Should Jamestown be accepted into the NSIC?

[Mandan]

Valley City and Mayville State are really swinging in the breeze right now. If they stay NAIA, they'll have to go out to western Montana frequently to find conference games. D3 UMAC seems like a better fit for them at first glance.

For the record, here is the Eastern division of the Frontier for football. Not sure how they are dividing home and away rotation, but with 3 Montana schools I assume they'd have one year when they travel once to Montana for their conference/division game, and twice the other year. I don't think I'd call that frequent.

Dakota State
Dickinson State
Mayville State
Montana State Northern
Montana Tech
Rocky Mountain College
Valley City State

Valley City in 2025 has a trip to Eastern Oregon early in the year as a non-division game, then the division game trips to Northern and Montana Tech. The other two road games are against the DSUs.

Other sports are better, because the East division is all Dakota/Nebraska schools, with Belleview and Bismarck State joining the other Dakota schools.

[SW_Mustang]

I think we're confused on terms here - so to end this discussion once and for all (because it's quite ridiculous to be talking about this on a college athletics board):

-A student club is an organization operated by students and is a separate entity from the university largely responsible for funding themselves.
-A varsity program is owned/operated/funded by the university.

Now - yes, just because a school is ACHA doesn't automatically mean they are club (Minot comes to mind, I believe). It's hard to tell with UMC - they claim to be club but it's promoted like varsity. Colleges promote clubs all the time despite not actually owning them. All we have to go on is coach's bio where they claim to be club (and therefore not varsity). Club hockey is a popular alternative because schools can host a hockey team without actually taking on much risk - there's no Title IX requirements because the school isn't paying for it.

So no - by definition, UMC does not have a hockey program (if the coach's bio is correct). There is a student club on campus that plays hockey, but the school itself does not have hockey. I don't understand what scholarships and recruiting have to do with anything. SMSU's Accounting Club recruits and used to give out scholarships (and maybe still does) too.

Do we need three pages to discuss intramurals now too, or do we got it? lol

[SW_Mustang]

That's my point. And now I will concede that you have a point as well.

From the coach's bio:
The Minnesota Crookston hockey program is a competitive travel club hockey program competing in the ACHA, and will be run out of the Golden Eagle athletics department.

I guess I don't understand the point you are trying to make. It's either varsity or it's not, and by UMC's own admission, it's not - according to that blurb.

Is it the bit about it being run through the AD? Would you be surprised to know that SMSU's (on-paper) ACHA team is/was/will be run through the athletic department as well? They handled recruiting and the head coach (when we had one) was on the athletic department payroll too - yet it was still a student organization.

The bit I'm curious about is how Johnson's position was created by UMC. I have a theory, but I don't know enough about Title 9/accounting/state policies to know for sure, and it's not really worth taking the time to research. (Not a knock against coach - dude has a resume that is wildly impressive).

[Stanger86]

That being said, for the record - SMSU Wheelchair Basketball is not a club sport. It's a varsity sport. The HC is on the same payroll as Bigler and Underwood. It's one of two varsity wheelchair basketball programs in the country, the other being Whitewater. It's fully sponsored and funded through the university and is not a student organization.

That's my point. And now I will concede that you have a point as well.

From the coach's bio:
The Minnesota Crookston hockey program is a competitive travel club hockey program competing in the ACHA, and will be run out of the Golden Eagle athletics department.

[SW_Mustang]

Yeah I don't consider that "club" hockey. They recruit, offer scholarships, etc. It'd be like trying to argue that SMSU doesn't offer wheelchair basketball.

Ha, okay lol. I'll concede that you can absolutely consider them whatever you want too. That's definitely not worth arguing over.

That being said, for the record - SMSU Wheelchair Basketball is not a club sport. It's a varsity sport. The HC is on the same payroll as Bigler and Underwood. It's one of two varsity wheelchair basketball programs in the country, the other being Whitewater. It's fully sponsored and funded through the university and is not a student organization.

[Purple Mav Man]

This is a silly discussion to have when I absolutely specified: "didn't even have a varsity team to put on the ice."

There's a student club on campus that plays hockey - just like there is at most schools, but the school itself doesn't have hockey. I guess most wouldn't confuse the two, so I'll chalk it up to people just enjoying a good argument. I'm all for it.

Now that being said - nothing I said is a knock against the athletes. Those guys go insanely hard, and are absolutely talented in their own right. It's also really cool that the university is giving them visibility with a webpage. Most schools wouldn't do that.

You’re right.

There you go… that outta help today 🙂

[SW_Mustang]

Let’s not jinx the Jimmies with all this Crookston talk

The Jimothies delivered a biblical mollywhopping of sorts to Valley City State last week. 33-0.

I checked and 45 is the record though. Shucks.

[Stanger86]

Yeah I don't consider that "club" hockey. They recruit, offer scholarships, etc. It'd be like trying to argue that SMSU doesn't offer wheelchair basketball.

[SW_Mustang]

Are you just saying no NCAA hockey? Because they absolutely still have hockey.

This season’s schedule: https://goldeneaglesports.com/sports/mih/schedule

This is a silly discussion to have when I absolutely specified: "didn't even have a varsity team to put on the ice."

There's a student club on campus that plays hockey - just like there is at most schools, but the school itself doesn't have hockey. I guess most wouldn't confuse the two, so I'll chalk it up to people just enjoying a good argument. I'm all for it.

Now that being said - nothing I said is a knock against the athletes. Those guys go insanely hard, and are absolutely talented in their own right. It's also really cool that the university is giving them visibility with a webpage. Most schools wouldn't do that.

[Millsy]

Crookston still has Club Hockey (ACHA D-II, I believe) and they still use the Crookston Sports Center.

I am going off on a tangent here, I guess..... Club Hockey is going to become a lot stronger now with the ability of CHL (Major Juniors) players to play NCAA hockey. You are going to see a trickle down effect happen in recruiting, D-III is going to get stronger as there are going to be some higher level Junior players from the NAHL and Canadian leagues not making D-I rosters. In turn, you are going to see players that would have made D-III rosters in the past trickle down to ACHA teams. Some of the bigger ACHA D-I teams are fully funded, making them a pretty nice option for players. Minot and UMary have some pretty good programs, not sure on their funding, but they always seem to be up there in the National Club Rankings.

[Purple Mav Man]

Nope. They dropped hockey in 2009 and never reinstated.

It was a very bizarre program. The NCAA was cool with them playing in the MCHA so long as they didn't offer athletic scholarships. The trade off was they were barred from playing in the NCAA Tournament.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the MCHA wanted an autobid at some point and the NCAA requires all members to be DIII, which UMC obviously isn't - so that essentially forced UMC to shut down. I'm sure money played into it too, but from my understanding they were kinda forced out.

The only real path for UMC to get hockey again is for them to join the UMAC, so they could then join the NCHA (because there's zero chance the MIAC wants them).

A pipedream of mine is for the NSIC to sponsor hockey at the conference level, so that could be another way UMC gets varsity hockey again, but... despite the exclusively positive feedback I've gotten, it'll never happen.

Are you just saying no NCAA hockey? Because they absolutely still have hockey.

This season’s schedule: https://goldeneaglesports.com/sports/mih/schedule

[oldyellaHer69]

**Also, another bizarre thing - but the UWs decided to leave the NCHA to play for their primary WIAC conference, so the MCHA and the NCHA essentially merged. The MCHA kicked Crookston out and almost immediately ceased to exist themselves. Ouch.

Then, of course, NCHA Northland folded - which is convenient for Beloit College who announced they were starting hockey around the same time, and just hosted the entire Northland team on campus. That's one way to save recruiting costs.

Hockey drama. It never ends!

Let’s not jinx the Jimmies with all this Crookston talk

[SW_Mustang]

**Also, another bizarre thing - but the UWs decided to leave the NCHA to play for their primary WIAC conference, so the MCHA and the NCHA essentially merged. The MCHA kicked Crookston out and almost immediately ceased to exist themselves. Ouch.

Then, of course, NCHA Northland folded - which is convenient for Beloit College who announced they were starting hockey around the same time, and just hosted the entire Northland team on campus. That's one way to save recruiting costs.

Hockey drama. It never ends!

[SW_Mustang]

I guess I don't follow, because they still have hockey.

Nope. They dropped hockey in 2009 and never reinstated.

It was a very bizarre program. The NCAA was cool with them playing in the MCHA so long as they didn't offer athletic scholarships. The trade off was they were barred from playing in the NCAA Tournament.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the MCHA wanted an autobid at some point and the NCAA requires all members to be DIII, which UMC obviously isn't - so that essentially forced UMC to shut down. I'm sure money played into it too, but from my understanding they were kinda forced out.

The only real path for UMC to get hockey again is for them to join the UMAC, so they could then join the NCHA (because there's zero chance the MIAC wants them).

A pipedream of mine is for the NSIC to sponsor hockey at the conference level, so that could be another way UMC gets varsity hockey again, but... despite the exclusively positive feedback I've gotten, it'll never happen.

[Stanger86]

One random tidbit about UMC that I know is that they actually contributed a fair amount of money to build the hockey arena in town (and signed a five year lease).

In a move that would make even SCSU blush, they dropped hockey before the arena was even completed - so they were on the hook for all that money and didn't even have a varsity team to put on the ice.

I guess I don't follow, because they still have hockey.