D2 vs D1 in 2020?

[SW_Mustang]

In normal season I agree that it does not benefit FBS or D2 team eligibility for bowl or playoff to schedule each other. My point is that this year is far from normal and likelihood of such a matchup is greater with each rule change schedule waiver and viral outbreak. Will it happen at all or a lot remains to be seen.

Yeah, I get your point. I'm not sure what's going to happen myself.

If that were the case I would definitely watch.

[Argonut]

That's been my understanding. The bylaws are structured in such a way where the NCAA doesn't need a rule to prevent D2/FBS games since it's really a self-governing situation. However, since the matchups aren't explicitly prohibited, it does technically leave the possibility open.

On the flipside, a loss for the D2 team would technically count against them. Obviously, D2 uses a playoff structure based on a regional ranking system, so the fallout from losing to an FBS team probably wouldn't be all that bad. However, with only 11 games in a season, I can't imagine D2 squads would be all too eager to sacrifice a chance for a winnable game for a guaranteed loss.

In normal season I agree that it does not benefit FBS or D2 team eligibility for bowl or playoff to schedule each other. My point is that this year is far from normal and likelihood of such a matchup is greater with each rule change schedule waiver and viral outbreak. Will it happen at all or a lot remains to be seen.

[SW_Mustang]

That's been my understanding. The bylaws are structured in such a way where the NCAA doesn't need a rule to prevent D2/FBS games since it's really a self-governing situation. However, since the matchups aren't explicitly prohibited, it does technically leave the possibility open.

On the flipside, a loss for the D2 team would technically count against them. Obviously, D2 uses a playoff structure based on a regional ranking system, so the fallout from losing to an FBS team probably wouldn't be all that bad. However, with only 11 games in a season, I can't imagine D2 squads would be all too eager to sacrifice a chance for a winnable game for a guaranteed loss.

[Argonut]

NCAA waived requirement yesterday that FBS teams play 60% of their games against FBS opponents to allow for scheduling flexibility. One step closer to more D2 vs. D1 games this fall or spring.

[Argonut]

[SW_Mustang]

Well just because I was told something in the past doesn't mean it's true. I know it's hard to find a negative - a rule that doesn't exist in this instance - so I appreciate any work anyone puts into this.

I get that - I just meant you know more about CFB/D2/NCAA rules than I do, so your source is probably better than mine. The answer could certainly lie somewhere in the middle as well.

[Brandon]

You'd know better than I would, so it's very possible I'm wrong. I just recalled being told once that it's technically possible based on the rules, but we'll never see it happen.

If I get a chance I'll look into it as I'm curious to know the answer myself.

Well just because I was told something in the past doesn't mean it's true. I know it's hard to find a negative - a rule that doesn't exist in this instance - so I appreciate any work anyone puts into this.

[SW_Mustang]

I couldn't find anything "concrete" exactly. Below is the FBS scheduling bylaws which don't mention Division II anywhere. The Division II manual from 2018-2019 didn't outline any scheduling requirements as far as I could tell. Each manual is 300+ pages long, so I CTRL+F'd through them, so it is entirely possible that I missed something.

Further down is a snippet from the NCAA's website. It's an informal statement about the classification of divisions.

This is just what I came up with, if anyone wants to chime in please feel free - I'm curious about the correct answer.


https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/b...=103000#result

20.9.9.2 Football Scheduling Requirements. [FBS] The institution shall schedule and play at least 60 percent of its football games against members of the Football Bowl Subdivision. The institution shall schedule and play at least five regular-season home games against Football Bowl Subdivision opponents. For purposes of satisfying the home-games requirement, a contest shall be considered a home contest if it is played in the stadium in which an institution conducts at least 50 percent of its home contests. In addition, an institution may use one home contest against a Football Bowl Subdivision member conducted at a neutral site to satisfy the home-games requirement. (Revised: 4/25/02 effective 8/1/04, 1/12/04, 12/15/06, 10/6/17)

20.9.9.2.1 Exception -- Football Championship Subdivision Opponent. [FBS] Each year, a Football Bowl Subdivision institution may count one contest against a Football Championship Subdivision opponent to satisfy the football-scheduling requirement specified in Bylaw 20.9.9.2, provided the Football Championship Subdivision opponent has averaged 90 percent of the permissible maximum number of grants-in-aid per year in football over a rolling two-year period. (Adopted: 4/28/05, Revised: 12/15/06)

20.9.10.2 Football Scheduling Requirement. [FCSD] The institution shall schedule and play more than 50 percent of its football games against Football Bowl Subdivision or Football Championship Subdivision members. (Revised: 12/15/06)


http://www.ncaa.org/about/who-we-are...classification

There are contest and participant minimums for each sport, as well as scheduling criteria - football and men's and women's basketball teams must play at least 50 percent of their games against Division II or Football Bowl Subdivision (formerly Division I-A) or Football Championship Subdivision (formerly Division I-AA) opponents.

[SW_Mustang]

Maybe you are right. I was told it was not allowed. If you do more research I would appreciate it.

You'd know better than I would, so it's very possible I'm wrong. I just recalled being told once that it's technically possible based on the rules, but we'll never see it happen.

If I get a chance I'll look into it as I'm curious to know the answer myself.

[Brandon]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong - but as I understand it, there is no rule forbidding an FBS team from scheduling a D2 team.

Obviously, as well all know - an FBS team can't count a win against a D2 team for bowl eligibility. This, combined with the risk of injury, is why we'll never see a D2 team play an FBS team under normal circumstances. They have absolutely nothing to gain and absolutely everything to lose.

Maybe you are right. I was told it was not allowed. If you do more research I would appreciate it.

[Brandon]

Not allowed, or just don't do it because it would be an uncountable game for the FBS school? I thought it was because to have a game "count" on your schedule, it had to be within one level of play on either side of you. So FBS could play FCS, FCS could play FBS or D2, D2 could play FCS or D3 and still have them count.

Not allowed.

[Argonut]

[SW_Mustang]

Those sports don't carry the same injury risk and scheduling restrictions that football does. Then there's also the talent gap to consider, which is far greater in football than it is in almost every other sport, IMO. It's an apples to oranges comparison.

The Argos did beat the FCS North Alabama Lions in 2018, but that was a transitional year that saw a D2 UNA roster classified as an FCS independent. IMO, it's an impressive feat and a nice footnote for UWF, but it's just not the same as beating a seasoned D1 contender.

[Argonut]

Let me spin this around - why would West Florida ever agree to a game against FSU? Why would they risk the health of Austin Reed? Is the 15 seconds of fame ESPN would give the Argos really be worth the risk of injuring your starters and potentially sabotaging another title run? If they "win" the scrimmage rules game against a bunch of third stringers, do they get anything tangible as a result?

It's a fun idea in theory - I'd love to see Minnesota State play the Gophers, it's just never going to happen. Nobody stands anything to gain from it.

Maybe, and this is beyond a stretch here, but maybe a bottom-feeder FBS team with no playoff hopes decides to schedule a D2 team for game experience to avoid getting trucked by an FCS team. They'd be ridiculed by the sports media - but maybe they decide it's somehow worth it.

[SW_Mustang]

Let me spin this around - why would West Florida ever agree to a game against FSU? Why would they risk the health of Austin Reed? Is the 15 seconds of fame ESPN would give the Argos really be worth the risk of injuring your starters and potentially sabotaging another title run? If they "win" the scrimmage rules game against a bunch of third stringers, do they get anything tangible as a result?

It's a fun idea in theory - I'd love to see Minnesota State play the Gophers, it's just never going to happen. Nobody stands anything to gain from it.

Maybe, and this is beyond a stretch here, but maybe a bottom-feeder FBS team with no playoff hopes decides to schedule a D2 team for game experience to avoid getting trucked by an FCS team. They'd be ridiculed by the sports media - but maybe they decide it's somehow worth it.