NSIC Membership

[ctrabs74]

We are absolutely going to see a split at some point. As I've said before I think it will be a "have and have nots" type of deal. Just my opinion of course, but it just seems like it will be a split breaking of a NCC/NSIC variety.

I wouldn't be shocked if we see a Minnesota/Dakota split within the NSIC in a few years. It would appear that there are enough North Dakota and South Dakota schools (plus Wayne State-Nebraska) in D2 - even if you presume that Black Hills State and SD Mines might consider finding a different conference (I can't imagine the budget for those trips to Colorado and New Mexico are helping matter much) - where they could sponsor their own league.

[badboyblynn]

I know that the GPAC is a step up from the NSAA, but with the greatly increased travel and losing the rivalries I'm not sure why they made the change.

Laker, I think the Jimmies moved to the GPAC based on the "peer schools" theory, like Morningside left the NCC. Dickinson State, Valley City State, Dakota State and even Mayville State are 'state-supported' and the GPAC are all 'faith-based' private schools similar to Jamestown.
In the reverse situation for comparison, Peru State in little Peru, Nebraska is a perfect fit location-wise for the GPAC, but the league won't let them in because they believe Nebraska may someday throw big money at PSC.

[NSU4LIFE]

I wouldn't be shocked if we see a Minnesota/Dakota split within the NSIC in a few years. It would appear that there are enough North Dakota and South Dakota schools (plus Wayne State-Nebraska) in D2 - even if you presume that Black Hills State and SD Mines might consider finding a different conference (I can't imagine the budget for those trips to Colorado and New Mexico are helping matter much) - where they could sponsor their own league.

Mary, Minot, Northern, Sioux Falls and Wayne isn't a very big conference...

[ctrabs74]

Mary, Minot, Northern, Sioux Falls and Wayne isn't a very big conference...

I get that. I was also factoring in Black Hills, SD Mines and Chadron from the RMAC. If nothing else, it couldn't hurt to at least kick the tires. Throw in Augie (presuming they're still in D2) and that's not a bad 10 team league within the Dakotas and Nebraska.

[laker]

Laker, I think the Jimmies moved to the GPAC based on the "peer schools" theory, like Morningside left the NCC. Dickinson State, Valley City State, Dakota State and even Mayville State are 'state-supported' and the GPAC are all 'faith-based' private schools similar to Jamestown.
In the reverse situation for comparison, Peru State in little Peru, Nebraska is a perfect fit location-wise for the GPAC, but the league won't let them in because they believe Nebraska may someday throw big money at PSC.

What are your thoughts on the building plans for Dakota State? Some think that could foreshadow a move to D2, or is it more likely one to the GPAC. Or would that be the same thing as PSC since they are a state school. Mt Marty adding football makes it look like the GPAC is full.

[Stanger86]

Schools are going to need to figure out where their priorities lie. Fans have discussed an East/West split for a while, but who would be the first school to make such a jump? Schools only left the NCC for FCS. After that, it was a sinking ship and schools knew they had to bail. The NSIC is not sinking.

As long as Augie is still here, they will be NSIC. And as long as Augie is NSIC, USF will be NSIC. Northern sees themselves in a high esteem, I'd assume, and wouldn't willfully leave the NSIC for D3 call-ups. WSC won't want to leave, if they haven't left to join their in-state rivals. Southwest won't leave the in-state rivals. Mary and Minot, sure. Crookston, possibly. I bet they'd get someone like MSU-Billings too. But that's hardly enough to create a conference.

[badboyblynn]

What are your thoughts on the building plans for Dakota State? Some think that could foreshadow a move to D2, or is it more likely one to the GPAC. Or would that be the same thing as PSC since they are a state school. Mt Marty adding football makes it look like the GPAC is full.

It won't be to the GPAC since DSU is a state school. I'll be there Aug 25th for the Dakota Wesleyan game, (expecting another 5K for the AG Bowl), and will chat with some locals about the facility. What I've seen looks D2'ish, very nice. If Augie goes, maybe the Trojans would fit the bill; not sure tho.

[SW_Mustang]

What are your thoughts on the building plans for Dakota State? Some think that could foreshadow a move to D2, or is it more likely one to the GPAC. Or would that be the same thing as PSC since they are a state school. Mt Marty adding football makes it look like the GPAC is full.

To be fair, I was just being hypothetical - I don't actually believe they'll make the jump soon (if at all). DSU is rapidly expanding academics and is becoming a player nationally in ways USD and SDSU could only dream of, and D2 would be a nice compliment. Combined with the facilities upgrades, it just seemed like a waste to stay NAIA.

Then again, there's a lot more that goes into it - and they may very well be happy with where they are, which is awesome.

[Guest]

Schools are going to need to figure out where their priorities lie. Fans have discussed an East/West split for a while, but who would be the first school to make such a jump? Schools only left the NCC for FCS. After that, it was a sinking ship and schools knew they had to bail. The NSIC is not sinking.

As long as Augie is still here, they will be NSIC. And as long as Augie is NSIC, USF will be NSIC. Northern sees themselves in a high esteem, I'd assume, and wouldn't willfully leave the NSIC for D3 call-ups. WSC won't want to leave, if they haven't left to join their in-state rivals. Southwest won't leave the in-state rivals. Mary and Minot, sure. Crookston, possibly. I bet they'd get someone like MSU-Billings too. But that's hardly enough to create a conference.

Here is the issue with Augie. Augie does not want to be in the NSIC any longer. They have their sights set on D1, but from what I am told due to old NCC animosity the Summit will not extend an invitation to them. Back in I believe 2018 they said they were moving to D1 without an invitation. Obviously, they haven't received one and haven't moved yet. So if they can find a way into D1 that could solve USF membership debate.

[IceBoxDragon]

Here is the issue with Augie. Augie does not want to be in the NSIC any longer. They have their sights set on D1, but from what I am told due to old NCC animosity the Summit will not extend an invitation to them. Back in I believe 2018 they said they were moving to D1 without an invitation. Obviously, they haven't received one and haven't moved yet. So if they can find a way into D1 that could solve USF membership debate.

Would the Missouri Valley Conference be an option if the Summit isn't available?

[laker]

Would the Missouri Valley Conference be an option if the Summit isn't available?

The MVC already has 12 teams, with Drake & UNI being the closest in distance to Augie. Probably not.

[vikingfaithful]

Here is the issue with Augie. Augie does not want to be in the NSIC any longer. They have their sights set on D1, but from what I am told due to old NCC animosity the Summit will not extend an invitation to them. Back in I believe 2018 they said they were moving to D1 without an invitation. Obviously, they haven't received one and haven't moved yet. So if they can find a way into D1 that could solve USF membership debate.

Saying AU does not want to be in the NSIC any longer is pure speculation on your part. When the Summit league bid was spurned by Denver, Usd and Sdsu, AU put their finances and attention towards D1 Hockey including a new Ice Arena on campus. Augustana all along has said ONLY with an invitation would they re-classify towards D1. If the Summit loses some members and asks AU to join, maybe then the move would happen, for now they're happy with the NSIC.

As for an East/West, North/South or Haves/Have nots split in the league it won't happen. There is safety in a 16-team conference namely in scheduling and shared administrative costs. It was your presidents and AD's who voted every member in.

[Stanger86]

Saying AU does not want to be in the NSIC any longer is pure speculation on your part. When the Summit league bid was spurned by Denver, Usd and Sdsu, AU put their finances and attention towards D1 Hockey including a new Ice Arena on campus. Augustana all along has said ONLY with an invitation would they re-classify towards D1. If the Summit loses some members and asks AU to join, maybe then the move would happen, for now they're happy with the NSIC.

As for an East/West, North/South or Haves/Have nots split in the league it won't happen. There is safety in a 16-team conference namely in scheduling and shared administrative costs. It was your presidents and AD's who voted every member in.

The Augie decision is really the key to a lot of this. If Augie leaves, the top option for replacement to keep the 16-school conference is probably Jamestown. If that happens, I don't think Upper Iowa is too keen on another 8-hour drive within the conference. I'm sure Wayne wouldn't necessarily like replacing a 2-hour drive with a 6-hour drive either. Also, these schools will have to look at how travel partners are changed. Swapping Augie for Jamestown in this example isn't a clean switch. Someone would also move from the north to the south (likely St Cloud), which would mean Wayne would now have a regular 5.5 hour trip and Upper Iowa would be adding a 4.5 hour trip on the regular (that's actually a benefit for UIU, slightly closer than Augie). The threat of some fringe schools leaving could be the push needed for a split to happen.

[MrAugustana]

Here is the issue with Augie. Augie does not want to be in the NSIC any longer. They have their sights set on D1, but from what I am told due to old NCC animosity the Summit will not extend an invitation to them. Back in I believe 2018 they said they were moving to D1 without an invitation. Obviously, they haven't received one and haven't moved yet. So if they can find a way into D1 that could solve USF membership debate.

Saying AU does not want to be in the NSIC any longer is pure speculation on your part. When the Summit league bid was spurned by Denver, Usd and Sdsu, AU put their finances and attention towards D1 Hockey including a new Ice Arena on campus. Augustana all along has said ONLY with an invitation would they re-classify towards D1. If the Summit loses some members and asks AU to join, maybe then the move would happen, for now they're happy with the NSIC.

As for an East/West, North/South or Haves/Have nots split in the league it won't happen. There is safety in a 16-team conference namely in scheduling and shared administrative costs. It was your presidents and AD's who voted every member in.

The Augie decision is really the key to a lot of this. If Augie leaves, the top option for replacement to keep the 16-school conference is probably Jamestown. If that happens, I don't think Upper Iowa is too keen on another 8-hour drive within the conference. I'm sure Wayne wouldn't necessarily like replacing a 2-hour drive with a 6-hour drive either. Also, these schools will have to look at how travel partners are changed. Swapping Augie for Jamestown in this example isn't a clean switch. Someone would also move from the north to the south (likely St Cloud), which would mean Wayne would now have a regular 5.5 hour trip and Upper Iowa would be adding a 4.5 hour trip on the regular (that's actually a benefit for UIU, slightly closer than Augie). The threat of some fringe schools leaving could be the push needed for a split to happen.

There's no Augie decision to consider here. The rules are that Augie can't go D1 without a conference invite. They didn't get an invite from the Summit League (the only D1 conference that makes any sense for Augie whatsoever). There is no "moving to D1 without an invitation" as realignmentreport1 suggested because D1 doesn't allow independent move-ups like they did 10-15 years ago when SDSU/USD/NDSU/UND moved up out of the NCC. The MVFC would be a basically insurmountable mountain to climb if they tried to go that route (not that the MVFC would let them in anyway), and that still doesn't solve Augie's non-football situation anyway, and other than D1 hockey, individual sports aren't allowed to go D1 while the rest of the athletic department stays D2. So there's really no tangible solution for Augie to go D1.

As vikingfaithful pointed out, the focus is now D1 hockey, D2 everything else and it appears it will stay that way for the foreseeable future, especially with the cost of D1 hockey, which is lots and lots of money. Honestly, I think the D1 hockey thing is going to work out after a few years, but D1 hockey won't be strong enough (or profitable enough) to pull the rest of the athletic department up to the D1 level in the near future, if ever. This isn't a "once we get to the top, we'll reach down and pull you up" scenario. Long term we are going to be D1 hockey, D2 everything else.

As someone who was pro-D1 for Augie up until the Summit rejection, I would be fine if it happened someday down the line, but for now, all the D1 talk did is kill our recruiting in football and men's basketball without any payoff. Now that we're securely D2 for the foreseeable future, our football and basketball programs are back on track with recruiting, as reflected by both teams winning the conference this past year. I would imagine the NSIC admins feel as secure about Augie sticking around as they ever have at this point, and I don't see any realistic scenarios where any other schools leave and open the door for Jamestown or DSU or anyone else who may try to go D2 in the future.

That being said, I would have guessed the NSIC was secure at a healthy 14 teams ten years ago and then they took in USF and Minot (I think) and proved me wrong, so maybe they have no problem pushing up to 18 as well. But I don't think Augie is the key to any of this like it would have been 2-3 years ago.

[laker]

Saying AU does not want to be in the NSIC any longer is pure speculation on your part. When the Summit league bid was spurned by Denver, Usd and Sdsu, AU put their finances and attention towards D1 Hockey including a new Ice Arena on campus. Augustana all along has said ONLY with an invitation would they re-classify towards D1. If the Summit loses some members and asks AU to join, maybe then the move would happen, for now they're happy with the NSIC.

As for an East/West, North/South or Haves/Have nots split in the league it won't happen. There is safety in a 16-team conference namely in scheduling and shared administrative costs. It was your presidents and AD's who voted every member in.

I saw today that Augie will be playing at Notre Dame next year in hockey. I will be pulling for the Vikings in that series.