OT: Would a Kingsville / Corpus Merger happen?

[chrisattsu]

Reading through GWB's next year post, there was a statement from TarletonTexan joking that "A&M System powers-that-be will reignite talks of merging A&M-Corpus Christi and A&M-Kingsville under one university and athletic program, carrying out that merger, adding football at the Corpus school, and taking their programs (with the new start-up football team) to the WAC along with Tarleton, West Texas A&M, ACU, and maybe SFA or Sam Houston from the Southland. Time will only tell...."

I didnt want to derail that thread so i started this one.

In 2016, rumors bubbled up that Chancellor Sharp wanted the two campuses to merge. It was understandably met with criticism. However, in a Texas Tribune article, he doesn't completely close the door on the idea stating "I don't think it is viable right now," he [Sharp] said. "I think it should be, and I think it is something that should happen. But I have said from the beginning that if we can't convince the community, it isn't going to happen." https://www.texastribune.org/2016/11...rpus-christi-/

It is also noted that merging the two would create a 23,000 student university for the Coastal Bend region.

With the recent downturn in Javs football, is there any chance of this especially if others moved with Tarleton?

['89HOG]

Reading through GWB's next year post, there was a statement from TarletonTexan joking that "A&M System powers-that-be will reignite talks of merging A&M-Corpus Christi and A&M-Kingsville under one university and athletic program, carrying out that merger, adding football at the Corpus school, and taking their programs (with the new start-up football team) to the WAC along with Tarleton, West Texas A&M, ACU, and maybe SFA or Sam Houston from the Southland. Time will only tell...."

I didnt want to derail that thread so i started this one.

In 2016, rumors bubbled up that Chancellor Sharp wanted the two campuses to merge. It was understandably met with criticism. However, in a Texas Tribune article, he doesn't completely close the door on the idea stating "I don't think it is viable right now," he [Sharp] said. "I think it should be, and I think it is something that should happen. But I have said from the beginning that if we can't convince the community, it isn't going to happen." https://www.texastribune.org/2016/11...rpus-christi-/

It is also noted that merging the two would create a 23,000 student university for the Coastal Bend region.

With the recent downturn in Javs football, is there any chance of this especially if others moved with Tarleton?

Chris, it was more than a rumor. Chancellor Sharp along with then TAMUK President, Dr. Tallant, went before the A&M BOR requesting permission to begin an in-depth study of a possible merger between Kingsville & CC. The BOR, being Aggies, completely misunderstood the recommendation as a request to approve a merger NOT just a request to begin a study to consider such merger. Since the idea was shot down, my biggest fear is (and I'll admit some of this comes from how they passed the name change back in '89) that many closed-door meetings have occurred since that day and plans for a merger are being considered. I've joked a few times about this happening and our new mascot, the Island Hogs (a pig in a hula skirt) would emerge in an attempt to appease both schools. Could it happen? Of course. Will it happen? Who knows. I hope that if a merger occurs, they keep athletics in Kingsville and the school stays the Javelinas. Anything short of that would be a dagger in this Javelina's heart.

[LSC Fan]

Chris, it was more than a rumor. Chancellor Sharp along with then TAMUK President, Dr. Tallant, went before the A&M BOR requesting permission to begin an in-depth study of a possible merger between Kingsville & CC. The BOR, being Aggies, completely misunderstood the recommendation as a request to approve a merger NOT just a request to begin a study to consider such merger. Since the idea was shot down, my biggest fear is (and I'll admit some of this comes from how they passed the name change back in '89) that many closed-door meetings have occurred since that day and plans for a merger are being considered. I've joked a few times about this happening and our new mascot, the Island Hogs (a pig in a hula skirt) would emerge in an attempt to appease both schools. Could it happen? Of course. Will it happen? Who knows. I hope that if a merger occurs, they keep athletics in Kingsville and the school stays the Javelinas. Anything short of that would be a dagger in this Javelina's heart.

Pretty much a good take. I would add the usual suspects ( and now thankfully a much smaller group due to folks dying off or moving away ironically) who have controlled the political machine and much to the City of Corpus Christ's and the regions determinant thanks to their anti development/ anti outsider agendas over the last few decades got very upset about it and got their media buddies involved and this help kill it or at least put it on ice for the time being. Really the motive was in response to the two UT-Pan American campuses in the RGV (Edinburg and Brownsville) merging and now they have access to the PUF (Permanent University Funds) because of the move allowed the enrollment to hit that threshold. Does it have some pros and cons? Yes.

The pros from a Kingsville perspective would have been a brand new stadium and athletic complex for football to meet the requirement for D1 Play. The baseball team would have moved to a nice but hardly used now minor league facility in Robstown which the county was willing to almost give it to A&M to take it off their hands. They really didn't go into detail how the other sports would have been divided up, but I'd assume basketball and volleyball would have stayed in Corpus due to the facilities and now getting an on campus arena for basketball if this ever gets talked about again. And I think it will because the simple fact both schools are now sandwiched between two schools that have full access to the PUF which is UTSA and UTRGV, it will have to be something both cities and schools will have look at again in order to be competitive in the market place.

The negatives would be which school would be allowed to retain their programs and which ones would be traded in order to retain those programs. My thinking would be TAMUK would keep Engineering and Ag as their focus and you would allow A&M CC to focus on business and Medical. They could both keep education colleges and art and humanities programs. They could add a college of Architecture and Vet Medicine to Kingsville which would compliment Engineering and Ag respectively . And A&M CC could get a law school and medical school and retain their marine studies program. And of course the political heavy lifting is going to be a task as many people in Kingsville don't trust Corpus for a few reasons. One is the name change which harmed Kingsville which helped Corpus when at the same time, A&M and state legislature started pouring in huge amounts of cash into Corpus while promises went unfilled in Kingsville for some of that same cash that was promised by the same politicians who pushed the name change. The same politicians who have their names graced on roads and buildings in Kingsville and were natives of the city too. Go figure.

But I hope they are not kicking the can down the road in regards to whatever plans the now AD and current President are making (if they are) for football for something that may never even see the light of day again. We need to plan as if this merger thing is dead , cremated, and the ashes sent out to sea.

[ASUPops]

Chris, it was more than a rumor. Chancellor Sharp along with then TAMUK President, Dr. Tallant, went before the A&M BOR requesting permission to begin an in-depth study of a possible merger between Kingsville & CC. The BOR, being Aggies, completely misunderstood the recommendation as a request to approve a merger NOT just a request to begin a study to consider such merger. Since the idea was shot down, my biggest fear is (and I'll admit some of this comes from how they passed the name change back in '89) that many closed-door meetings have occurred since that day and plans for a merger are being considered. I've joked a few times about this happening and our new mascot, the Island Hogs (a pig in a hula skirt) would emerge in an attempt to appease both schools. Could it happen? Of course. Will it happen? Who knows. I hope that if a merger occurs, they keep athletics in Kingsville and the school stays the Javelinas. Anything short of that would be a dagger in this Javelina's heart.

I believe your worst fear(s) will come true. I fear the "Javelina's" days are numbered.

[chrisattsu]

Wow. Based on what some of you have said, it does sound like trying days ahead for our friends on El Rancho.

I have to say, it has been a puzzle for me to see two completely different schools in the same university system exist within 40 miles of each other. It seems like a sizeable duplication of effort (duplication of high ranking administrators,student services and programs).Then again UH has their main campus and UH-Downtown is something different.

Didn't Corpus start as as satellite campus of Kingsville (like one of Tarleton's outlying campuses)?

[LSC Fan]

Wow. Based on what some of you have said, it does sound like trying days ahead for our friends on El Rancho.

I have to say, it has been a puzzle for me to see two completely different schools in the same university system exist within 40 miles of each other. It seems like a sizeable duplication of effort (duplication of high ranking administrators,student services and programs).Then again UH has their main campus and UH-Downtown is something different.

Didn't Corpus start as as satellite campus of Kingsville (like one of Tarleton's outlying campuses)?

Yes. It was Texas A&I Corpus Christi before it became Corpus Christi State and before it was part of Texas A&I, I think it belonged to the Baptist Church? It was a two year school until right before it changed over to A&M-CC. I guess the thinking was you could get your basics at Del Mar CC or A&I in Kingsville and then complete the Bachelors in Corpus. Texas A&M- San Antonio started off as a satellite campus of Kingsville as well. Now they are fully independent and growing.

The set up in RGV is the same with what was then UT Brownsville and UT Pan American in Edinburg as they are 65 miles apart. Now they are under the same umbrella.

I fully expect it to be a battle if it rears it's head again. But the pros and cons need to be fully vetted. The biggest pro, IMO is getting access to PUF which Tarleton enjoys and one has to think is making life easier as far as all the facility expansion going on in related to your move up to Division 1. Like I said, we have two schools with large enrollments and growing fast directly to the south and north of us in the UT system and if A&M wants to remain a viable player in the region, they will have to fund whatever entity is in place down here much better than they have. UT RGV will join the ranks of offering free or reduced tuition which pretty much targets some of the exact same students both A&M CC and Kingsville are trying to attract. To his credit, John Sharp recognizes this, but the way they went about this the first time was done wrong and very wrong put it mildly. The issues the region face should have been brought before the public first and then the possible fixes. It was done the other way around and all the sudden both schools supporters were screaming the sky was going to fall on them and the media and others got involved and it became the debacle noted in the article you posted.

What's need is an approach like that has been taken with the local Naval Air Stations where for years both communities were suspicious of the motives of the other in order to protect their base and Kingsville had every right to be more cautious because the political power base all lived in Corpus. But the Navy really counts the Kingsville base as a more valuable asset because of the wide open air space in the area which Corpus doesn't exactly enjoy. When Corpus finally figured it might be better to really prop up the KIngsville base during BRAC and tie theirs to it, it made the BRACs much easier to navigate. Same needs to be done with whatever A&M system looks to do with both campuses. Because it probably not a "if", but "when" they try again.

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

No thanks and I believe Javelinas alums feel the same way. I wouldn't want Corpus to take on old A&I nicknames or traditions as part of any merger.

[laker]

How is this supposed to work for sports- aren't the two almost fifty miles apart? Do you have football in Kingsville and basketball in Corpus Christi?

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

How is this supposed to work for sports- aren't the two almost fifty miles apart? Do you have football in Kingsville and basketball in Corpus Christi?

Correct. I know Corpus is trying to raise funds for a new basketball arena on the island so the students wouldn't have to drive 10 miles to the other side of town to attend a game. Not sure how that would play out. I guess they could combine forces and use buccaneer stadium in Corpus for their football games if they went that route. :wink::laugh:

[LSC Fan]

Correct. I know Corpus is trying to raise funds for a new basketball arena on the island so the students wouldn't have to drive 10 miles to the other side of town to attend a game. Not sure how that would play out. I guess they could combine forces and use buccaneer stadium in Corpus for their football games if they went that route. :wink::laugh:

No way should Buc even be considered for an A&M CC football program if they ever try to start one let alone a combined university program. Although the stadium is good and in much better shape than Javelina Stadium, the neighborhood is less desired. It's in the industrial area and the hood itself has seen much better days. It would be an instant hurdle for recruiting and the parking sucks big time.

I would recommend they build a nice regional stadium between Corpus and Kingsville sort of like what Eastern New Mexico did for years with Black Water Draw. Look at Google maps and Driscoll would be a good spot. The now hardly used Minor League park just up the road in Robstown was tossed around for a combined baseball program to locate. So why the heck not? And this part of the state could use a showcase type of stadium for which Buc and Javelina used to be. Closest thing you get to this is in San Antonio or the Houston area.

[wisdomgymrat]

No way should Buc even be considered for an A&M CC football program if they ever try to start one let alone a combined university program. Although the stadium is good and in much better shape than Javelina Stadium, the neighborhood is less desired. It's in the industrial area and the hood itself has seen much better days. It would be an instant hurdle for recruiting and the parking sucks big time.

I would recommend they build a nice regional stadium between Corpus and Kingsville sort of like what Eastern New Mexico did for years with Black Water Draw. Look at Google maps and Driscoll would be a good spot. The now hardly used Minor League park just up the road in Robstown was tossed around for a combined baseball program to locate. So why the heck not? And this part of the state could use a showcase type of stadium for which Buc and Javelina used to be. Closest thing you get to this is in San Antonio or the Houston area.

Horrible idea to not have a relatively close (on campus) facility. From a player and coaches stand point... it's a road game every time you play and is a pain in the butt getting equipment and etc. to and from an away game.

[Great White Buffalo]

The improved game-day experience with an on-campus stadium is unparalleled. WT's on-campus stadium is a huge advantage.
IMHO Wt will be able to recruit the players needed to compete for the LSC title.

[LSC Fan]

Horrible idea to not have a relatively close (on campus) facility. From a player and coaches stand point... it's a road game every time you play and is a pain in the butt getting equipment and etc. to and from an away game.

Oh I know. I'm just thinking along the lines of where you would place something like this to try to satisfy both schools if that has to be part of the deal. Has anything like this ever been done before where two schools combine sports programs? Of course I'm biased, but I would think football would need to stay in Kingsville and should only because A&M CC has no desire currently to take the next step although they promised to seriously consider it when they joined the Southland. I don't know what would change if this hypothetical exercise of merging the two ever occurred again?

[GoBuffsGo]

Oh I know. I'm just thinking along the lines of where you would place something like this to try to satisfy both schools if that has to be part of the deal. Has anything like this ever been done before where two schools combine sports programs? Of course I'm biased, but I would think football would need to stay in Kingsville and should only because A&M CC has no desire currently to take the next step although they promised to seriously consider it when they joined the Southland. I don't know what would change if this hypothetical exercise of merging the two ever occurred again?

I seriously doubt that the satisfaction of both schools will be a consideration when this is done. CCAMU would have a different idea about football if it were taking over an existing program, even a D2 program.

[chrisattsu]

Oh I know. I'm just thinking along the lines of where you would place something like this to try to satisfy both schools if that has to be part of the deal. Has anything like this ever been done before where two schools combine sports programs? Of course I'm biased, but I would think football would need to stay in Kingsville and should only because A&M CC has no desire currently to take the next step although they promised to seriously consider it when they joined the Southland. I don't know what would change if this hypothetical exercise of merging the two ever occurred again?

It looks like Long Island University did it this summer and caused the heartburn
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/c...128-story.html

I have hard time imagining a split athletic department where some sports are played in Corpus and others in Kingsville. Even the idea of splitting the difference with a Black Water Draw somewhere in the middle is problematic because it doesnt create that "on campus" experience.

I think in the end, they have to pick one school to become the traditional residential campus with athletics and the other becomes a professional campus for people just trying to get degrees.Corpus could become the "urban" campus focused on business, medical, architecture, computer information system and Kingsville because of its history remains the traditional university campus with all other degrees and sports programs.

Or do you move the administration and the "flagship" to Corpus because it is in a population center with easier access to corporate money, larger sport facilities (ABC, Whataburger field). Kingsville becomes the research campus focused on Ag, engineering and other programs that are better situated away from the city.