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  • #16
    Originally posted by MinnequaFats View Post
    Let's maybe see how the Western and Mines games go before declaring 2022 a lost season.
    Ouch.

    Comment


    • #17
      Pups played a pretty good second half. Run game showed some promise. Good luck the rest of the way!

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Wrecked Again View Post
        Pups played a pretty good second half. Run game showed some promise. Good luck the rest of the way!
        Don't be too nice, no need for that. The game was well over by half. Punting on 4th & 2 from the 50 when you're down 21-3 was a clear decision from Pueblo's coaches that the game was over. The stark difference from Pueblo teams just 2 or 3 seasons ago is pretty striking. Blocks aren't held by the OL, the D can't shed blocks. Zero swagger to be found. Pueblo is officially a .500 team in the RMAC at best. Mines has done great things and should have a memorable season but the Pack program should be embarrassed by this one.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Turbonium View Post

          Don't be too nice, no need for that. The game was well over by half. Punting on 4th & 2 from the 50 when you're down 21-3 was a clear decision from Pueblo's coaches that the game was over. The stark difference from Pueblo teams just 2 or 3 seasons ago is pretty striking. Blocks aren't held by the OL, the D can't shed blocks. Zero swagger to be found. Pueblo is officially a .500 team in the RMAC at best. Mines has done great things and should have a memorable season but the Pack program should be embarrassed by this one.
          The trend I'm seeing from CSUP this season is a failure to adapt defensively to whatever success the opponent's offense is having. Today they had no answer for Matocha and the RPO. Offensively, they can't get a rally going when falling behind. This is really out of character for the team who has been the top of the RMAC for the past many years.
          Last edited by CSM alum 1993; 09-24-2022, 07:59 PM.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by CSM alum 1993 View Post

            The trend I'm seeing from CSUP this season is a failure to adapt defensively to whatever success the opponent's offense is having. Today they had no answer for Matcha and the RPO. Offensively, they can't get a rally going when falling behind. This is really out of character for the team who has been the top of the RMAC for the past many years.
            It has been a quick but obvious decline the last 3 years or so. The physical domination you expected from them is gone. Can't hold blocks, can't shed blocks, can't make tackles. Many more obvious issues than these but the physical advantages they had in prior years is no longer there and they aren't winning in any other ways...

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Turbonium View Post

              It has been a quick but obvious decline the last 3 years or so. The physical domination you expected from them is gone. Can't hold blocks, can't shed blocks, can't make tackles. Many more obvious issues than these but the physical advantages they had in prior years is no longer there and they aren't winning in any other ways...
              I certainly can't argue. I am though stunned after watching the dominant performance in the week 1 win at Midwestern. I wrote off the loss to GV since they're elite. Since then though... wow.

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              • #22
                Certainly impressed by the score tonight, as well as the first week domination of Midwestern State when that team was ranked. But Midwestern's now 3-1 with opponents something like 2-15, and Fort Lewis doesn't even belong in D2, in my opinion. We're five weeks in, and still struggling to objectively assess Pueblo's success.

                I don't think we'll find out soon, as the schedule is set up for them to walk for the next three weeks until @Mesa, vs SD Mines, @ BHSU the last three weeks.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Ft Lewis was a bunch of Frosh playing like a high school football team yesterday. It showed. They were a cake walk for Pueblo. At least Pueblo got to enjoy a homecoming win. And Midwestern lost to Western New Mexico. Makes ya wonder about week one.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Packfootball View Post
                    Ft Lewis was a bunch of Frosh playing like a high school football team yesterday. It showed. They were a cake walk for Pueblo. At least Pueblo got to enjoy a homecoming win. And Midwestern lost to Western New Mexico. Makes ya wonder about week one.
                    I did the math last night, and Midwestern's opponents before losing to WNMU are a combined 4-14, including Pueblo.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ccmoney8 View Post
                      Fort Lewis doesn't even belong in D2, in my opinion.
                      I think almost every small school that doesn’t fully fund a football team goes through what Ft. Lewis is. It’s not like they’ve been this terrible every season. They had a .500 record in 2017 and went 7-4 in 2015. D2 is a war of attrition, hopefully they can get the guys playing now to stick around. The new coach seems serious about turning it around. I hope they can get him the budget they need to compete in the RMAC.

                      Last time they won 7 games
                      2021
                      Mines
                      Western
                      Mesa

                      2018
                      CSUP
                      Chadron

                      2016
                      Black Hills

                      2015
                      Ft. Lewis

                      2013
                      Adams State

                      2012
                      Highlands

                      2010
                      SD Mines

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by twolfbenchwarmer View Post

                        I think almost every small school that doesn’t fully fund a football team goes through what Ft. Lewis is. It’s not like they’ve been this terrible every season. They had a .500 record in 2017 and went 7-4 in 2015. D2 is a war of attrition, hopefully they can get the guys playing now to stick around. The new coach seems serious about turning it around. I hope they can get him the budget they need to compete in the RMAC.

                        Last time they won 7 games
                        2021
                        Mines
                        Western
                        Mesa

                        2018
                        CSUP
                        Chadron

                        2016
                        Black Hills

                        2015
                        Ft. Lewis

                        2013
                        Adams State

                        2012
                        Highlands

                        2010
                        SD Mines
                        Well put. I do think in some circumstances a non fully funded program can be year in year out competitive without down years in a conference but it takes a lot of great people in and around the program. It's so hard to fill a roster with ready to play kids with limited resources. Graduation and weak depth are tough to overcome.

                        I'm not sure on this but I'm going to guess that other than CO Mines and maybe Western now. Ft lewis might have more wins against CSUP than any other Rmac team since BHSU has been in the conference. I'm thinking Ft Lewis won two maybe since then? Plenty of teams haven't had the pleasure of beating them during that span. That counts for something I would say.
                        Last edited by BHer; 10-03-2022, 09:51 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          2014, I hate to remember that game that I attended in Durango, but Ft Lewis can always lay claim to being the only team to beat the eventual National Champion.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by BHer View Post

                            Well put. I do think in some circumstances a non fully funded program can be year in year out competitive without down years in a conference but it takes a lot of great people in and around the program. It's so hard to fill a roster with ready to play kids with limited resources. Graduation and weak depth are tough to overcome.

                            I'm not sure on this but I'm going to guess that other than CO Mines and maybe Western now. Ft lewis might have more wins against CSUP than any other Rmac team since BHSU has been in the conference. I'm thinking Ft Lewis won two maybe since then? Plenty of teams haven't had the pleasure of beating them during that span. That counts for something I would say.
                            But this only makes any programs goal of beating another program, in this case Pueblo. As 2014 showed, FLC beat Pueblo but was not a good program and Pueblo was. It's possible to win a fluke game and be bad, or lose a fluke game and be good.

                            But I will say, over the course of the last decade, FLC has spent way more time as a bad (politely speaking) team than it has as an average or mediocre team. There have been multiple years where I have wondered on this forum if they aren't the worst D2 team out there. I don't say this to speak against the coaches or the players - I trust they work hard. But, they don't have administration buy in - to fully fund scholarships, to get training facilities, to get full coaching staffs, etc., etc., etc. And short of an exception coach or group of kids, is just a recipe for terrible results, and that has proven true.

                            Adams has gone longer without winning 7 games, but their squad this year is fighting. They are still losing more than winning, but I really like the fight in them. If they have another year or two of this, they will start winning regularly. SDSM finished last year strong and has started this year right where they left off. It takes years to turn programs around, step by step, recruit by recruit, and FLC isn't doing that work from an administrative perspective. They are handcuffing their program and the kids only have so much fight in them without that support.

                            Who cares about beating CSUP (or any other program). Make progress. Spend dollars. Give the kids who do come to campus a chance.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by d2 football fan View Post

                              But this only makes any programs goal of beating another program, in this case Pueblo. As 2014 showed, FLC beat Pueblo but was not a good program and Pueblo was. It's possible to win a fluke game and be bad, or lose a fluke game and be good.

                              But I will say, over the course of the last decade, FLC has spent way more time as a bad (politely speaking) team than it has as an average or mediocre team. There have been multiple years where I have wondered on this forum if they aren't the worst D2 team out there. I don't say this to speak against the coaches or the players - I trust they work hard. But, they don't have administration buy in - to fully fund scholarships, to get training facilities, to get full coaching staffs, etc., etc., etc. And short of an exception coach or group of kids, is just a recipe for terrible results, and that has proven true.

                              Adams has gone longer without winning 7 games, but their squad this year is fighting. They are still losing more than winning, but I really like the fight in them. If they have another year or two of this, they will start winning regularly. SDSM finished last year strong and has started this year right where they left off. It takes years to turn programs around, step by step, recruit by recruit, and FLC isn't doing that work from an administrative perspective. They are handcuffing their program and the kids only have so much fight in them without that support.

                              Who cares about beating CSUP (or any other program). Make progress. Spend dollars. Give the kids who do come to campus a chance.
                              You are saying true things as well. As you said "short of an exception coach or group of kids". That's exactly what I was referring to. It takes a special group to have success when the cards are stacked against you.

                              SDSM I was told was a fully funded NAIA program when BHSU and SDSM transitioned to D2. BHSU had less than half the money SDSM did at the time. However BHSU was a better program the decades leading up to the transition both in head to head and often in the conference they were in. 1987 to present BHSU has a 28 and 13 series lead i saw in an article after winning this week. I credit that success to some of the people they had in the program at the time. Both teams had good and bad overall teams as far as their overall records over that time. This i think is due the attrition Twolfbenchwarmer talked about. As well as the fact that with limited resources it's tough to have that backup "waiting on the wings". Depth is a huge problem if you have less money to move around. The fact that BHSU has had such success during that time I think is impressive.

                              CSC wasn't completely fully funded and neither was UNK during that same span of late 80s though the 2010 time frame but had good and some great teams during that time. I know that in Chadrons case it was due to many things including but not limited to great coaches, passionate fan base, great local community, and some transcendent players. UNKs new success in the MIAA is probably due to more financial support and shows how important that is for a program to take the next step. Money is the most effective way to improve long term.

                              I think it's important to note that there are different limitations for different schools in D2. It's very hard to get the funding to fund these athletic departments in small schools. For that reason I think there are different measurements for success for certain programs. A 5 win season for one school might be as much as an accomplishment as a 10 win for someone else. Obviously everyone is working to get to the top. I do find it interesting though that Ft lewis had a 7 win team more recently than a few teams on that list. And just so happened to knock off the top dog in their prime the year before. To discount that I don't think is right because it's an impressive accomplishment. There are schools that sure would like to have that win against a great team!
                              ​​​​​​This is all what I love so much about college sports.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by BHer View Post

                                You are saying true things as well. As you said "short of an exception coach or group of kids". That's exactly what I was referring to. It takes a special group to have success when the cards are stacked against you.

                                SDSM I was told was a fully funded NAIA program when BHSU and SDSM transitioned to D2. BHSU had less than half the money SDSM did at the time. However BHSU was a better program the decades leading up to the transition both in head to head and often in the conference they were in. 1987 to present BHSU has a 28 and 13 series lead i saw in an article after winning this week. I credit that success to some of the people they had in the program at the time. Both teams had good and bad overall teams as far as their overall records over that time. This i think is due the attrition Twolfbenchwarmer talked about. As well as the fact that with limited resources it's tough to have that backup "waiting on the wings". Depth is a huge problem if you have less money to move around. The fact that BHSU has had such success during that time I think is impressive.

                                CSC wasn't completely fully funded and neither was UNK during that same span of late 80s though the 2010 time frame but had good and some great teams during that time. I know that in Chadrons case it was due to many things including but not limited to great coaches, passionate fan base, great local community, and some transcendent players. UNKs new success in the MIAA is probably due to more financial support and shows how important that is for a program to take the next step. Money is the most effective way to improve long term.

                                I think it's important to note that there are different limitations for different schools in D2. It's very hard to get the funding to fund these athletic departments in small schools. For that reason I think there are different measurements for success for certain programs. A 5 win season for one school might be as much as an accomplishment as a 10 win for someone else. Obviously everyone is working to get to the top. I do find it interesting though that Ft Lewis had a 7 win team more recently than a few teams on that list. And just so happened to knock off the top dog in their prime the year before. To discount that I don't think is right because it's an impressive accomplishment. There are schools that sure would like to have that win against a great team!
                                ​​​​​​This is all what I love so much about college sports.
                                I know very little about the SD schools, so I don't have much to say about them, other than right now, they are helping to lift the conference because a lot of the other teams are below average.

                                With regards to FLC, yes it's impressive to put together a 7 win season and win a big game. It's more impressive to win 7 per year for a stretch. Again, I don't blame the players or coaches for that (although both know what they are signing up for). Their administration does very little to support the football program. I get it, it's also the most expensive program - the largest roster (and scholarship expense), the most equipment, the most travel cost (at least per game), the most recruiting, the most coaches (when fully staffed), etc. That's why FLC is much more competitive in many other sports - they have lower cost and therefore less difference between the haves and have nots. I personally, as a former player and current fan, am not that impressed with schools that think a 5 win season is an accomplishment. It's a start. It's a stepping stone. It can't be the accomplishment, otherwise you do a disservice to the idea of competition. FLC has done nothing to show that any success, recent (or more recent than another school) is anything other than a flash in the pan. And this IS different than the SC schools, particularly, imo, SDSM which has had a slow but steady growth. I certainly hope BHSU is in the winner's circle to stay as well. We need more programs making positive change in their programs and performance.

                                UNK is also helped by the gravity of their conference affiliation... by that, I mean, for example, if I were a D1 quality athlete, would I rather go play in the Big 12 or the AAC? All things equal, the Big 12. There are definitely lesser Big 12 teams and better AAC teams, but on average my statement is true. At the D2 level, there are not many conferences, top to bottom, better than the MIAA. I fully believe that's more attractive to kids who have choices. So yes, they fund better now than when they were in the scholarship limited RMAC, but they play NWMS every year, Pitt St, Washburn has had really good teams recently, and about 3 other teams that are consistently above average who would be top teams in the RMAC.

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