What happned to the Thunder at CSUP

[BHer]

I know very little about the SD schools, so I don't have much to say about them, other than right now, they are helping to lift the conference because a lot of the other teams are below average.

With regards to FLC, yes it's impressive to put together a 7 win season and win a big game. It's more impressive to win 7 per year for a stretch. Again, I don't blame the players or coaches for that (although both know what they are signing up for). Their administration does very little to support the football program. I get it, it's also the most expensive program - the largest roster (and scholarship expense), the most equipment, the most travel cost (at least per game), the most recruiting, the most coaches (when fully staffed), etc. That's why FLC is much more competitive in many other sports - they have lower cost and therefore less difference between the haves and have nots. I personally, as a former player and current fan, am not that impressed with schools that think a 5 win season is an accomplishment. It's a start. It's a stepping stone. It can't be the accomplishment, otherwise you do a disservice to the idea of competition. FLC has done nothing to show that any success, recent (or more recent than another school) is anything other than a flash in the pan. And this IS different than the SC schools, particularly, imo, SDSM which has had a slow but steady growth. I certainly hope BHSU is in the winner's circle to stay as well. We need more programs making positive change in their programs and performance.

UNK is also helped by the gravity of their conference affiliation... by that, I mean, for example, if I were a D1 quality athlete, would I rather go play in the Big 12 or the AAC? All things equal, the Big 12. There are definitely lesser Big 12 teams and better AAC teams, but on average my statement is true. At the D2 level, there are not many conferences, top to bottom, better than the MIAA. I fully believe that's more attractive to kids who have choices. So yes, they fund better now than when they were in the scholarship limited RMAC, but they play NWMS every year, Pitt St, Washburn has had really good teams recently, and about 3 other teams that are consistently above average who would be top teams in the RMAC.

Definitely agree with you on this. Conference affiliation and quality of the opponents in that conference is a big draw for better athletes. And I definitely agree about sustained success being important. The question I think is more what is acceptable? Obviously last place finishes every year aren't acceptable. But at a building school I do think you're going to have issues sustaining success and most programs are going to go through bad years. Even CSC and pueblo this year are having those issues this year (I mean their issues sustaining the success they've had in the past.). So are up and down years every so often an acceptable goal? I would think so for certain schools while they try and generate more support.

I do hope that Ft lewis is able to progress as you said. And I think a huge start is who's in the foundation at the University. I think BHSU has some great people in that department as well as some big donors helping move the athletic departments in the right direction.

BHSU in the past also was a very dominant program in other sports like cross country basketball and volleyball. You can sure do a lot more with 5 full rides on a basketball team than you can a football team! And we definitely had issues getting buy in for some time supporting the football program as it is very expensive! So i think historically based on that your saying Durango and Spearfish have been in similar situations. Back in the 2000s they hired a great football coach that changed the football program immensely in my opinion. He actually left because the school hadn't fulfilled promises as far as support for the football program. Finding that special coach and keeping them can be hard as well.

[d2 football fan]

Definitely agree with you on this. Conference affiliation and quality of the opponents in that conference is a big draw for better athletes. And I definitely agree about sustained success being important. The question I think is more what is acceptable? Obviously last place finishes every year aren't acceptable. But at a building school I do think you're going to have issues sustaining success and most programs are going to go through bad years. Even CSC and pueblo this year are having those issues this year (I mean their issues sustaining the success they've had in the past.). So are up and down years every so often an acceptable goal? I would think so for certain schools while they try and generate more support.

I do hope that Ft lewis is able to progress as you said. And I think a huge start is who's in the foundation at the University. I think BHSU has some great people in that department as well as some big donors helping move the athletic departments in the right direction.

BHSU in the past also was a very dominant program in other sports like cross country basketball and volleyball. You can sure do a lot more with 5 full rides on a basketball team than you can a football team! And we definitely had issues getting buy in for some time supporting the football program as it is very expensive! So i think historically based on that your saying Durango and Spearfish have been in similar situations. Back in the 2000s they hired a great football coach that changed the football program immensely in my opinion. He actually left because the school hadn't fulfilled promises as far as support for the football program. Finding that special coach and keeping them can be hard as well.

My curiosity got piqued, and my memory is bad, so I went back and looked at conference placing for the last several years (including current standings, recognizing they are not final), in an attempt to see if there are slow developing trends, or sudden changes, within specific programs, and what that MIGHT mean for future seasons.

My thoughts on how it kind of shakes out...

Colorado Mines is established at the top
Western went through a build up and looks to be hanging out at the top
Mesa was doing the build up, until this year happened. This year isn't done, but it sure started poorly for them.
SD Mines looks to be in the midst of a build up. Their offense looks pretty real, they need to address that defense a bit.
BHSU looks like the new QB or a new coach / coordinator have flipped a switch. No build up just sudden change. Is that sustainable?
NMHU looks like their good seasons are middle of the pack and their bad seasons are closer to the bottom
Same goes for Adams. But, as I've stated, there's more fight to this team, I'm interested to see a year or two into the future.
Pueblo looks to be in clear decline. That's disappointing for a lot of reasons and at a lot of levels, but it looks like a trend.
Chadron looks to be in decline: 3rd, 4th, 5th and currently in 8th (tied for last with other winless teams in conference)
Fort Lewis' good seasons are middle of the pack, but they are a very consistent bottom dweller, and this team is even exceptional in that regard.

Outside of any big changes in individual programs, what does next year potentially look like?
Colorado Mines should be near the top.
Western too.
SD Mines encroaching? Maybe an upset win, but as history shows us in the RMAC, maybe an upset loss as well?
Will BHSU have carry over, or revert?
Does Adams start to see some wins for their efforts?
Highlands in the middle.
Pueblo make a change? Stem the Tide? Ride the Tide?
Which Mesa team shows up? I'm not really sure about why the drop off this year, so not sure how to fix it.
Chadron looks like they may be in a free fall...
FLC is free falling and has reached terminal velocity - look out below!

	17	18	19	20	21	23	23
Colorado School of Mines	3	1	1		1	1
Western Colorado	9	7	4		1	1
Black Hills State	6	7	8		8	1
South Dakota School of Mines	6	5	8		6	4
New Mexico Highlands	9	5	8		6	4
Colorado State Pueblo	1	1	2		4	6
Adams State	6	9	6		9	6
Mesa Colorado	1	4	3		3	8
Chadron State	4	3	4		5	8
Fort Lewis	5	10	7		10	8

[Packfootball]

My curiosity got piqued, and my memory is bad, so I went back and looked at conference placing for the last several years (including current standings, recognizing they are not final), in an attempt to see if there are slow developing trends, or sudden changes, within specific programs, and what that MIGHT mean for future seasons.

My thoughts on how it kind of shakes out...

Colorado Mines is established at the top
Western went through a build up and looks to be hanging out at the top
Mesa was doing the build up, until this year happened. This year isn't done, but it sure started poorly for them.
SD Mines looks to be in the midst of a build up. Their offense looks pretty real, they need to address that defense a bit.
BHSU looks like the new QB or a new coach / coordinator have flipped a switch. No build up just sudden change. Is that sustainable?
NMHU looks like their good seasons are middle of the pack and their bad seasons are closer to the bottom
Same goes for Adams. But, as I've stated, there's more fight to this team, I'm interested to see a year or two into the future.
Pueblo looks to be in clear decline. That's disappointing for a lot of reasons and at a lot of levels, but it looks like a trend.
Chadron looks to be in decline: 3rd, 4th, 5th and currently in 8th (tied for last with other winless teams in conference)
Fort Lewis' good seasons are middle of the pack, but they are a very consistent bottom dweller, and this team is even exceptional in that regard.

Outside of any big changes in individual programs, what does next year potentially look like?
Colorado Mines should be near the top.
Western too.
SD Mines encroaching? Maybe an upset win, but as history shows us in the RMAC, maybe an upset loss as well?
Will BHSU have carry over, or revert?
Does Adams start to see some wins for their efforts?
Highlands in the middle.
Pueblo make a change? Stem the Tide? Ride the Tide?
Which Mesa team shows up? I'm not really sure about why the drop off this year, so not sure how to fix it.
Chadron looks like they may be in a free fall...
FLC is free falling and has reached terminal velocity - look out below!

	17	18	19	20	21	23	23
Colorado School of Mines	3	1	1		1	1
Western Colorado	9	7	4		1	1
Black Hills State	6	7	8		8	1
South Dakota School of Mines	6	5	8		6	4
New Mexico Highlands	9	5	8		6	4
Colorado State Pueblo	1	1	2		4	6
Adams State	6	9	6		9	6
Mesa Colorado	1	4	3		3	8
Chadron State	4	3	4		5	8
Fort Lewis	5	10	7		10	8

I don't see Pueblo making any changes. It's Wristen's baby until he retires.

[Turbonium]

Well, Adams looks to be pretty terrible again...still?