purdue that I take issue with too.

My comments about D3 were unrelated to my opinion of LU. D3 pays for their athletics through tuition dollars - and I believe often makes more in tuition than what it costs to run the program. So long as the education is a priority for these schools (which it usually is), I support this method of funding athletics (generally speaking).

My guess is that's what LU is trying to do - subsidize the school through the addition of football, and the tuition dollars it brings in. I don't take issue with that aspect of it at all, actually - I just hope they use the opportunity to refocus their educational offerings into something a bit more... less shady.

Just to explain to you where I stand, anyway. We are in full agreement, something needs to be done about college football on the west coast. I think we just disagree on how it should be done.

[tsull]

People are more than welcome to participate in any scam they so choose - but I'm not going to support it or derive enjoyment from watching it. Especially when my tax dollars are going to have to fix it, like they did back in March when the feds had to clean up the mess from the last time LU's accrediting body got booted from the table:

Student loan forgiveness: Biden will cancel $1 billion in student debt for defrauded borrowers - CNNPolitics

And you are correct - the information is out there, I'm just consolidating it, putting it in one place, and sharing my opinion of it. This stuff wasn't exactly on the first page of a google search. I just felt that the thread participants should get both sides of the story before forming an opinion. I have a very hard stance on schools that I feel are trying to game their students/communities.

Lots of schools get a hammering from me - this thread happens to be about LU. If it were about Grand Canyon University or Waldorf, then they'd be the ones getting the hammer. There are even some fully legitimate schools like Purdue that I take issue with too.

My comments about D3 were unrelated to my opinion of LU. D3 pays for their athletics through tuition dollars - and I believe often makes more in tuition than what it costs to run the program. So long as the education is a priority for these schools (which it usually is), I support this method of funding athletics (generally speaking).

My guess is that's what LU is trying to do - subsidize the school through the addition of football, and the tuition dollars it brings in. I don't take issue with that aspect of it at all, actually - I just hope they use the opportunity to refocus their educational offerings into something a bit more... less shady.

Just to explain to you where I stand, anyway. We are in full agreement, something needs to be done about college football on the west coast. I think we just disagree on how it should be done.

Fair enough, and I'm against a lot of those scam schools -- Full Sail or whatever it was called, Argosy, DeVry, etc. -- all scammed students for millions of dollars without much payback.

My agenda is obviously the survival of D2 football on the West Coast and it's amazing how difficult something simple seems. Getting 100 more students is certainly a plus and is the D3 model brought to D2. Azusa lost 100 football players that most likely they won't replace. If things are above board, I'm for any school trying to grow and better themselves. If Lincoln and their college football program is a scam, they should be called out on it.

A better option for Oakland -- a huge city -- would be to actually have a state university in town. The state (IMO) foolishly built another UC school and placed it in Merced, when the state was gaining more CSU-type students than UC ones. In the East Bay, there is CSU-East Bay, in Hayward, not Oakland. Berkeley borders Oakland, but UCB is near impossible to get into.

We'll see if Lincoln finds their way, I was surprised at going D2 when NAIA or D3 might have been more feasible, then again Cali has few NAIA or D3 options.

I agree with calling out fraud colleges; I hope this is a move forward for Lincoln. One problem is my former profession -- journalism -- is so watered down these days there are few investigative reporters to look into these things.

[SW_Mustang]

Fair enough, and I'm against a lot of those scam schools -- Full Sail or whatever it was called, Argosy, DeVry, etc. -- all scammed students for millions of dollars without much payback.

My agenda is obviously the survival of D2 football on the West Coast and it's amazing how difficult something simple seems. Getting 100 more students is certainly a plus and is the D3 model brought to D2. Azusa lost 100 football players that most likely they won't replace. If things are above board, I'm for any school trying to grow and better themselves. If Lincoln and their college football program is a scam, they should be called out on it.

A better option for Oakland -- a huge city -- would be to actually have a state university in town. The state (IMO) foolishly built another UC school and placed it in Merced, when the state was gaining more CSU-type students than UC ones. In the East Bay, there is CSU-East Bay, in Hayward, not Oakland. Berkeley borders Oakland, but UCB is near impossible to get into.

We'll see if Lincoln finds their way, I was surprised at going D2 when NAIA or D3 might have been more feasible, then again Cali has few NAIA or D3 options.

I agree with calling out fraud colleges; I hope this is a move forward for Lincoln. One problem is my former profession -- journalism -- is so watered down these days there are few investigative reporters to look into these things.

We totally agree there - small college football in California is worth saving. There is way too much JUCO and HS talent to just not try.

Odds are, Lincoln started out as a legitimate university but lost itself along the way. It happens - I just watched Morris Brown claw back to accreditation after being bamboozled by a rouge administration. Curiously, LU technically a non-profit organization, which is a bit concerning. Nevertheless, if they can leverage the athletics program into a revenue stream for the school, and use that to find their way back to legitimacy - that would be totally cool, and my opinion of the situation would change at that point. I'm actually kinda pulling for GCU to find their way back to the legitimacy they had before going for-profit.

There is actually a D2 school in Oakland, Holy Names University - but I bet it's highly unlikely that they'd join the football landscape. Other than that, yeah it's pretty barren. Very odd. Seems like they would have been a great option for a CSU.

[tsull]

We totally agree there - small college football in California is worth saving. There is way too much JUCO and HS talent to just not try.

Odds are, Lincoln started out as a legitimate university but lost itself along the way. It happens - I just watched Morris Brown claw back to accreditation after being bamboozled by a rouge administration. Curiously, LU technically a non-profit organization, which is a bit concerning. Nevertheless, if they can leverage the athletics program into a revenue stream for the school, and use that to find their way back to legitimacy - that would be totally cool, and my opinion of the situation would change at that point. I'm actually kinda pulling for GCU to find their way back to the legitimacy they had before going for-profit.

There is actually a D2 school in Oakland, Holy Names University - but I bet it's highly unlikely that they'd join the football landscape. Other than that, yeah it's pretty barren. Very odd. Seems like they would have been a great option for a CSU.

Either Holy Names or Notre Dame de Namur or something like that, cut sports. Can't remember which one, I think Notre Dame. Oakland has 500K or so in the city, not including the metro area. They have some tough high schools, guessing some struggle academically. I think a CSU school would be perfect for Oakland, it's not some tiny burg. That said, I'm not sure Lincoln will get this off the ground. It would be great if they could. It's amazing that the strongest football in the state outside of FBS is at the JUCO ranks. One school on the northern coast, College of the Redwoods, cut football during Covid and is bringing it back. Humboldt, Sonoma, Chico, Hayward (East Bay), Azusa Pacific, just quit when a little ol' JC can cut it and bring it back. Well, I'll give Humboldt a break, they were the victim of a very bad president. That will kill a school every time, not just the football program.

If Lincoln doesn't pull it off, I'll eat my words. At least they're trying. The apathy on the west coast for actually trying to boost a school, enrollment, academics, athletics, is weak. Seriously, outside of the Pac-12 schools on the west coast, which universities are really crushing it? Maybe UC Davis?

Read the article I linked on the RMAC board about Colorado Mesa and their highly innovative Covid tracing/identification program. It was in the NY Times. That's doing well.

[Tech Boys]

It was Notre Dame de Namur who dropped sports. I'm sure you are saying you'd like a CSU school actually in the Oakland city limits but East Bay is on the south end of the Oakland metro.

[ESU Warrior]

According to this article they plan on being D-2. Not sure if this was posted or if anyone has seen this.

https://footballscoop.com/news/fbs-c...ordinator-job/

[Inkblot]

According to this article they plan on being D-2. Not sure if this was posted or if anyone has seen this.

https://footballscoop.com/news/fbs-c...ordinator-job/

I'm not sure. That reads more like the author didn't know what he was talking about than like they signaled a clear intent to pursue D2.

[SW_Mustang]

Either Holy Names or Notre Dame de Namur or something like that, cut sports. Can't remember which one, I think Notre Dame. Oakland has 500K or so in the city, not including the metro area. They have some tough high schools, guessing some struggle academically. I think a CSU school would be perfect for Oakland, it's not some tiny burg. That said, I'm not sure Lincoln will get this off the ground. It would be great if they could. It's amazing that the strongest football in the state outside of FBS is at the JUCO ranks. One school on the northern coast, College of the Redwoods, cut football during Covid and is bringing it back. Humboldt, Sonoma, Chico, Hayward (East Bay), Azusa Pacific, just quit when a little ol' JC can cut it and bring it back. Well, I'll give Humboldt a break, they were the victim of a very bad president. That will kill a school every time, not just the football program.

If Lincoln doesn't pull it off, I'll eat my words. At least they're trying. The apathy on the west coast for actually trying to boost a school, enrollment, academics, athletics, is weak. Seriously, outside of the Pac-12 schools on the west coast, which universities are really crushing it? Maybe UC Davis?

Read the article I linked on the RMAC board about Colorado Mesa and their highly innovative Covid tracing/identification program. It was in the NY Times. That's doing well.

I saw your post over there, though I still have to read the article. It's kinda neat. State schools need to step up like that and take those small leadership and research roles. Good for them.

Notre Dame de Namur actually cut almost all of it's undergrad education, and in-person graduate education. They are moving forward solely as an online graduate institution, with the possibility of offering some undergraduate completion courses. It was the only viable path they had for survival. Oakland's Mills College also closed, though they were a female-only institution.

One thing I'll give Lincoln credit on is they seem to be hiring the right people. From what I can gather, their coaching staff has some FBS and even some NFL experience. I'm guessing that's how they are getting games, through their connections. The game against SFA actually has me intrigued, I plan to follow that one when the day comes. It would be nice if they had an actual athletics website, so I don't have to find all these tidbits through Twitter.

I found an article about the Redwoods situation. It's an interesting one. They suspended the program for the year, but had no plans on permanently terminating it. This was done to save a ton of money in a short period of time for accreditation purposes. IMO, in hindsight it was the right move for the institution. The CCCAA ended up not playing, so nobody really missed out. I'm not a fan of random cuts, but it looks like this was calculated with a lot of thought put into it.

Obviously, there is the other side of that coin - I really feel for the coaches out of work, and the players that needed to readjust their plans - but cutting the program for a season where they couldn't play anyway was the right move to head off problems down the road during a period of uncertainty.

It's that kind of leadership and awareness the athletic departments at the D2 CSU's need.

[SW_Mustang]

I'm not sure. That reads more like the author didn't know what he was talking about than like they signaled a clear intent to pursue D2.

I happen to think you are right.

Some of the coaches have referenced "D2" in their tweets, but I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe that's actually the case.

Such a bizarre situation. Can't say I've seen anything like it.

[tsull]

In other news, Humboldt State is exploring becoming a Cal Poly technical school. I agree with this. Enrollment is plummeting up there, the awful president cut football and skipped town, they're not known for anything currently than a bunch of hippies smoking weed. Best to change their academic focus and mission, and maybe eventually get football back. That school needs an overhaul.

If you want to read about scandals, Linfield University has a huge one going on right now, NY Times even covering it. I find it amusing since for years Linfield has looked down its nose at Western Oregon only to find out that they're not better people than us or anyone else.

[Wildcat Khan]

In other news, Humboldt State is exploring becoming a Cal Poly technical school. I agree with this. Enrollment is plummeting up there, the awful president cut football and skipped town, they're not known for anything currently than a bunch of hippies smoking weed. Best to change their academic focus and mission, and maybe eventually get football back. That school needs an overhaul.

If you want to read about scandals, Linfield University has a huge one going on right now, NY Times even covering it. I find it amusing since for years Linfield has looked down its nose at Western Oregon only to find out that they're not better people than us or anyone else.

That is good news about HSU. That would also be a great way to get away from everything that president did to the school beyond the football program.

As for Linfield, that professor seems to have done the right thing. Maybe WOU should look into him and I saw that it is now worldwide coverage too.

[tsull]

I'd let Lincoln into the GNAC immediately for football. Before anyone thinks this is crazy, consider this: The GNAC had two schools that quit football, and another quit the university altogether in Concordia. The conference isn't good enough to be arrogant about its moves.

* Regarding Linfield, the president's wife wrote a letter to Oregon live / The Oregonian talking about how great he is, and the actually printed the freaking thing. Yes, I would hope Western Oregon would look into hiring the fired professor. Linfield will have a tough time attracting talented professors if they keep firing tenured ones.

[SW_Mustang]

That is good news about HSU. That would also be a great way to get away from everything that president did to the school beyond the football program.

As for Linfield, that professor seems to have done the right thing. Maybe WOU should look into him and I saw that it is now worldwide coverage too.

What happened up there? I thought Humboldt was a pretty well respect CSU at one point.

[tsull]

What happened up there? I thought Humboldt was a pretty well respect CSU at one point.

East Coast president cut football -- despite more than enough money raised to keep it and community begging her to re-consider. Athletic director supported cutting it. What kind of A.D. supports cutting football? Enrollment has been plummeting there, despite Cali being an enormous state with a zillion junior colleges, the overlooked area of the admissions game, IMO. Basically Humboldt is struggling and I think going the Cal Poly route would be a good one. If they were really smart they'd buy up some vacant buildings in Redding and build a branch campus.

[SW_Mustang]

East Coast president cut football -- despite more than enough money raised to keep it and community begging her to re-consider. Athletic director supported cutting it. What kind of A.D. supports cutting football? Enrollment has been plummeting there, despite Cali being an enormous state with a zillion junior colleges, the overlooked area of the admissions game, IMO. Basically Humboldt is struggling and I think going the Cal Poly route would be a good one. If they were really smart they'd buy up some vacant buildings in Redding and build a branch campus.

I remember finding it interesting that Humboldt County has (had, 5 years ago) a lower population density than Lyon County, where SMSU is. That seems to be about as rural as you can get in California - short of existing in the desert. I'd imagine that's playing into it as well, somewhat.

If I understand it correctly, Cal Poly tends to be more focused on STEM than on the Liberal Arts? If so, that's the move. I really think more public schools should go that route and stop competing with each other on English degrees. It's a big issue I'm seeing in my own state.

Sounds like another functioning, happy institution that got steamrolled by a rogue administration - and instead of dealing with simple enrollment issues, now they got a whole lotta other stuff to fix as a result.