The First of Many?

[SW_Mustang]

[QUOTE=LSC Fan;n507443]

We had Atari and Commodore 64's. Don't make fun of us.

Nothing wrong with a little Halo on the 2600

[LSC Fan]

After I posted that I realized that's the M/O for a lot of college students already, before the pandemic - haha.

This is going to sound like I'm insulting a bunch of people and I don't mean for it to be, but I've read a lot about online education on this board. My interpretation is the vast majority of the board are older guys who don't understand it and are trying to make sense of it. I've tried to put out there how it works, but I'm not sure if it's getting through to anyone. But I'll put it here too -

Online education programs are intended for working adults who can't physically be on campus. They will still take the 18-22 crowd, because money, but very few 18 y/o's actually do online programs. Just like in the 1980's, kids want to party, socialize, all that fun stuff. These programs are crafted for internet delivery. They range in quality based on the subject, instructor, and yes - student discipline.

At SMSU, traditional college students typically take online courses for one of three reasons:
1) Scheduling conflict
2) Summer courses
3) The course is only offered online (these are very rare)

What happened as a response to the pandemic is a lot of professors with no online instruction experience were forced to move courses not optimized for online delivery into an online setting with only 2-3 weeks to prepare - so the quality bottomed out in many cases from what I've seen. Students don't want to pay full-tuition for these courses since they aren't getting the full instruction.

The question I've tried to answer many, many times on this board:

What will happen when online classes replace in-person classes completely?

-That's not going to happen - ever. Not even hypothetically does that make the slightest bit of sense. Let's get that idea out of our heads.

I just finished my B.S. last May, and even as a non-traditional student I strived to be on campus as much as possible - so much so that when I had to take an online section for a course, I got permission to show up for the in-person lectures. Like I said - 18 y/o's want to party, socialize, and interact. They don't want to sit in their bedrooms staring at a computer screen, in the vast majority of cases. There will always be exceptions, but folks in the 1980's isolated themselves too.

Hopefully that clears it up for you as to what's going on - I'm always happy to answer any questions as a Millennial, recent college grad.

Good take from someone young. I do think on line courses related to the basics could very well thrive IF

1) Colleges are forced to go to this model by lawmakers
2) Colleges see this as a method to stop declining enrollment, especially if it stops the bleeding at rival schools


But who knows? The whole economy as we know is going to have a massive reset. IF we are going to get serious about bringing more manufacturing back to the good ol' USA or at least our side of the world, then the trades will be in demand and the traditional four year school will have to adapt accordingly. It used to be once upon a time some of the four years offered what has been farmed out largely to two years (JUCO or Community Colleges) or trade specific schools. IF we are going to bring back our pharma manufacturing from China and other points of the world, schools will be needed to fill the skills for those jobs which are not four year degrees and many of community colleges are not equipped to teach this, but four year schools with pharmacy or med schools can.


But back to the online course thing. It would be interesting to see as a test project to see if incoming students would be more attracted to on line if the cost were lower by several dollars vs the traditional method. Have the available slots for the online match the numbers for the traditional sit down class at the regular price and see where the students go. And then give them the same exams and see if the results differ too.

[LSC Fan]

[QUOTE=SW_Mustang;n507451]

Nothing wrong with a little Halo on the 2600

Ha. Actually my college days kind of coincided with the first Nintendos. Anyone up for a game of Tecmo Bowl?

[SW_Mustang]

[QUOTE=LSC Fan;n507465]

Ha. Actually my college days kind of coincided with the first Nintendos. Anyone up for a game of Tecmo Bowl?

I actually put together a respectable collection of NES games a few years ago, although neither of my systems work.

I've been dying to play a little Ice Hockey:

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

r[QUOTE=LSC Fan;n507443]

We had Atari and Commodore 64's. Don't make fun of us.

Man this post takes me back in time. I still have my commodore 64 in an attic somewhere. Remember playing games like Contra, paperboy, etc.after college classes during lunch before I studied.

[LSC Fan]

[QUOTE=Buffalo/Islander Alum;n507505]r

Man this post takes me back in time. I still have my commodore 64 in an attic somewhere. Remember playing games like Contra, paperboy, etc.after college classes during lunch before I studied.

After my Mom passed away in 1995, we had an estate sale/auction and my old Commodore 64 sold for a few hundred bucks. I saw it on the itemized detail and asked the Auctioneer if this was in error and he said the HAM radio operators loved them and they get bid up anytime he had a chance to auction one off. Just for the heck of it, I just did a quick Google search of HAM radio and Commodore 64's and they are still being used! Go figure.....

[LionFan]

Started on the Atari 2600 and still playing regularly on the PS4.

[FIT Panthers]

My wife still has a 2600, she gets a kick out of those old games! Otherwise it's the Switch these days.

[Boohaha]

You are correct students are requesting refunds as they should, but the schools are not turning around and doing it at rapid speed either nor are they returning all of the fees they collected. UTSA sent notices they will be refunding some of the parking fees to students as well as some room and board for on campus resident students. Parking fees have been one of the biggest extortion of money on college campuses for years, so isn't that sweet of them to give some of it back to the students?

I feel for everyone who is having a negative impact thanks to the Covid thing. But in our whole economic sphere, college education will be the last to feel any real pain at least when it comes to massive layoffs and restructuring. They've always had the good ol' Fed and State governments step in with giving students more money in the form of grants and loans in order to continue that gravy train and cutting or consolidating operations or jobs was secondary. Sure some would make symbolic cuts and then scream this is the end of our school, but Uncle Sammy usually softened the blow. However this time might be different if the students don't show up. The schools which have died over the history of higher ed in this country almost always met their demise thanks to declining enrollment and if declines start at 10% and then multiply from there, then yes Houston you will have a problem. The other thing that was starting to catch on before this thing hit was some college aged kids going straight to trade schools instead of a traditional four year because many of the trades are significantly lacking skill workers. And you can thank a whole two or three decades of pushing kids to go the four year route instead of the trade route for this. Generation X (my generation) was the biggest beneficiary if you will of this thinking because we came of age while four year schools and other in the education establishment were trying to make amends for discrimination of the past and the best way to do this was to open the doors to everyone and open the checkbooks too in the form of scholarships and grants which pretty much shut out the trades. On top of this, in some areas counselors were reluctant to recommend trades to students because he or she might be accused of discrimination because for the fact of the matter back in the day like post 70's, some kids were discouraged to go four years because of stereotypes and discrimination. But now we have baby boomers and those on the edge of the baby boom generation retiring from these trade jobs and because Gen X was encouraged to go to service type jobs (IE non dirty Jobs), The millennials and whatever the current generation is called can and are picking up the slack albeit more are needed.

My oldest graduated from high school in 2016 and while my wife and I were sitting in the auditorium at his Senior awards night ceremony, a number of kids came on stage to pick up their Welders Certs from the local Community College for which they earned while finishing their Senior year. The kids were ALREADY working and the day they graduated from high school, many of them transitioned straight from part time to full time and started earning up to 60K on company time at some of the local refineries and pipe yards . On top of this, many find work off company time and easily earn another 10, 20 to 30k or more at least when the oil field was hot. I was sitting there thinking where do I sign up as a forty something old goat who was looking at the very real possibility I'd have to be making a job/industry transition which indeed is currently in progress.

This has been our philosophy with our boys, they don't have to go to college, but they need some skill. Like i told them I supported them and their mother on a job that required 0 college education, but it did take training.

[ASUPops]

Pops where are you getting the one year hiatus info? I keep seeing you post that but my son just graduated from a 6a high school and almost every kid we know is headed somewhere just like every other year?

2 university presidents, 1 ISD super, all my wife's co-workers (she is a Asst Principle) and friends who are teachers, counselors, and principles. and basically all over the media.

I did a quick search on google and copied the url for the first item that came up.....
https://www.washingtonpost.com/educa...college-covid/

[ASUPops]

We (faulty and staff) at ASU are making plans to return to on campus for the Fall, but it will be a very different environment. We are scrambling to figure out how to bring about 6,500 kids on to campus from all over the state, country, and world. This is into an area (San Angelo) that so far has been relatively COVID-19 free. The logistics of this are enormous (classroom adjustments to social distancing, labs in the STEM and healthcare classes, feeding in cafeterias, preventing congregation of "invincible" 18 to 22 year olds, all of this coupled with older, at-risk faculty and staff, etc.) and all of this without adequate testing to see where we are and who has what. What do you do when you get positive tests, how can you screen 500 student coming into a building for a 10:00 AM class while controlling entry points?

Just social distancing of classrooms means that instantly classrooms that once held 40 students will be down to 20 or less; requiring a different instruction model, or doubling of cases offered; all with the same finite number of classroom and faculty.

It is mind boggling to think about even a small piece of this, much less the entire operation of the university, not to mention the liability issues involved, both morally and legally. I can understand the thought process of the Cal State System and why they made the decision to stay online for Fall.

While we are making these plans, all of us are fully cognizant of the fact that these plans could be all for nothing and we may be online as well in Fall. As I have read in many places, we are not really making the decision, the virus is making them for us and we are just reacting. But, we would be negligent to not be doing this planning ahead of time.

I hear MUCH about not having adequate tests. Does every student get a flu test?? NO. Only those who have symptoms.....and majority of people sick with the flu NEVER get tested.

SARS CoV2 will be no different in the future.

Here is why testing is USELESS unless you show symptoms......let's say you are tested today and the results comeback negative. Then you come in contact with ONE person 10 minutes later who is infected, yet asymptomatic and you become infected. Should you be tested again? Rinse & repeat.

The only effective test for asymptomatic people would be an antigen test. We are getting there. BUT, NO ONE yet knows the immunity, if any, for this novel virus. Anyone who states they do is passing false info on faulty data.

[ASUPops]

The second schools announce an online semester, they'll lose students immediately - and in many cases permanently. If I were a trad student, I'd never pay full price for a semester of Zoom courses. They're just not the same. Especially if I had to take a bunch of "hands-on" courses, science courses with labs and the like. Add in the fee schedule that students are responsible for but can't render services on - and I'd leave school on the spot.

If I were in that situation - I'd consider one of a few options. I'd look to JUCOs for courses, I'd work part-time and study for CLEP tests, or I'd just take an entire gap semester and work full-time to pay down the student loans. If I were a freshman, I would just commit to a full gap year and work or something. No point wasting a year of the experience to sit in my bedroom staring at a computer screen.

BINGO. EXACTLY what is happening.

Great post.

[LSC Fan]

This has been our philosophy with our boys, they don't have to go to college, but they need some skill. Like i told them I supported them and their mother on a job that required 0 college education, but it did take training.

My second born just finished his first year of college. Last fall he decided he wanted to try to signing on with a major city fire department, so he will be waiting to see if he makes it through to the academy which will start next Jan. Of our three, we kind of figured he'd be the kid who would go the military/law enforcement route, so the fire/EMT thing is not too far off. The pay during the academy part of the training is not too bad at all and once he's with the department,. starting salary is 50K plus benefits with almost guaranteed overtime of 20K or more. So in couple of years as 21 year old he could be making 70K plus benefits. Not bad if he wants to rise up the career ladder as well and chooses to retire early when that time comes. I'm ALL FOR IT.

[Boohaha]

My second born just finished his first year of college. Last fall he decided he wanted to try to signing on with a major city fire department, so he will be waiting to see if he makes it through to the academy which will start next Jan. Of our three, we kind of figured he'd be the kid who would go the military/law enforcement route, so the fire/EMT thing is not too far off. The pay during the academy part of the training is not too bad at all and once he's with the department,. starting salary is 50K plus benefits with almost guaranteed overtime of 20K or more. So in couple of years as 21 year old he could be making 70K plus benefits. Not bad if he wants to rise up the career ladder as well and chooses to retire early when that time comes. I'm ALL FOR IT.

Something to think about, with our sons we are buying them each a bumper pull rv trailer in decent working order. The way we see it it gives them a cheaper place to live, and the freedom to seek a good job without having to be "all in" with a lease etc. The way some trades work moves it could help them keep wlrking till they have enough experience they can hold those more permanent jobs that older experienced guys in the trades tend to hold.

[LionFan]

I agree if classess are going to all virtual classes it'd be a waste of money. But I'm not seeing anything about that at all in terms of all classes going that route. There may be more than normal, but it seems like social distancing is how most of them we are familiar with are dealing with it. I'm definitely not hearing anyone just throwing the year away and working at chilis to save money. That's a risky move, most kids that go that route never end up going.

My kiddo is in the middle of discussions with a couple of fraternities at Oklahoma State, in two weeks he will be headed there for rush, sign in mid July and move in date is August 10, no talks of virtual classes.

In the link I posted about the tamc ad talking about fall football, he thinks we could social distance 6k people in memorial. Some are trying to make things happen, some are looking for ways out.