3rd and 4th and short formations

[sportsvine]

Put the damn qb under center on 3rd and 1, and especially on 4th and 1. I hate that shotgun **** in these short yardage situations.

[Turbonium]

Put the damn qb under center on 3rd and 1, and especially on 4th and 1. I hate that shotgun **** in these short yardage situations.

Well, at least Chadron showed up to play today against a very good Angelo team. Pueblo is getting completely destroyed already, I'm not too surprised as they haven't figured out how to play offense in about 7 years now. What an embarrassing showing though.

[sportsvine]

Well, at least Chadron showed up to play today against a very good Angelo team. Pueblo is getting completely destroyed already, I'm not too surprised as they haven't figured out how to play offense in about 7 years now. What an embarrassing showing though.

CSUP will still beat Chadron by 30 points when they play later in the season.

[Turbonium]

CSUP will still beat Chadron by 30 points when they play late in the season.

At this rate that will only be the case if the Pueblo defense scores several TDs. Zero TDs by the offense in 6 quarters so far, even Fort Lewis managed an offensive TD against Tarleton.

[ccmoney8]

Put the damn qb under center on 3rd and 1, and especially on 4th and 1. I hate that shotgun **** in these short yardage situations.

I don't like it much either. I'd like the defense to at least be able to respect the run. However on the other hand, if both teams know it's a pass play, and *you know* both teams know, if the QB is more confident sitting back in shotgun, well give him some room to be confident.

All that said, it wasn't the last drive that doomed CSC. It was losing a 7th year DB in the 1st half to a targeting call and having to put in a freshman. And losing a 6th year OL to injury somewhere in the middle of the game.

[Packfootball]

At this rate that will only be the case if the Pueblo defense scores several TDs. Zero TDs by the offense in 6 quarters so far, even Fort Lewis managed an offensive TD against Tarleton.

SO what your saying is the offensive coordinator, oh heck, the entire offense coaching staff should be fired! Maybe even the Head Coach. In seven years they have not produced and explosive offence for ya. Yes the caveman offence is lacking punch! Keep the defense coaches! Since our natty, the offense has gone on vacation! I said it! Somebody had too! This can not keep happening. CO Mines also looks vunerable. Highlands and Western have improved. Chadron is just Chadron, middle of the pack again. Ft. Lewis brings up the end. The old wildcat nd plays that worked 8 years ago are not working now. It's two games in a row. Yes, I know it was against very good programs. But Commerce lost to Midwestern St by 1 point. I see that Mankato lost to Deluth. And a few other upsets Saturday.

[Turbonium]

SO what your saying is the offensive coordinator, oh heck, the entire offense coaching staff should be fired! Maybe even the Head Coach. In seven years they have not produced and explosive offence for ya. Yes the caveman offence is lacking punch! Keep the defense coaches! Since our natty, the offense has gone on vacation! I said it! Somebody had too! This can not keep happening. CO Mines also looks vunerable. Highlands and Western have improved. Chadron is just Chadron, middle of the pack again. Ft. Lewis brings up the end. The old wildcat nd plays that worked 8 years ago are not working now. It's two games in a row. Yes, I know it was against very good programs. But Commerce lost to Midwestern St by 1 point. I see that Mankato lost to Deluth. And a few other upsets Saturday.

Yes, I think the team has underperformed long enough that changes need to be made. Embarrassed by Mankato multiple times, losses to bad West Texas teams, embarrassed by Mines twice, embarrassed by Grand Valley twice. Any good team simply stops the run and the game is over because for some reason there is zero ability to recruit a QB who can drop back and be a threat. Beating teams with far lesser resources is great and all but this team has been completely handled by anyone worth mentioning for the last several years. Not even sure Pueblo will be the 2nd best team in the conference at this point.

[sportsvine]

I don't like it much either. I'd like the defense to at least be able to respect the run. However on the other hand, if both teams know it's a pass play, and *you know* both teams know, if the QB is more confident sitting back in shotgun, well give him some room to be confident.

All that said, it wasn't the last drive that doomed CSC. It was losing a 7th year DB in the 1st half to a targeting call and having to put in a freshman. And losing a 6th year OL to injury somewhere in the middle of the game.

There are no howevers... Chadron State is balanced offensively in that they run and pass about 50/50. So, in 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1, the shotgun formation allows space in the offensive backfield to make a play... AND it takes away the idea of a qb sneak. I just don't understand that formation in those situations. It's 100% stupid. Other than those situations, I am actually fine with Chadron State's offensive approach as I wholeheartedly believe in 50/50 run/pass mindset.

[d2-football-fan]

SO what your saying is the offensive coordinator, oh heck, the entire offense coaching staff should be fired! Maybe even the Head Coach. In seven years they have not produced and explosive offence for ya. Yes the caveman offence is lacking punch! Keep the defense coaches! Since our natty, the offense has gone on vacation! I said it! Somebody had too! This can not keep happening. CO Mines also looks vunerable. Highlands and Western have improved. Chadron is just Chadron, middle of the pack again. Ft. Lewis brings up the end. The old wildcat nd plays that worked 8 years ago are not working now. It's two games in a row. Yes, I know it was against very good programs. But Commerce lost to Midwestern St by 1 point. I see that Mankato lost to Deluth. And a few other upsets Saturday.

I wouldn't be so quick to discount NMHU or subsequently Mines. Going back several years, NMHU had GREAT athletes on their teams and they could explode on any given day. They were just so undisciplined that they would ruin their chances with inopportune mistakes and penalties. They look very similar to that so far this year. Their first game they rolled up 650 yards of total offense. Even in todays world of all-offense all the time, that's still a huge game. And that was despite 10+ penalties for 120 yards. They didn't roll up the same yardage against Mines, but they did roll up the same penalties. But even with all of those penalties they played a very competitive game with the team that looks to be leading the conference so far this year.

Mines hasn't looked as overpowering offensively as they have in years past, or as was expected of them this year will of the returning players they have on offense. But they haven't been terrible either. They did put up 60 in week 1 and are averaging 45... Highlands might just be better, and if they can get some discipline - dangerous.

After two weeks (for most), I'd say it looks like this:

Mines
Western
Mesa
SDSM
NMHU
CSUP
Chadron
BHSU
Adams
FLC

The top few are hard to tell apart yet

The middle is always jumbled

Adams and FLC will be fighting hard...

[d2-football-fan]

Put the damn qb under center on 3rd and 1, and especially on 4th and 1. I hate that shotgun **** in these short yardage situations.

Todays game isn't about that... Most offensive lines aren't designed around power and even if a qb could take a snap the o-line may not get a good push. And if they are used to running the spread, there are other options that aren't present in the tight - power formation. RPO's with 3 receivers to 1 side can give options as well - quick screen, run one receiver deep with one blocking for the screen. They can also run option or counter action with the back. Is it different than a generation or two ago? Sure. That doesn't mean it's worse, and that's what kids are coming from high school skilled with...

[ccmoney8]

Mines
Western
Mesa
SDSM
NMHU
CSUP
Chadron
BHSU
Adams
FLC

I've adjusted my rankings from preseason as well, but I don't know how much I'm willing to adjust based on two games, and varying degrees of competition played.

This is where I have it currently. I'm not willing to move Pueblo down until I see what they do against non-ranked opponents. The two they lost to might meet in December for all we know. Willing to move Western based on head-to-head with Chadron, but Mesa has only beat a team we knew was inferior going in, so it's hard to move them up any. Likewise, I can't move them down either. SD Mines beat a somewhat respectable opponent at home week 1, but anyone in the RMAC would beat Mayville by 40. NMHU and BHSU both move up, but it's mostly because A ams looks like dog poo. Dickinson looks down from last year, so BHSU's best game might be beating William Jewell on the road.

Mines
CSUP
Western
Chadron
Mesa
SDSM
NMHU
BHSU
Adams
FLC

[Turbonium]

I've adjusted my rankings from preseason as well, but I don't know how much I'm willing to adjust based on two games, and varying degrees of competition played.

This is where I have it currently. I'm not willing to move Pueblo down until I see what they do against non-ranked opponents. The two they lost to might meet in December for all we know. Willing to move Western based on head-to-head with Chadron, but Mesa has only beat a team we knew was inferior going in, so it's hard to move them up any. Likewise, I can't move them down either. SD Mines beat a somewhat respectable opponent at home week 1, but anyone in the RMAC would beat Mayville by 40. NMHU and BHSU both move up, but it's mostly because A ams looks like dog poo. Dickinson looks down from last year, so BHSU's best game might be beating William Jewell on the road.

Mines
CSUP
Western
Chadron
Mesa
SDSM
NMHU
BHSU
Adams
FLC

Agreed, it's hard for me to rank teams that have played terrible competition and also have never beaten Pueblo ahead of CSUP in any conference rankings. All respect to Western State and whoever else but no...just no. The Pueblo offense that looks awful vs top 15 competition is again going to roll most of the RMAC teams. The defense that held Commerce to 4 FGs is again going to dominate against many conference teams. Not sure that some understand the difference in the talent level from the Grand Valleys of D2 to the Black Hills but they will this coming Saturday when the Pueblo offense suddenly looks good and they win by 30+. I still think changes need to be made at Pueblo, but they will still dominate the vast majority of conference games.

Mines
CSUP
Western
NMHU
Mesa
Chadron
SDSM
BHSU
Adams
FLC

[sportsvine]

Todays game isn't about that... Most offensive lines aren't designed around power and even if a qb could take a snap the o-line may not get a good push. And if they are used to running the spread, there are other options that aren't present in the tight - power formation. RPO's with 3 receivers to 1 side can give options as well - quick screen, run one receiver deep with one blocking for the screen. They can also run option or counter action with the back. Is it different than a generation or two ago? Sure. That doesn't mean it's worse, and that's what kids are coming from high school skilled with...

I understand all that and the spread is the current generation's favored offensive approach. I understand the spread is designed to give many many options for the defense to think about. I still maintain, however, the spread formation is a bad weakness in short yardage situations especially on 3rd and 4th down. I actually like the spread, but if I were offensive coordinator, I would look heavily into having a more power approach this these sorts of short yardage situations.

[d2-football-fan]

I understand all that and the spread is the current generation's favored offensive approach. I understand the spread is designed to give many many options for the defense to think about. I still maintain, however, the spread formation is a bad weakness in short yardage situations especially on 3rd and 4th down. I actually like the spread, but if I were offensive coordinator, I would look heavily into having a more power approach this these sorts of short yardage situations.

It's hard to run spread, 4 wide outs, linemen who can get out for the qb to throw on the run and then also have big boys - linemen and RB's for short yardage. Especially in D2 where schollies are fewer. I appreciate your point and dislike for change. But, if the OC / play caller is worth a lick, the spread gives so many options. It's just that like in all things, the ones who are really good are few and far between (and not often in the RMAC). And part of that is in fact recruiting - a qb who can actually make all of those reads and figure out where the ball goes - and getting him on campus is important too.

[sportsvine]

In South Dakota's loss 7-3 loss to Iowa, a game in which Iowa's 7 points came off of a FG and two safeties, the first safety was when South Dakota State had a 1st and 10 from their own 1 yardline, and the qb lines up in the shotgun, handoff up the middle rb gets tackled in the endzone.

In Chadron State's loss to Angelo, Chadron had a 3rd and 1 around midfield, early in the game when the score was close, lined up in the shotgun, handoff up the middle for a short loss, and a punt.

Against Nebraska, North Dakota had a 3rd and 1 around midfield, lines up under center qb sneak for 2 yards and a first down.

I have nothing against spread offenses, but I do think it's absolutely terrible that the simple idea of lining up under center in key situations is a lost art.