Should Jamestown be accepted into the NSIC?

[Purple Mav Man]

I know NDSU beat Iowa, K-State and Minnesota. I can't think of any notable game SDSU won - they got ripped hard last year by Oklahoma State, and barely scraped by a battered Augustana.

Why do you completely ignore the national championships NDSU and SDSU won? I know you don’t think FCS is real football, or real division I. But it is. Dismissing those accomplishments completely diminishes your point.

[Stanger86]

The only reason it won't happen is because you're losing an auto bid. The NCAA basketball tournament is worth too much money to the MVFC and Summit really that they both would refuse to give up their auto bids.

Otherwise I'm sure it would have been done a long time ago. They may end up doing something like what the ASUN and WAC are doing next year.

The ASUN and WAC formed a consortium, with the WAC rebranding to the UAC for all sports next year as opposed to the current UAC which is football only made up of WAC and ASUN schools.

I'm 2026 the ASUN will send it's football playing schools to the WAC/UAC, so now there are 16 teams competing for 2 Conference Auto bids as opposed to 1.

They'll share an administrative team, but operate as separate conferences making for easy Non-Con scheduling and lower expenses.

Excellent point on the auto-bid. The dream ends.

[Stanger86]

The NSIC is made up of relatively small regional state schools with the exception of Jamestown, Mary, USF, and Augustana - and we can agree that Jamestown doesn't belong, and Mary would be better served elsewhere too.

It's not a stretch of the imagination to assume that many small conferences do the same. MIAC, WIAC, GPAC - many others.

I would agree that conferences had these commonalities in the very beginning. At the start, the NSIC was a group of Minnesota teachers colleges. But that was almost 100 years ago. Times change. Conferences change. Conferences can't survive with just 6 schools like it had in the beginning.

[Purple Mav Man]

Because MSU can't pay for professors.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2025/1...-tenure-future

Or academics

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2025/1...-tenure-future

I know you'll say that they're just cutting bloat and I disagree - but that second article was the one that affected me personally. I had to negotiate a teachout deal with MSU to make sure I got my degree because the major I was in was cut. I'm not happy about it, but at least I got the opportunity.

Cutting underperforming programs and programs no longer in demand is absolutely not “can’t pay for professors”.

And you also admitted his was more of a personal thing for you. Why spend unnecessary money? Thats bad business.

[njmav1]

Because MSU can't pay for professors.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2025/1...-tenure-future

Or academics

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2025/1...-tenure-future

I know you'll say that they're just cutting bloat and I disagree - but that second article was the one that affected me personally. I had to negotiate a teachout deal with MSU to make sure I got my degree because the major I was in was cut. I'm not happy about it, but at least I got the opportunity.

Not sure what SMSU has to do with this - but why didn't MSU do the same? Punching down on a smaller school for accomplishing what MSU couldn't 20 years ago is weird. Mavs have money but can't afford the gas to get to St. Paul?

Getting a bunch of rich people to pay for my stuff doesn't mean I have a lot of money.

I know NDSU beat Iowa, K-State and Minnesota. I can't think of any notable game SDSU won - they got ripped hard last year by Oklahoma State, and barely scraped by a battered Augustana.

I know about those cuts. Most of that is redeploying resources to programs in demand and unfortunately cutting those that are not. Regardless of whether that constitutes the university being in a "financial pinch" isn't the point. You suggested that having to raise privately to fund a $60 million athletic facility was due to that "financial pinch." My point is that in today's environment no public university is likely to get public funding for something like that. SMSU got public funding for their stadium in a different time when that was possible. That was simply drawing a comparison between the two. Getting a bunch of rich people that pay for new athletic facilities means the government ain't paying for it. Even schools with more money than 90% of countries in the world get other rich people to pay for their stuff.

[SW_Mustang]

Why do you completely ignore the national championships NDSU and SDSU won? I know you don’t think FCS is real football, or real division I. But it is. Dismissing those accomplishments completely diminishes your point.

When did I say it's not "real football?" What else would it be lol, rugby? Let's be serious here.

NDSU wants to be judged on the basis that they can beat ranked FBS teams. They've built their entire brand on it. They know the greater football world doesn't care if they beat the #2 ranked FCS team every week. Am I not supposed to judge them on that scale? Am I supposed to assume SDSU doesn't want the same thing?

I'm judging them as DI programs - which they are. Maybe the solution here is to create 14 more football divisions so everyone can win a trophy.

[Purple Mav Man]

When did I say it's not "real football?" What else would it be lol, rugby? Let's be serious here.

NDSU wants to be judged on the basis that they can beat ranked FBS teams. They've built their entire brand on it. They know the greater football world doesn't care if they beat the #2 ranked FCS team every week. Am I not supposed to judge them on that scale? Am I supposed to assume SDSU doesn't want the same thing?

I'm judging them as DI programs - which they are. Maybe the solution here is to create 14 more football divisions so everyone can win a trophy.

I am serious. Pretty much anytime you bring up these programs. Or by completely disregarding their championships. Or did you simply not know they won them? I suspect you did and once again chose to not recognize it because it doesn’t fit your vision of D1.

You can judge them however you want. You can also be wrong about it. Since they are FCS level for football, that’s how I judge them. Just as they are, not on what your perception of them wanting to be.

Yup, why not add 14 more? What a ridiculous comment. It’s ok to not like these schools, but your arguments are weak and ridiculous. Seriously.

[SW_Mustang]

I know about those cuts. Most of that is redeploying resources to programs in demand and unfortunately cutting those that are not. Regardless of whether that constitutes the university being in a "financial pinch" isn't the point. You suggested that having to raise privately to fund a $60 million athletic facility was due to that "financial pinch." My point is that in today's environment no public university is likely to get public funding for something like that. SMSU got public funding for their stadium in a different time when that was possible. That was simply drawing a comparison between the two. Getting a bunch of rich people that pay for new athletic facilities means the government ain't paying for it. Even schools with more money than 90% of countries in the world get other rich people to pay for their stuff.

Let's back up here - things are getting lost in message board translation.

First - I don't have a problem with MSU raising funds to build a stadium. I actually plan to donate. I don't have any problem with any institution raising funds to pay for anything they want to use the money for.

Second - two things can be true at once. I can be broke and a rich guy can buy me a nice car - it doesn't make me "not broke." I don't think MSU is "broke," but I don't think they're exactly rolling in it either - and cuts are an indication of that. Like I said - we're going to disagree on that part, and that's okay.

Third - I only posted that comment because I knew someone was going to say "but the stadium." It wasn't any deeper than that. It was separating the financial position of the school with the funding of the stadium.

Fourth - I also don't have a problem with how SMSU funded their stadium. It was done through the proper channels, and if MSU had the opportunity to use state funds for a stadium we both know they'd do it too, so they have no moral high ground in that regard. SMSU is also funding projects privately too - and is using revenue from renting out one of the campus buildings.

It's a discussion for another board - but I'll just say that investing in community assets for outstate Minnesota is a far better use of public funds than a lot of the junk that goes on in St. Paul.

[laker]

I know about those cuts. Most of that is redeploying resources to programs in demand and unfortunately cutting those that are not. Regardless of whether that constitutes the university being in a "financial pinch" isn't the point. You suggested that having to raise privately to fund a $60 million athletic facility was due to that "financial pinch." My point is that in today's environment no public university is likely to get public funding for something like that. SMSU got public funding for their stadium in a different time when that was possible. That was simply drawing a comparison between the two. Getting a bunch of rich people that pay for new athletic facilities means the government ain't paying for it. Even schools with more money than 90% of countries in the world get other rich people to pay for their stuff.

I asked about those cuts at the last home game. I was told that they are actually hiring something like 32 new instructors. Also that some of these programs have very few enrollees, not enough to keep them going.

[SW_Mustang]

I am serious. Pretty much anytime you bring up these programs. Or by completely disregarding their championships. Or did you simply not know they won them? I suspect you did and once again chose to not recognize it because it doesn’t fit your vision of D1.

You can judge them however you want. You can also be wrong about it. Since they are FCS level for football, that’s how I judge them. Just as they are, not on what your perception of them wanting to be.

Yup, why not add 14 more? What a ridiculous comment. It’s ok to not like these schools, but your arguments are weak and ridiculous. Seriously.

Yeesh - didn't realize it was such a sensitive subject.

Okay - answer me this. You think it's absolutely incomprehensible that I want DI to have one trophy like literally every other sport in every other facet of society. But then you scoffed at my obviously sarcastic comment to add an additional fourteen trophies to DI football. Where is your line on how many are acceptable and how many aren't, and why?

You're right - NDSU doesn't want to be judged by the FBS teams they beat. It's completely irrelevant to their brand. Silly me lol. App State beating Michigan? Nah, just another day at the office.

Good lord.

[njmav1]

Let's back up here - things are getting lost in message board translation.

First - I don't have a problem with MSU raising funds to build a stadium. I actually plan to donate. I don't have any problem with any institution raising funds to pay for anything they want to use the money for.

Second - two things can be true at once. I can be broke and a rich guy can buy me a nice car - it doesn't make me "not broke." I don't think MSU is "broke," but I don't think they're exactly rolling in it either - and cuts are an indication of that. Like I said - we're going to disagree on that part, and that's okay.

Third - I only posted that comment because I knew someone was going to say "but the stadium." It wasn't any deeper than that. It was separating the financial position of the school with the funding of the stadium. It's not that deep.

Fourth - I also don't have a problem with how SMSU funded their stadium. It was done through the proper channels, and if MSU had the opportunity to use state funds for a stadium we both know they'd do it too, so they have no moral high ground in that regard. SMSU is also funding projects privately too - and is using revenue from renting out one of the campus buildings.

It's a discussion for another board - but I'll just say that investing in community assets for outstate Minnesota is a far better use of public funds than a lot of the junk that goes on in St. Paul.

I don't have any problem with how SMSU got the funds for their stadium. Good for them. Maybe if MSU had pushed for replacing Blakeslee two or three decades earlier the state of Minnesota might have kicked in some. That's not happening today. Heck getting money from the state to replace Armstrong is going to be tough.

MSU going the private route to fund 100% of the new stadium is what's needed in the reality of today's environment. The money isn't going to come from St Paul. It has nothing to do with their financial situation.

[SW_Mustang]

I asked about those cuts at the last home game. I was told that they are actually hiring something like 32 new instructors. Also that some of these programs have very few enrollees, not enough to keep them going.

It's absolutely a strategic restructuring - but a lot of these programs are things that bigger schools with more money offer too, and I'd have to imagine MSU wanted to continue to offer them as well.

Just my opinion.

[njmav1]

Yeesh - didn't realize it was such a sensitive subject.

Okay - answer me this. You think it's absolutely incomprehensible that I want DI to have one trophy like literally every other sport in every other facet of society. But then you scoffed at my obviously sarcastic comment to add an additional fourteen trophies to DI football. Where is your line on how many are acceptable and how many aren't, and why?

You're right - NDSU doesn't want to be judged by the FBS teams they beat. It's completely irrelevant to their brand. Silly me lol. App State beating Michigan? Nah, just another day at the office.

Good lord.

You really think NDSU wants to be judged by their victories over FBS teams and not the 10 national championships in the last 14 years?

[SW_Mustang]

I don't have any problem with how SMSU got the funds for their stadium. Good for them. Maybe if MSU had pushed for replacing Blakeslee two or three decades earlier the state of Minnesota might have kicked in some. That's not happening today. Heck getting money from the state to replace Armstrong is going to be tough.

MSU going the private route to fund 100% of the new stadium is what's needed in the reality of today's environment. The money isn't going to come from St Paul. It has nothing to do with their financial situation.

Hypothetically - What will MSU do if they can't get the money from the state to replace Armstrong Hall? Can they fund it's replacement on their own? If they can't...

I don't disagree with anything you've said here. The funding of the stadium and the financial position of the school are two different things because they're two different pots of money, and that's why I distinguished the two. Our disagreement seems to be on the financial position of the school, which is absolutely okay.

[SW_Mustang]

You really think NDSU wants to be judged by their victories over FBS teams and not the 10 national championships in the last 14 years?

NDSU vs. Colorado averaged 4.76 million viewers and was played in front of 49,000 people.

NDSU vs. Montana State averaged 2.4 million viewers and was played in front of 18,000 people.

The Bison want recognition any way they can get it. For a school hellbent on building a national brand, I'd be hard pressed to believe that the trophy helps them more than P4 games and NFL Draft Picks.

Fact is - NDSU brings far more prestige to the FCS title than the FCS title brings to NDSU.

And I know - Colorado, Deion, Hunter, Shadeur - that game isn't drawing 4.76 if they're playing Indiana State. People wanted to see what was going to happen because NDSU had a legitimate shot.