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  • #46
    Re: Humboldt State Ending Football Program announced

    Originally posted by LSC Fan View Post
    Yep. Optimism has an expiration date and if you've been on a roller coaster ride (with more dips than ups) for the better part of a decade, the date comes MUCH sooner.

    The one thing you all had at ASU and what WTAM has now which is very absent at the school I support is very proactive administration with regards to the football program and giving it ALL the tools it needs to get the job done. They just didn't go out and hire a coach and say here, get the job done with these tools and don't bother us with asking for new ones which almost all your counterparts are gathering for recruiting, player retention, etc. That would be like asking today's military to fight a modern war with Korea or Vietnam era weapons. WTAM might be able to weather another couple of years without much long term damage if their current coach doesn't end up getting the job done. The Buffs were not a situation where they were losing games 84-0, etc and at the end of the day managed to navigate the NCAA investigation and coaching change fallout better than expected. I honestly thought they might end up back in the Ronnie Jones era when all was said and done.
    We would STILL kick their azz, unless China backed them.

    As far as WT......optimism is GREAT....but NOTHING matters, not coaches, stadiums, unis, excitment, etc....unless you are getting dubyas CONSISTENTLY and contending. If not, its just smoke and mirrors and WISHFUL thinking.

    I mean Hughes hasn't won a conference championship or even been a contender yet.....h3ll, he hasn't had a winning season yet and he is being compared to a coach & team with a natty?????? Hahahaha.

    After all WT went through, I'd be like Missouri, SHOW ME!! Until then, I wouldn't hold my breath.

    But, I wish them all the very best and hope all works as desired. I like success stories.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Humboldt State Ending Football Program announced

      Originally posted by BuffaloChip View Post
      I don't think I was comparing Hughes to the Carthel's. I was pointing out the time each Carthel took to build their program to a national level where they were competing for NC's. Can Hughes replicate that?

      I'd say our AD has a 4-5 year plan on his to-do list. If Hughes doesn't have WT solidly back in the top 3 of the LSC and making the playoffs by the 2021 season......Hughes will definitely be on the hot seat. WT doesn't invest in FB, build a new stadium, to be a second rate D2 program. Even mid-pack LSC is unacceptable. If Hughes doesn't get this thing really moving in the right direction by 2020, at least 7 wins, If I were AD, I'd be looking for someone who can.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Humboldt State Ending Football Program announced

        Originally posted by ASUPops View Post
        I love the optimism. New coach, new place to play, new unis. I remember those days. Very exciting for fans because everyone is optimistic. Good times.
        Just hope all this optimism equates to come W's.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Humboldt State Ending Football Program announced

          Originally posted by ASUPops View Post
          We would STILL kick their azz, unless China backed them.

          As far as WT......optimism is GREAT....but NOTHING matters, not coaches, stadiums, unis, excitment, etc....unless you are getting dubyas CONSISTENTLY and contending. If not, its just smoke and mirrors and WISHFUL thinking.

          I mean Hughes hasn't won a conference championship or even been a contender yet.....h3ll, he hasn't had a winning season yet and he is being compared to a coach & team with a natty?????? Hahahaha.

          After all WT went through, I'd be like Missouri, SHOW ME!! Until then, I wouldn't hold my breath.

          But, I wish them all the very best and hope all works as desired. I like success stories.

          I get where you are coming from. But right now as a fan and Alum of TAMUK/A&I, I'd do anything right now to have a slice or ounce of the optimism fans of WTAM, Angelo, Tarleton, Commerce, ENM or Midwestern have going into the season. There is none to be seen around here other than the same standard BS that every team and their kool aid drinking fans have right now which is more fantasy than reality about going 10-0, etc.

          I'll give you an example. If you go to our web page right now (Aug 16 1:30 PM CDT), you can't find but one short story on football and that was announcing the start of football drills o August 7. Meanwhile it's still filled with stories of the baseball season which was completed in early June and track which is not in season. Someone on here tell me if this is evident of a school that wants to use whatever tool at it's disposal to promote what is supposed to be the bread and butter sport?

          It's not our coaching staff's fault. I think we have good coaches. It's our blind as a bat powers to be that seem to think tradition will carry us over. I've been hearing that same meme for a decade now and no dice!

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Humboldt State Ending Football Program announced

            The LSC isn't going to get any easier. In fact, it will become better, I predict, and will make deep moves into the playoffs.

            For WT, it mostly all comes down to Hughes and his staff's ability to recruit great talent that fits his system and style of play. The 60/40 run/pass offense combined with stellar defense is a playoff proven winning combination. They have to turn wishful thinking into on-the-field success. Easy! :wink:

            Like Pop said, we need to be "shown." And, as I said earlier, solid progress needs to be seen each year before we can say the Hughes era was the right move by the AD.

            I only counted 7 DLs the other day at practice. 3 or 4 are freshmen. I sure hope they have 2 or 3 experienced transfers lined up to join the team by the time school starts. The OL is much improved.
            Last edited by BuffaloChip; 08-16-2018, 12:45 PM.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Humboldt State Ending Football Program announced

              Originally posted by BuffaloChip View Post
              The LSC isn't going to get any easier. In fact, it will become better, I predict, and will make deep moves into the playoffs.

              For WT, it mostly all comes down to Hughes and his staff's ability to recruit great talent that fits his system and style of play. The 60/40 run/pass offense combined with stellar defense is a playoff proven winning combination. They have to turn wishful thinking into on-the-field success. Easy! :wink:

              Like Pop said, we need to be "shown." And, as I said earlier, solid progress needs to be seen each year before we can say the Hughes era was the right move by the AD.

              I only counted 7 DLs the other day at practice. 3 or 4 are freshmen. I sure hope they have 2 or 3 experienced transfers lined up to join the team by the time school starts. The OL is much improved.
              In an interview the other day, one of the defensive lineman mentioned they hope to get Lance Hyder back. I saw him in a picture on Twitter of the defensive linemen at a Canyon school yesterday greeting students. He, in my opinion, is the best returner from last year and has started multiple years. That should help a little. In the picture there were 12 total; one was on crutches.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Humboldt State Ending Football Program announced

                Originally posted by Buff Fan 05 View Post
                In an interview the other day, one of the defensive lineman mentioned they hope to get Lance Hyder back. I saw him in a picture on Twitter of the defensive linemen at a Canyon school yesterday greeting students. He, in my opinion, is the best returner from last year and has started multiple years. That should help a little. In the picture there were 12 total; one was on crutches.
                12 is better than the 7 I counted the other day! We out t take these to the 2018 WT Season thread.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Humboldt State Ending Football Program announced

                  I don't believe Chip was comparing them at all. He was just making a point that it can take several years to build a consistent successful program. Aside from the Carthels and MSU who else has consistently been the top dog of the LSC for the past decade? Maskill has had forever at MSU to build a winning program. The LSC is a 2 horse show and has been for awhile. The only difference is the Carthel and the school. I would argue ENMU has been the second tier for awhile with other schools occasionally rotating there.

                  I can't speak for Chip but IMO he has the cautious eyes for WT while I have the optimistic eyes. In all reality I don't think WT will be competing for playoffs this year or next. But I think by the 2019 season WT can and should be mid tier if not 3rd in the LSC. After that we will see. I don't know if Hughes is a championship coach... but I am not going to count him out yet. Nesbitt rode on the coat tails of Don. Nesbitt was a great person but as soon as Carthels system players started graduating WT fell apart. The only reason Nesbitt had an even record on his last season at WT is because WNM blew the lead close to the end of the game. There was no optimism with Nesbitt. None. He wasn't good at recruiting players, his system was broken, and the defense was awful.

                  Hughes is a different beast all together. (Let me put my maroon tinted shades on) . His first year was a wash at recruiting. Literally almost had zero time to assemble a coaching staff and scout players. He honored most of Nesbitts offers even though they did not fit his system. Completely different type of athletes for different systems. It should surprise no one that WT's first season under Hughes did not include a dramatic turn around. Awful QB play, poor wide receivers, under sized O-line and poor special teams. You can't play the football that WT is trying to build with a small O-Line. Our running backs were talented and passed the "eye" test but had little help from the O-Line and the QB was destroyed every single game. If you watched any WT game you would have realized the defense was constantly on the field. The offense was 3 and out constantly.

                  But there are some points of optimism and change happening. The faithful can see it....but you have to look really hard. The defense was stout last year. Fast and furious. They got gassed by the end of almost all the games but for the first 3 quarters WT's defense was there. I don't attribute poor defensive play just to the defense. The offense never had consistent drives and WT did not have the depth that was needed to keep the defense on the field as long as they were. Alot of that defense is returning and WT finally seems to be building some depth and development type of players. (Something Nesbitt seemed to have an especially hard time doing). Additionally WT redshirted a ton of freshmen last year and recruited much better this year. Hughes is getting the pieces in place that he needs to have success. WT recruited monster defensive and offensive lineman this year. If Hughes decides not to redshirt them and let them play (get that experience)..... by next year I fully expect them to be one of the top lines in the conference. They will make mistakes and at times look sloppy...but they will grow and get that ever valuable gameday experience. Everyone knows that there is a massive difference in a college strength and conditioning program vs High School...but combine that with some experience and by year two you are looking at a much better player. WT seems to have found a QB (or two?) for the immediate future and possibly one in waiting. How this will translate to gameday is anyone's guess at this point. Someone can look like the next Dustin Vaughn in practice but end up being awful on gameday. We will see as this season goes.

                  One last thing. Hughes seems to be doing some healing in the WT community. No one was ever going to like Nesbitt, he just happened to be the coach after Carthel. The WT community that I have talked to are at minimum intrigued by what Hughes is doing and some are downright believers. I wouldn't say I am that far into him yet but I am optimistic. Granted my circles are small but at least there is some positive buzz.
                  Last edited by BuffTough; 08-16-2018, 09:13 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Humboldt State Ending Football Program announced

                    Originally posted by BuffTough View Post
                    I don't believe Chip was comparing them at all. He was just making a point that it can take several years to build a consistent successful program. Aside from the Carthels and MSU who else has consistently been the top dog of the LSC for the past decade? Maskill has had forever at MSU to build a winning program. The LSC is a 2 horse show and has been for awhile. The only difference is the Carthel and the school. I would argue ENMU has been the second tier for awhile with other schools occasionally rotating there.

                    I can't speak for Chip but IMO he has the cautious eyes for WT while I have the optimistic eyes. In all reality I don't think WT will be competing for playoffs this year or next. But I think by the 2019 season WT can and should be mid tier if not 3rd in the LSC. After that we will see. I don't know if Hughes is a championship coach... but I am not going to count him out yet. Nesbitt rode on the coat tails of Don. Nesbitt was a great person but as soon as Carthels system players started graduating WT fell apart. The only reason Nesbitt had an even record on his last season at WT is because WNM blew the lead close to the end of the game. There was no optimism with Nesbitt. None. He wasn't good at recruiting players, his system was broken, and the defense was awful.

                    Hughes is a different beast all together. (Let me put my maroon tinted shades on) . His first year was a wash at recruiting. Literally almost had zero time to assemble a coaching staff and scout players. He honored most of Nesbitts offers even though they did not fit his system. Completely different type of athletes for different systems. It should surprise no one that WT's first season under Hughes did not include a dramatic turn around. Awful QB play, poor wide receivers, under sized O-line and poor special teams. You can't play the football that WT is trying to build with a small O-Line. Our running backs were talented and passed the "eye" test but had little help from the O-Line and the QB was destroyed every single game. If you watched any WT game you would have realized the defense was constantly on the field. The offense was 3 and out constantly.

                    But there are some points of optimism and change happening. The faithful can see it....but you have to look really hard. The defense was stout last year. Fast and furious. They got gassed by the end of almost all the games but for the first 3 quarters WT's defense was there. I don't attribute poor defensive play just to the defense. The offense never had consistent drives and WT did not have the depth that was needed to keep the defense on the field as long as they were. Alot of that defense is returning and WT finally seems to be building some depth and development type of players. (Something Nesbitt seemed to have an especially hard time doing). Additionally WT redshirted a ton of freshmen last year and recruited much better this year. Hughes is getting the pieces in place that he needs to have success. WT recruited monster defensive and offensive lineman this year. If Hughes decides not to redshirt them and let them play (get that experience)..... by next year I fully expect them to be one of the top lines in the conference. They will make mistakes and at times look sloppy...but they will grow and get that ever valuable gameday experience. Everyone knows that there is a massive difference in a college strength and conditioning program vs High School...but combine that with some experience and by year two you are looking at a much better player. WT seems to have found a QB (or two?) for the immediate future and possibly one in waiting. How this will translate to gameday is anyone's guess at this point. Someone can look like the next Dustin Vaughn in practice but end up being awful on gameday. We will see as this season goes.

                    One last thing. Hughes seems to be doing some healing in the WT community. No one was ever going to like Nesbitt, he just happened to be the coach after Carthel. The WT community that I have talked to are at minimum intrigued by what Hughes is doing and some are downright believers. I wouldn't say I am that far into him yet but I am optimistic. Granted my circles are small but at least there is some positive buzz.
                    This is a great analysis! I am optimistic about Hughes and the team. After Nesbitt's caretaker year, I had little optimism for the program. Yes his winning record was due to wins against OPSU, McMurry, and Kingsville when they were down. Maybe Nesbitt will be more successful in the NAIA. I wish him luck.

                    I visited the practice this week and was impressed. Sure there's room for improvement, but they seem to be on the right track.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Humboldt State Ending Football Program announced

                      Just wanted to put this here now, so that by the end of the year all you WT folks have it.

                      West Texas Rain by Wade Bowen
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf1Ymva9S5g

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