Should Jamestown be accepted into the NSIC?

[Stanger86]

Crookston being a 4 year institution was a complete political play. This is the unfortunate result. Why wouldn’t a remote satellite type campus work when it’s only 25 miles from UND in Grand Forks? Only 75 miles from NDSU in Fargo (and MSU-Moorhead). And under 90 miles to Bemidji?

While I completely understand those are different systems than UofM, Crookston was doomed from the start.

It has almost zero traction in the region. Especially in athletics. I think it has started to get better in the last 10 or so years, but it is still just so far behind.

There are times when I want to give them the benefit of a doubt, since they are still relatively new as a four-year operation. I do think that's something that we as fans don't think about sometimes. Heck, SMSU is a youngish school itself....its earliest alums are just now getting to where they are passing away and will be leaving money for the school and for athletics specifically. The Crookston campus has been open roughly as long as Southwest, but only as a four-year since 1993.

I know it's not a high bar, but I do think Jamestown comes in as at minimum a clear step or two above Crookston overall. Facilities alone earn them that status, as well as being a more accessible campus. The difference in drive times is relatively inconsequential, even though one's not technically replacing the other. UMD and BSU are the only ones with more than 15-30 minutes added to their drive times.

I know people are worried about enrollment here and scholarships there. My thought is that although sports are likely to be cut, that money in athletics doesn't just vanish. The money that sport was using for travel or scholarships or whatever still belongs to the university. It will get reallocated to other sports, improving the scholarships that those programs can offer.

Along with that, I think it's important to note that these program cuts would likely be sports that are not NSIC-sponsored. In terms of NSIC sports, Jamestown has 17 of the 18 sponsored sports....only one missing is women's tennis. Missing sports is not uncommon, in fact only 4 schools sponsor all 18 sports (Mankato, Augie, Sioux Falls, UMary). I suspect they'll hold on to hockey for now. Where you might see cuts are men's volleyball, men's soccer, women's wrestling.

[SW_Mustang]

Along with that, I think it's important to note that these program cuts would likely be sports that are not NSIC-sponsored. In terms of NSIC sports, Jamestown has 17 of the 18 sponsored sports....only one missing is women's tennis. Missing sports is not uncommon, in fact only 4 schools sponsor all 18 sports (Mankato, Augie, Sioux Falls, UMary). I suspect they'll hold on to hockey for now. Where you might see cuts are men's volleyball, men's soccer, women's wrestling.

Hockey will be fine. If the DI team is varsity (I can't tell), the school could pull support - but then they'd have the option to exist as non-varsity. They also have a DII team which is already non-varsity already, so the likelihood of both dropping due to the move is highly unlikely.

SMSU has a hockey team on the shelf that we need to get up-and-running. Just one of those things we/I haven't gotten around to yet.

[SW_Mustang]

Crookston being a 4 year institution was a complete political play. This is the unfortunate result. Why wouldn’t a remote satellite type campus work when it’s only 25 miles from UND in Grand Forks? Only 75 miles from NDSU in Fargo (and MSU-Moorhead). And under 90 miles to Bemidji?

While I completely understand those are different systems than UofM, Crookston was doomed from the start.

Not only that, but one could go to Northland or M State and get two years for half the cost of going to UMC and get the same education - and likely have a more authentic "college experience" in doing so.

And looking at the degrees UMC provides - there's some ag, but there's also a random hodgepodge of things that aren't. It looks like the emphasis is largely on online programs too. They just have no academic focus or direction. To be fair, a lot of schools don't, but a lot of those schools also don't exist on the fringe like UMC clearly does.

I hate playing God with colleges because they likely have some alumni contingent that adores the place, and it's always a drain on a local economy to lose a school - but UMC just... shouldn't be there in their current capacity.

[Purple Mav Man]

I know people are worried about enrollment here and scholarships there. My thought is that although sports are likely to be cut, that money in athletics doesn't just vanish. The money that sport was using for travel or scholarships or whatever still belongs to the university. It will get reallocated to other sports, improving the scholarships that those programs can offer.

To the Crookston part of your post, agree. I think most of us try to give them the benefit of the doubt. They’re the lovable losers we all cheer for when they have ANY type of success. But…they just don’t belong as a 4-year. Let alone in the conference.

The enrollment issue is a big worry. That money you mention will not belong to the school if they have enrollment reduction because that’s where the money is coming from. Thats what happens when 50-60% of your enrollment is made up of athletes. Cut roster spots, cut sports = cut school revenue. So that is my concern, not their ability to sustain scholarships, or anything to do with scholarships. Because without those athletes to subsidize costs, that money does just go away.

I am also in no way saying Jamestown is in any danger, they appear to have plenty of money, but the blueprint for schools closing lately has been very athlete heavy enrollment.

[Stanger86]

Random side note (which is why I'm putting it here), but I really don't like how Twitter/X removed the ability to see other peoples' likes for purely selfish reasons. That was one of my greatest tools for tracking recruiting and commitments. This past cycle, I had SMSU's entire class minus I think only one or two people.

[MrMustang]

A lot of people look at Mankato and think that because they are the "flagship" they they don't have the problems the rest of MnSCU has. Everyone is going through it.

Heck, I bet the UofM's not in the Twin Cities are dealing with it too. The state just doesn't care. I'd argue the constituency doesn't either.

not much money for colleges with hundreds of millions of dollars of fraud going on to launder money to politicians

[MrMustang]

Not out of bounds, just misrepresenting. There are a few supporters on here who want D1. There are more that don’t.

Most of the NSIC should feel they don’t belong with Crookston and the like, frankly. Crookston isn’t a D2 school/program by any stretch, except for affiliation.

SMSU supporters on the board want to be with smaller, more ‘like-minded’ schools. And you all have gone on and on about lack of scholarship money and COVID losses. Maybe SMSU should move to D3? Makes more sense than MSU moving up :)

we compete just fine with Mankato except for football - - football is the real haves and have nots D1 and D2 -- otherwise were fine -- The SMSU - Kato basketbal games last year were very good both mens and womens -- we're fine there. Volleyball we're better -- but football is a challenge -- much of that is on the SMSU administration which hasn't tried to be bog at football since Danahar -- at least he had a vision.

[MrMustang]

This has been about more than football since forever. Not sure why you keep beating that point into the ground. That’s why their entire athletic program has been mentioned, their enrollment being dependent on sports that’ll likely be cut, etc and not just their football team. It’s been discussed at length, actually. So…we know it’s about more than football. If Jamestown were a football only member, so be it.

Just because Jamestown decided they wanted to be D2 didn’t mean the NSIC had to cater to their desperation. Yeah, yeah, I know. You think it makes the conference stronger by adding a footprint school. The NSIC didn’t need Jamestown, it was the other way. They could have easily waited. If Jamestown wanted D2 so bad, they would have also waited. We’ll likely disagree that Jamestown brings nothing but an even number. Which is a very weak argument to add them. But it’s done and the conference as a whole, got weaker. In MORE THAN FOOTBALL. Because the conference is about athletics, not school prerogatives, no matter what the message they may try to push.

That last part is silly. I am not criticizing SMSU fans at all. I’m encouraging you to be D3 with other schools that can’t commit athletically, since you guys constantly mention your lack of scholarships. If that’s what they want, go get it. If you want mediocre, go get it. Location is whatever, you’re the one that is making that a point. Not me. You’ve repeatedly mentioned their strength of addition is they are simply in the footprint. That is a convenience, not a strength. Love that we always come back to the NCC 4 being added. We know the NCC dissolved and left those schools searching. The NSIC didn’t have to take them in either, and most of us fans of those schools feel fortunate they did. But good god, your argument falls apart every time when you compare Jamestown to those four, competitively. But you guys keep going back to it…Not even close to the same value add.

I’m sure this goes both ways, but I find it odd how people beat the drum for Jamestown. I guess it would make more sense to me if someone were to actually provide a reason other than even number/in the footprint.

how quickly you forget you were SMSU in the NCC

[MrMustang]

Crookston being a 4 year institution was a complete political play. This is the unfortunate result. Why wouldn’t a remote satellite type campus work when it’s only 25 miles from UND in Grand Forks? Only 75 miles from NDSU in Fargo (and MSU-Moorhead). And under 90 miles to Bemidji?

While I completely understand those are different systems than UofM, Crookston was doomed from the start.

correct

[Stanger86]

how quickly you forget you were SMSU in the NCC

Exactly.

[Stanger86]

Last winning record in the NCC
MSU 1994
Augie 2000
SCSU 2004
UMD 2005

[Purple Mav Man]

Last winning record in the NCC
MSU 1994
Augie 2000
SCSU 2004
UMD 2005

Isn’t this about more than football?

[Purple Mav Man]

how quickly you forget you were SMSU in the NCC

Haha. Not at all. I didn’t claim the Mavs were good in the NCC. But those four schools being added to the NSIC were a much stronger move than a small, athlete heavy school transitioning to D2.

But I do think it’s funny that you and other SMSU peeps use your own school as an insult.

[Stanger86]

Isn’t this about more than football?

Poor Augustana....last winning record in MBB was 1989

[vikingfaithful]

Poor Augustana....last winning record in MBB was 1989

All those lean MBB years I faithfully attended. I'm thankful to the Northern Sun for taking the 4 NCC refuges in. It's been a good union for the league as those 4 schools added 10 or more national championships, greatly enhancing the league stature in D2. The NSIC has seen scholarship increases, new facilities and the addition of USF.

As for UJ, it's hard to be optimistic about their prospects to be anything other than doormats in the league, North Dakota produces fine athletes per capita, but the limited amount is shared by 4 schools. MSUM has 35 ND young men on their FB roster. Hopefully I'm wrong about the Jimmies as they sure seem to be excited about being D2.