Should Jamestown be accepted into the NSIC?

[SW_Mustang]

I must be pretty bored - here's a thread update for the stats nerds.

This is the longest active thread that I am aware of (by post count) - courtesy of the PSAC board:

PASSHE Institutions Merging - D2 Message Board

It took them 1,180 days to reach 3453 replies. It took this group 784 days.

They're currently sitting at 4,332 replies - though the thread hasn't been updated in two weeks. That thread has been active for a total of 1,826 days. If we keep up our average of 4.4 posts/day, it will take us exactly 200 more days to reach the same for a total of 984.

We'll get there - I'm sure Jamestown will give everyone a lot to talk about over the winter.

What's funny is that their thread is about an entire consolidation of an academic system in one of the country's most populous states, ours is about a tiny college in North Decoder (and 1400 other things).

[zimmy21]

Give you an inch and you’ll take a foot.

You’re right though, it is silly and non-sensical to push back like that because absolutely nobody is calling for a 3-team league. Many have stated they do not think Jamestown will be competitive (meaning actual wins, not just keeping some games close - vastly different). I’m in the camp that thinks the NSIC panicked and accepted a school they didn’t need to, but to say that people want the non-top 3 banished is…silly and non-sensical. Crookston is about the only school where people have that feeling. And likely justified.

I'll add St. Cloud just because they dropped Football.

[laker]

Football seemed to get better as the season went on. They didnt win but there were many games that were not blowouts and against good teams. I also noticed they were scoring points and the offense seemed improved FWIW

I thought that their QB was pretty good. Lots of yards running- pretty slippery.

[Stanger86]

Give you an inch and you’ll take a foot.

You’re right though, it is silly and non-sensical to push back like that because absolutely nobody is calling for a 3-team league. Many have stated they do not think Jamestown will be competitive (meaning actual wins, not just keeping some games close - vastly different). I’m in the camp that thinks the NSIC panicked and accepted a school they didn’t need to, but to say that people want the non-top 3 banished is…silly and non-sensical. Crookston is about the only school where people have that feeling. And likely justified.

I have not said that anyone has actually called for that. I'm saying that's the essential result if judging teams by lack of competitiveness and small market size (another fun go-to for Jamestown detractors), like everyone wants to do for Jamestown.

Most people already want to do away with Mary, Minot, Crookston, and Jamestown. Southwest is small and sucks in football, so let's get rid of them since they're so uncompetitive. Bemidji is small and underfunded as much as anyone, so banish them. St Cloud doesn't have football, so get rid of them. Suddenly your 16-team league is down to 9 teams and barely viable as a Division II conference.

[SW_Mustang]

I have not said that anyone has actually called for that. I'm saying that's the essential result if judging teams by lack of competitiveness and small market size (another fun go-to for Jamestown detractors), like everyone wants to do for Jamestown.

Most people already want to do away with Mary, Minot, Crookston, and Jamestown. Southwest is small and sucks in football, so let's get rid of them since they're so uncompetitive. Bemidji is small and underfunded as much as anyone, so banish them. St Cloud doesn't have football, so get rid of them. Suddenly your 16-team league is down to 9 teams and barely viable as a Division II conference.

The opposite is also true - we could add 20-30 more teams, some with football, some without. That wouldn't make for a viable conference either.

This is just my opinion - but I believe UMC is better served in the UMAC for a plethora of reasons discussed to death already. The lack of football at St. Cloud is a symptom of a much larger issue and one that I hope the NSIC doesn't have to deal with the fallout of. In both cases and beyond, I don't think the NSIC needs to function as a charity organization for allcomers.

Personally, I have no issue with the NSIC keeping Mary, Minot, SMSU and Bemidji. Admittedly, I don't have a great reason to keep the former two - maybe it's just because they aren't glaring issues like UMC and St. Cloud are (in my opinion - yours and everyone else are allowed to vary).

[laker]

CSP announces football coaching change - Concordia University, St. Paul Athletics

[Purple Mav Man]

I have not said that anyone has actually called for that. I'm saying that's the essential result if judging teams by lack of competitiveness and small market size (another fun go-to for Jamestown detractors), like everyone wants to do for Jamestown.

Most people already want to do away with Mary, Minot, Crookston, and Jamestown. Southwest is small and sucks in football, so let's get rid of them since they're so uncompetitive. Bemidji is small and underfunded as much as anyone, so banish them. St Cloud doesn't have football, so get rid of them. Suddenly your 16-team league is down to 9 teams and barely viable as a Division II conference.

You’re taking things to extremes that no one is calling for.

You say one thing in your first paragraph, then the very opposite in your second. Seems you’re the one calling for those schools to be banished.

[Stanger86]

You’re taking things to extremes that no one is calling for.

Fair enough. Maybe I'm mistaken, thinking people said Jamestown was too small, too underfunded, too poorly located to be worth the NSIC and Division II's time during the application process. It's quite possible that those things weren't said. But I'm pretty sure they were.

[CollegeFBGuy]

Fair enough. Maybe I'm mistaken, thinking people said Jamestown was too small, too underfunded, too poorly located to be worth the NSIC and Division II's time during the application process. It's quite possible that those things weren't said. But I'm pretty sure they were.

I’m not sure I want to stick a foot in this little tiff, but I don’t believe many had objections to them going D2. I mainly remember people questioning why the NSIC had to immediately roll out the welcome mat and bring them in. People wanted the conference leadership to consider them and other options that might come up. I’m a fan of a “smaller, under funded” school and I haven’t read anything offensive towards smaller schools or any idea that our school should be booted

[Purple Mav Man]

I’m not sure I want to stick a foot in this little tiff, but I don’t believe many had objections to them going D2. I mainly remember people questioning why the NSIC had to immediately roll out the welcome mat and bring them in. People wanted the conference leadership to consider them and other options that might come up. I’m a fan of a “smaller, under funded” school and I haven’t read anything offensive towards smaller schools or any idea that our school should be booted

This 👏🏻

[badboyblynn]

I have followed the NSIC for quite a while, more in depth once the old NCC teams merged (is that the correct term?) and I thought Upper Iowa had NO business going D2, especially not in the NSIC. However, they improved (in football) over a few seasons. So, I say give the Jimmies a few years, let's review after the 2028 campaign and if they haven't shown improvement by then, burn'em down!

[Stanger86]

I’m a fan of a “smaller, under funded” school and I haven’t read anything offensive towards smaller schools or any idea that our school should be booted

This thread is filled with such statements. Maybe not directed at your school or mine.....yet.

[Stanger86]

I mainly remember people questioning why the NSIC had to immediately roll out the welcome mat and bring them in. People wanted the conference leadership to consider them and other options that might come up. I’m a fan of a “smaller, under funded” school and I haven’t read anything offensive towards smaller schools or any idea that our school should be booted

That's the thing though, this conference is filled with smaller, under-funded programs. Yet when a program in a similar situation expresses interest and there is a very clear need to fill an opening....if you tell Jamestown "no thanks" because they are too small or too under-funded, to me that sends a very clear signal to the rest of the conference institutions that those smaller, under-funded programs are indeed inferior to the NCC Four and whatever other institutions meet the magic threshold.

[zimmy21]

That's the thing though, this conference is filled with smaller, under-funded programs. Yet when a program in a similar situation expresses interest and there is a very clear need to fill an opening....if you tell Jamestown "no thanks" because they are too small or too under-funded, to me that sends a very clear signal to the rest of the conference institutions that those smaller, under-funded programs are indeed inferior to the NCC Four and whatever other institutions meet the magic threshold.

There was no "clear need" though. 15 / 13 was just fine, schedules are still possible to make, travel is roughly the same, and competition technically got tougher with Non-cons and no cupcake wins for the North. The only possibilities of anyone truly leaving were St. Cloud and UMC, which would have been just fine as well. The fact is the NSIC "leadership" showed no backbone and took the first school that came begging for help.

[Stanger86]

There was no "clear need" though. 15 / 13 was just fine, schedules are still possible to make, travel is roughly the same, and competition technically got tougher with Non-cons and no cupcake wins for the North. The only possibilities of anyone truly leaving were St. Cloud and UMC, which would have been just fine as well. The fact is the NSIC "leadership" showed no backbone and took the first school that came begging for help.

I think right or wrong, I believe the scheduling piece was a bigger factor than most general NSIC fans want to admit. And I do think there's a level of stability there when the league runs with an even number of schools. I think it's why they didn't just add Sioux Falls in 2012, they added Minot too. Going all the way back to the 1990s, every membership change was either keeping the league at an even number or quickly returning the league to an even number after a defection.