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  • Originally posted by Millsy View Post

    Let's face it though, if you are a prospective student, are you even going to notice billboards anymore (and print advertising as well)? I know my kids, when I am driving, have their faces buried into TikTok, not what is going by outside the window. Schools really need to push the social media presence to get to the current prospective students. And I guess I am out of the TikTok loop to even know if MnSCU schools are out there or not.
    Yup. I view billboards as the bare minimum. Honestly, I think for smaller state schools that can't rely on thinks like legacy, having a name brand, and a real athletic identity (like what the Dakota schools have), the best way seems to be infrastructure and unique academic offerings, and then getting people in the door. TV commercials aren't that effective and social media marketing is important, but it's still an uphill battle.

    SMSU and MSU have TikTok, but I'm not sure about the others. They cross-post on the platforms I use, which is how I know. Otherwise, I wouldn't have any idea. We've also tried YouTube, but that's next to impossible to gain traction on - especially if the videos aren't being professionally produced.

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    • I think contraction is the answer more than expansion. And maybe we will get it. From the local news station in Crookston

      SPORTS FEEVER – February 23, 2023 - KROX (kroxam.com)

      We have been hearing rumors that the Upper Midwest Athletic Conference (UMAC) conference has its eyes set on trying to get a few NCAA Division II teams to move down to D-3 and join its conference, and the University of Minnesota Crookston is one of those schools they are trying to recruit. Whether it is the conference just throwing ideas of schools they would like to court or serious discussion, we don’t know. But our Wyatt Morrel played baseball at Northwestern in St. Paul, and they are telling him that UMC has been talked about as a target. So there is a little fire behind all the smoke.

      What does this mean? Nothing right now, but it might be the best-case scenario at this point for UMC! They would be able to compete with area kids in most sports, be more competitive in all sports and maybe create some more interest. Plus, hockey could be a real varsity sport instead of a club team, and that would be huge, and they should be able to compete pretty quickly.

      The UMAC conference currently has the following core members –
      Minnesota Morris (UMC sister school)
      Wisconsin Superior
      Bethany Lutheran College (Mankato)
      Crown College (Bonifacius, MN)
      Martin Luther College (New Ulm)
      North Central University (Minneapolis)
      Northland College (Ashland, Wis)
      University of Northwestern (St. Paul)

      Those are the teams for volleyball, soccer, cross country, basketball, baseball, and softball. Hockey would have to find a conference in D-3 with the MIAC or WIAC a possibility.

      Would it be a good move for UMC? I honestly believe so. Plus, it would save the school a lot of money in travel and athletic scholarships. There are no athletic scholarships in NCAA D-3. Plus, you could be competitive with more local kids. Kids might fit in better in Crookston with a small town and campus with a huge lack of nightlife for college kids.

      Let’s take a look at UMC Sports this year – Of the four “big sports” that have completed the season so far, it has been a massive struggle for the UMC teams.

      Soccer was 1-15-1 overall and 1-13-1 in the NSIC (.100 winning percentage in conference)
      Volleyball was 5-23 overall and 4-16 in the NSIC (.200 winning percentage in conference)
      Men’s Basketball was 2-26 overall and 1-21 in the NSIC (.045 winning percentage in conference)
      Women’s Basketball was 10-19 overall and 9-13 in the NSIC (.409 winning percentage in conference), and they lost their last eight games of the season.

      We will see what happens, but this might be the best move they could make, or start their own conference with the likes of Mary, Minot State, Bemidji State, Minnesota State Moorhead, Southwest Minnesota State etc.

      The Northern Sun is not the answer for UMC anymore. It is that simple.


      Hopefully there is truth here, and UMC can find a new home. Better for everyone involved.

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      • Originally posted by CheapSkate View Post
        I think contraction is the answer more than expansion. And maybe we will get it. From the local news station in Crookston

        Hopefully there is truth here, and UMC can find a new home. Better for everyone involved.
        Very interesting. Years ago I had a long conversation with an official at Martin Luther College about this. The UMAC was booting now departed Presentation and I asked about UMC. He said that the problem was a travel partner. UM-Morris is already there- UMC could even bring back football. I think it would be a great move.

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        • Originally posted by CheapSkate View Post
          I think contraction is the answer more than expansion. And maybe we will get it. From the local news station in Crookston

          Hopefully there is truth here, and UMC can find a new home. Better for everyone involved.
          The sooner the better in my opinion. Crookston is not an NSIC level institution and should not be D2. This does not solve the football scheduling issue and makes things a little more complicated in adding a school that has all sports as the NSIC would be at an odd number again, but that is a problem that can be solved.

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          • Originally posted by CheapSkate View Post

            We will see what happens, but this might be the best move they could make, or start their own conference with the likes of Mary, Minot State, Bemidji State, Minnesota State Moorhead, Southwest Minnesota State etc.

            The Northern Sun is not the answer for UMC anymore. It is that simple.[/I][/INDENT]

            I gotta say if I were those schools listed I'd be pretty offended to be lumped in with the likes of UMC to be demoted to D3

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            • Originally posted by Thunder View Post

              This does not solve the football scheduling issue and makes things a little more complicated in adding a school that has all sports as the NSIC would be at an odd number again, but that is a problem that can be solved.
              AT SOME POINT, this scheduling issue which is linked to a conference footprint issue may become too much of a headache. Might they look at blowing up the NSIC ( in its current configuration) and other D2 Dakota and Nebraska schools and reconfigure these schools into multiple conferences to help alleviate scheduling and travel issues. One big move; instead of trying to patch work the current configuration. Just a thought????????

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              • For many years Morningside College in Sioux City, Iowa athletics were similar to UMC. They claim moving to NAIA saved their school, in a travel friendly conference (GPAC) where athletics thrive, have brought back school pride. This would be the case for UMC, I believe.
                This is my personal feelings, the league should force SCSU hand and tell them bring back football or look else-where for a conference. I do not believe a university that size can't find room in it's budget for football, if not find a way to cut fat from the athletic dept. Huskies were a highly competitive program with a proud winning tradition. Bring back football SCSU.

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                • Originally posted by vikingfaithful View Post
                  For many years Morningside College in Sioux City, Iowa athletics were similar to UMC. They claim moving to NAIA saved their school, in a travel friendly conference (GPAC) where athletics thrive, have brought back school pride. This would be the case for UMC, I believe.
                  This is my personal feelings, the league should force SCSU hand and tell them bring back football or look else-where for a conference. I do not believe a university that size can't find room in it's budget for football, if not find a way to cut fat from the athletic dept. Huskies were a highly competitive program with a proud winning tradition. Bring back football SCSU.
                  Just plain old cut SCSU and UMC Immediately

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                  • A lot of you are hitting the nail on the head. Crookston is a problem, the only reason they're in now is because the other schools want an easy W on the schedule. You can't build a D2 program in a small town in the shadow of Grand Forks and Fargo. They really should go to either the UMAC or even NAIA with the North Star Schools. Maybe if Jamestown is wanting to come up, they'll want a replacement to play the Mayvilles and Valley City States of the north.

                    And yes, St. Cloud needs to get football back, I'm not sure trying to strong hand them out of the NSIC is the answer though, especially when they have a lot of other programs that the NSIC opponents count on.

                    Scheduling partners? It's not impossible with out a tried and true "travel partner." Basketball: we could move to more Thursday/Saturday matchups, one home and one away. Or one team gets a one-game weekend once a season as a sort of "bye week" rest in the grind.

                    Going to 14 teams gives the potential of dropping the division format, which seems to be more and more popular in college sports these days For quite awhile the trend has been towards conference expansion. Are we going to start thinking less is more now?

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                    • Originally posted by Dan Brookens View Post
                      A lot of you are hitting the nail on the head. Crookston is a problem, the only reason they're in now is because the other schools want an easy W on the schedule. You can't build a D2 program in a small town in the shadow of Grand Forks and Fargo. They really should go to either the UMAC or even NAIA with the North Star Schools. Maybe if Jamestown is wanting to come up, they'll want a replacement to play the Mayvilles and Valley City States of the north.

                      And yes, St. Cloud needs to get football back, I'm not sure trying to strong hand them out of the NSIC is the answer though, especially when they have a lot of other programs that the NSIC opponents count on.

                      Scheduling partners? It's not impossible with out a tried and true "travel partner." Basketball: we could move to more Thursday/Saturday matchups, one home and one away. Or one team gets a one-game weekend once a season as a sort of "bye week" rest in the grind.

                      Going to 14 teams gives the potential of dropping the division format, which seems to be more and more popular in college sports these days For quite awhile the trend has been towards conference expansion. Are we going to start thinking less is more now?
                      Wayne, NE is a smaller town by 1600 than Crookston and every college football program in NE. is in the shadow of the Cornhuskers despite their 20 years of ineptitude. I've always liked the moxie of Wayne St, the only school in the league without university attached to their name. They have gradually upgraded athletic facilities and are more then relevant in the NSIC. Maybe UMC should look to them for inspiration.

                      On a side note, I see UMC enrollment had fallen to 1489 by 2022, while WSC is at 4202. Without checking, I'm thinking Crookston has the 2nd lowest enrollment in the NSIC.

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                      • Originally posted by vikingfaithful View Post

                        Wayne, NE is a smaller town by 1600 than Crookston and every college football program in NE. is in the shadow of the Cornhuskers despite their 20 years of ineptitude. I've always liked the moxie of Wayne St, the only school in the league without university attached to their name. They have gradually upgraded athletic facilities and are more then relevant in the NSIC. Maybe UMC should look to them for inspiration.

                        On a side note, I see UMC enrollment had fallen to 1489 by 2022, while WSC is at 4202. Without checking, I'm thinking Crookston has the 2nd lowest enrollment in the NSIC.
                        As someone who lived in the Crookston region (including in HS and was in the process of choosing a college), Dan completely hit the nail on the head in terms of Crookston living in the shadow of other programs. In my class of 50ish, I don't think a single person picked UMC. UND was the hot campus for my class, with BSU probably in second along with NDSU and MSUM. Add to that, the northwest region of Minnesota is arguably the weakest in the state for most boys sports at the high school level, and it's not an easy place to draw metro talent either. It just is an extremely difficult place to build any sort of local base for success.

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                        • Wayne has the benefit of being one of only three Division II schools in Nebraska, which are quite spread out. They can recruit Omaha and Lincoln for the players that aren't Big Ten caliber. They have a much more comprehensive university than Crookston, which specializes in agriculture. So it's a bit of an apples and oranges comparison.

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                          • Originally posted by Dan Brookens View Post
                            Wayne has the benefit of being one of only three Division II schools in Nebraska, which are quite spread out. They can recruit Omaha and Lincoln for the players that aren't Big Ten caliber. They have a much more comprehensive university than Crookston, which specializes in agriculture. So it's a bit of an apples and oranges comparison.
                            I understand your thinking, but SDSU, USD, AU, USF, MSU, NWMSU, MWSU and Washburn all recruit Nebraska as well. I live in NE. and follow recruiting. Also KS and KSU have players from here. Augie has 14 Nebraskans on their roster. Yes it's easier to recruit to WSC than UMC.

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                            • Originally posted by FB Player Coach & Fan View Post

                              AT SOME POINT, this scheduling issue which is linked to a conference footprint issue may become too much of a headache. Might they look at blowing up the NSIC ( in its current configuration) and other D2 Dakota and Nebraska schools and reconfigure these schools into multiple conferences to help alleviate scheduling and travel issues. One big move; instead of trying to patch work the current configuration. Just a thought????????
                              Okay, I'll bite...

                              North Dakota D2 Schools: Mary, Minot State (both NSIC)
                              South Dakota D2 Schools: Augustana (NSIC), Black Hills State (RMAC), Northern State (NSIC), Sioux Falls (NSIC), South Dakota Mines (RMAC)
                              Nebraska D2 Schools: Chardon State (RMAC), Nebraska-Kearney (MIAA), Wayne State (NSIC)

                              For those scoring at home, that's ten schools for such ND/SD/NE-centered conference. Perhaps when I have more time this weekend, I'll try to put together a mileage chart of those 10 schools to see if the numbers add up (unless someone else has less of a life than I do ... lol).

                              Let's presume that the above ten schools do form their own conference. Here's what the NSIC, RMAC and MIAA would look like post-departures:

                              NSIC (All Minnesota Schools): Bemidji State, Concordia St Paul, Minnesota-Duluth, MSU Mankato, MSU Moorhead, Southwest Minnesota and Winona State for football (seven schools), plus non-football members Minnesota-Crookston and St Cloud State (nine total); this reflects the upcoming departure of Upper Iowa to the GLVC
                              RMAC: Adams State, Colorado Mesa, Colorado Mines, Colorado State-Pueblo, Fort Lewis, New Mexico Highlands and Western Colorado for football (seven schools), plus non-football members Colorado Christian, Metro State/Denver, Regis, UC-Colorado Springs and Westminster (12 total schools)
                              MIAA: Central Missouri, Central Oklahoma, Emporia State, Fort Hays State, Missouri Southern, Missouri Western, Northeastern (Okla.) State, Northwest Missouri, Pittsburg State and Washburn (10 football schools), plus non-football members Newman and Rogers State (Okla.) (12 total schools); this reflects Lincoln (Mo.) departing for the GLVC

                              Keep in mind that it Nebraska-Kearney left the RMAC to join the MIAA in 2012. Whether Kearney wants to even consider leaving the seemingly more prominent MIAA (no disrespect to the NSIC) for a North Dakota/South Dakota/Nebraska-based conference after the football program finally started getting it together starting in 2018 after being a near doormat (including a 17 game losing streak from 2014 through the first part of 2015) is open to debate.

                              Also, any "breakaway" conference would very likely put both the NSIC and RMAC in the same boat as the GLIAC, which is down to 10 schools, including seven football schools (Davenport, Ferris, Grand Valley, Michigan Tech, Northern Michigan, Saginaw Valley and Wayne State/Detroit) and three non-football schools (Lake Superior State, Purdue Northwest and Wisconsin-Parkside); Roosevelt University, an NAIA school in Chicago which sponsors football, will join the GLIAC starting next season. This scenario would hurt the NSIC more, since you're talking about going from 15 schools to 9 schools (13-to-7 for football); at least the RMAC has more "non-football" schools to help mitigate any defections.

                              In theory, a Dakotas/Nebraska based conference seems like a good idea, but I can't help but wonder if the travel logistics, not to mention interest from the affected schools, would doom the idea from the start.
                              Cal U (Pa.) Class of 2014

                              Comment


                              • What benefit does UMC get by staying in the NSIC? Realistically speaking, it's not heightening their profile as far as I can tell. They're getting walloped in pretty much every sport with no chance to compete...

                                They'd make a great program for the student-athlete, aka D3, but choose to stay in D2, so there must be some perceived benefit.

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