NSIC Men's Scores and Standings (1/19)

[wscsuperfan]

MEN
Winona State 87, Bemidji State 59
Minnesota-Duluth 93, Concordia-St. Paul 63
Augustana 87, Minnesota State-Moorhead 82
St. Cloud State 77, Minnesota State-Mankato 74 (OT)
Minnesota-Crookston 100, Upper Iowa 69
Southwest Minnesota State 79, Mary 71
Wayne State 84, Northern State 81
Minot State 75, Sioux Falls 70

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North Division
1. Northern State (14-4, 10-2)
2. Minnesota State-Moorhead (14-6, 8-4)
2. St. Cloud State (13-5, 8-4)
4. Minnesota-Duluth (10-6, 7-5)
5. Minnesota-Crookston (13-8, 6-6)
6. Mary (7-11, 4-8)
7. Minot State (8-13, 3-9)
8. Bemidji State (5-11, 2-10)

South Division
1. Wayne State (14-4, 9-3)
2. Augustana (12-6, 8-4)
2. Minnesota State-Mankato (12-6, 8-4)
2. Sioux Falls (13-5, 8-4)
5. Southwest Minnesota State (10-8, 5-7)
6. Winona State (7-11, 4-8)
7. Concordia-St. Paul (8-10, 3-9)
7. Upper Iowa (6-12, 3-9)

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Games for Friday, January 25
Minnesota-Crookston at Mary
Minnesota State-Moorhead at Minnesota-Duluth
Southwest Minnesota State at Winona State
Sioux Falls at Upper Iowa
Northern State at St. Cloud State
Bemidji State at Minot State

Games for Saturday, January 26
Bemidji State at Mary
Minnesota State-Mankato at Wayne State
Minnesota State-Moorhead at St. Cloud State
Concordia-St. Paul at Augustana
Southwest Minnesota State at Upper Iowa
Minnesota-Crookston at Minot State
Northern State at Minnesota-Duluth
Sioux Falls at Winona State

Games for Sunday, January 27
Concordia-St. Paul at Wayne State
Minnesota State-Mankato at Augustana

[MrAugustana]

Re: NSIC Men's Scores and Standings (1/19)

The fact that Augie is 8-4 in conference play boggles my mind. We are missing two key starters, one of whom was our Preseason Player to Watch and was injured literally in our first game, the other of which was averaging 17.5 points and 9.5 rebounds per game and was on path to be 1st Team All-Conference before going down with his injury a few games into conference play, both our starting big men. Add to that the fact that we have a bunch of freshmen and sophomores out there 95% of the time with one junior playing 8-10 minutes a game and no seniors, and it's even more impressive. We may not make the Regional this year, but these guys are definitely better than I was hoping/expecting for at this point in the season.

[Purple Mav Man]

Re: NSIC Men's Scores and Standings (1/19)

The fact that Augie is 8-4 in conference play boggles my mind. We are missing two key starters, one of whom was our Preseason Player to Watch and was injured literally in our first game, the other of which was averaging 17.5 points and 9.5 rebounds per game and was on path to be 1st Team All-Conference before going down with his injury a few games into conference play, both our starting big men. Add to that the fact that we have a bunch of freshmen and sophomores out there 95% of the time with one junior playing 8-10 minutes a game and no seniors, and it's even more impressive. We may not make the Regional this year, but these guys are definitely better than I was hoping/expecting for at this point in the season.

Two things.

Can't say it enough, age doesn't beat talent. AU is young but they are talented.

The NSIC kinda sucks this year. However that is not to take away anything from the fact that AU is having a solid season at 8-4. They're just better than most (including you it seems) thought they'd be.

[NWHoops]

Re: NSIC Men's Scores and Standings (1/19)

Can't say it enough, age doesn't beat talent. AU is young but they are talented

I understand the concept you repeat but it is not absolute. There are plenty of teams with individual talent that don't play together as a team and therefore are not as successful as people would imagine.

On the other hand look at a team like Tennessee this year. Not a lot of high level recruits on that team and they had around a .500 record for a couple years. Now those same guys are beating teams with high level talent (including young talented teams like Duke) and are considered by many to be the best team in the country.

[Purple Mav Man]

Re: NSIC Men's Scores and Standings (1/19)

I understand the concept you repeat but it is not absolute. There are plenty of teams with individual talent that don't play together as a team and therefore are not as successful as people would imagine.

On the other hand look at a team like Tennessee this year. Not a lot of high level recruits on that team and they had around a .500 record for a couple years. Now those same guys are beating teams with high level talent (including young talented teams like Duke) and are considered by many to be the best team in the country.

I get that, but that's part of being talented IMO. Being able to work together as a team and knowing your role are both qualities that I regard as 'talent'. I've seen firsthand many times that individual talent means very little, look at my avatar! Ha. When they have the ability to work together, no matter how many years they've been together, that is TRUE talent.

Individual talent will only take you so far, but Augustana has team talent. So age doesn't matter. They are a talented TEAM. Same with NW.

This is a far different time than when freshmen weren't even allowed to play. As I've said, many freshmen come in with hundreds of games under their belt. Billeter and McCollum bring in the right guys for their systems and typically don't miss a beat. This year is a great example for both.

[NWHoops]

Re: NSIC Men's Scores and Standings (1/19)

I get that, but that's part of being talented IMO. Being able to work together as a team and knowing your role are both qualities that I regard as 'talent'. I've seen firsthand many times that individual talent means very little, look at my avatar! Ha. When they have the ability to work together, no matter how many years they've been together, that is TRUE talent.

Individual talent will only take you so far, but Augustana has team talent. So age doesn't matter. They are a talented TEAM. Same with NW.

This is a far different time than when freshmen weren't even allowed to play. As I've said, many freshmen come in with hundreds of games under their belt. Billeter and McCollum bring in the right guys for their systems and typically don't miss a beat. This year is a great example for both.

In that aspect it makes sense. When I think talent I think of physical abilities and skills. Recruiting sites aren't rating players based on being a good teammate or knowing your role in a system.

Putting a bunch of players with skills and abilities together doesn't always equal success. Coaches recruit with the belief they will gel but you never know until they play games together. And those players grow as they learn how to play in those systems. That's why many can be surprised by success of young teams. You can hope they will play well but you don't know until you see them in action.

[Purple Mav Man]

Re: NSIC Men's Scores and Standings (1/19)

In that aspect it makes sense. When I think talent I think of physical abilities and skills. Recruiting sites aren't rating players based on being a good teammate or knowing your role in a system.

Putting a bunch of players with skills and abilities together doesn't always equal success. Coaches recruit with the belief they will gel but you never know until they play games together. And those players grow as they learn how to play in those systems. That's why many can be surprised by success of young teams. You can hope they will play well but you don't know until you see them in action.

I agree. But recruiting sites aren't doing the actual recruiting. Good coaches, as the above mentioned are, are doing the recruiting and typically can get a decent feel for players and if they can work together. Even some untrained eyes can see when a physically talented player can be problematic to the team goals.

I certainly am not saying people are wrong to be surprised. Just think that people underestimate how good young players and teams can be. Of course, it can blow up in your face too. But again, with the hundreds of games played prior to stepping foot on campus, there are plenty of indicators available that players will work well together or not.

[MrAugustana]

Re: NSIC Men's Scores and Standings (1/19)

As mentioned before, I don't agree completely on the "talent is talent regardless of age" mindset. Mainly because I think guys have an advantage when they are comfortable playing with each other (to a degree that comes from practicing and playing together for 2+ years), when they fully know and understand coaches' offensive and defensive systems, know how to travel and prep on road trips, are more comfortable playing back-to-back nights, etc. Yes, talent can make some of those challenges easier, but I do think there's a very noticeable difference between a team full of fairly talented juniors/seniors and a team full of really talented freshmen, particularly at the D2 level when guys aren't leaving early for the NBA after a season or two (I think I've made that point before, but I still think it's true). And that's not even counting how many of these kids were well-coached and/or poorly-coached in high school or AAU. They might come in as talented freshmen and still be nowhere near their full potential if they are playing for a good college program/coach.

But even if you take away the age thing, the fact that the Vikings are winning without arguably their two best players (not even just one starter and a bench guy or two starters but neither of whom were huge players of importance) takes it to the next level. I know Mav fans were saying things like "I just hope Krieger is back soon" when Krieger was injured, and he was just one important player for MSU. To be winning with such young guys and having two key starters out with injuries just has me more impressed than usual with Augie's program this year.

[Purple Mav Man]

Re: NSIC Men's Scores and Standings (1/19)

As mentioned before, I don't agree completely on the "talent is talent regardless of age" mindset. Mainly because I think guys have an advantage when they are comfortable playing with each other (to a degree that comes from practicing and playing together for 2+ years), when they fully know and understand coaches' offensive and defensive systems, know how to travel and prep on road trips, are more comfortable playing back-to-back nights, etc. Yes, talent can make some of those challenges easier, but I do think there's a very noticeable difference between a team full of fairly talented juniors/seniors and a team full of really talented freshmen, particularly at the D2 level when guys aren't leaving early for the NBA after a season or two (I think I've made that point before, but I still think it's true). And that's not even counting how many of these kids were well-coached and/or poorly-coached in high school or AAU. They might come in as talented freshmen and still be nowhere near their full potential if they are playing for a good college program/coach.

But even if you take away the age thing, the fact that the Vikings are winning without arguably their two best players (not even just one starter and a bench guy or two starters but neither of whom were huge players of importance) takes it to the next level. I know Mav fans were saying things like "I just hope Krieger is back soon" when Krieger was injured, and he was just one important player for MSU. To be winning with such young guys and having two key starters out with injuries just has me more impressed than usual with Augie's program this year.

As I've said, people shouldn't feel bad for being surprised their team is exceeding expectations. I sure wish my team was. But I'd take a group of talented freshmen over a group of juniors and seniors that can only say they've been together for 3-4 years. Especially with the coach you guys have. And by this point in the season, if they haven't figured out the coach's schemes starting practices in October, is question how they got into school! Haha

The back to back thing doesn't mean much to me since these guys have been playing multiple games in back to back days since they were in 4th or 5th grade. It's nothing new to them.