Portal Movement in the NSIC

[Brandon]

I probably misunderstood the intent of your Hawaii comment - but it did feel like that (and NSU's post) were making the assumption that others believed location was the only factor, and was a retort to it.

Apologies if it was a misunderstanding.

Fair enough. I was laughing because I felt you were doing what you had criticized others of doing. I couldn't find anywhere that someone said it was one factor.

Each student's decision likely based on a set of factors including things as important as the cost/benefit analysis of the education to things as trivial as the school colors.

[SW_Mustang]

Fair enough. I was laughing because I felt you were doing what you had criticized others of doing. I couldn't find anywhere that someone said it was one factor.

Each student's decision likely based on a set of factors including things as important as the cost/benefit analysis of the education to things as trivial as the school colors.

I read fast sometimes and don't always pick up the intended meaning. It happens.

I agree - however I don't think location is as insignificant as some may (or may not) believe. I think to the average D2 recruit, it probably is somewhat important for various reasons, and I think that hurts Minot. I've definifely been in rooms with college football players in the last 10 years, and I've heard those conversations.

Now, is that why Minot is terrible at football, exclusively? Absolutely not. Does location help CSP in football? Not a ton it would seem.

That's my position - and folks can agree or disagree if they'd like. But to clarify, I'm boiling things down to what I believe an average recruit is like. Making concessions for every anecdotal situation (i.e. not "painting with a broad brush") would make for quite the sluggish discussion.

[NSU4LIFE]

Fair enough. I was laughing because I felt you were doing what you had criticized others of doing. I couldn't find anywhere that someone said it was one factor.

Each student's decision likely based on a set of factors including things as important as the cost/benefit analysis of the education to things as trivial as the school colors.

Does that a lot...

[SW_Mustang]

Does that a lot...

Lol you really are something, aren't you?

[debergfan]

Last 10 D2 Champions

2023 - Harding (Arkansas 44, Texas 34, Alabama 11)
2022 - Ferris State (Michigan 104, Florida 19)
2021 - Ferris State (Michan 108, Florida 24)
2019 - West Florida (Florida 103)
2018 - Valdosta State (Florida 56, Georgia 48)
2017 - Texas A&M-Commerce (Texas 127, California 10)
2016 - Northwest Missouri (Missouri 51, Iowa 30, Nebraska 12, Florida 12)
2015 - Northwest Missouri (Missouri 51, Iowa 26, Nebraska 12, Florida 11)
2014 - CSU-Pueblo (Colorado 81, Arizona 14)
2013 - Northwest Missouri (Missouri 59, Iowa 26, Nebraska 18, Kansas 12)

You could also argue each one of those teams had 50-60 full scholarship kids based on the their tuition rates. Has anyone at d2 won a national championship with flat tuition rate or small gap between in-state and out of state? Every school since 2013 had in-state and out of state tuition rate, in-state tuition rates for their high recruiting areas, see AL, FL, CA, IA, KS

15.4.2.2 Equivalency Computations A fraction shall be created, with the amount received by the student-athlete as the numerator and the full grant-in-aid value for that student-athlete as the denominator based upon the actual cost or average cost of a full grant for all students at that institution.

For example, West Florida - 19k for out of state student to attend, 6k for in-state, that's 3 florida kids for every student.

Estimates based on my assumptions
2023 - Harding (Arkansas 44, Texas 34, Alabama 11)
2022 - Ferris State (Michigan 104, Florida 19) 50-70 full scholarship athletes
2021 - Ferris State (Michigan 108, Florida 24) 50-70 full scholarship athletes
2019 - West Florida (Florida 103) my guess 80 were on full scholarship
2018 - Valdosta State (Florida 56, Georgia 48) my guess 80 were on full scholarship
2017 - Texas A&M-Commerce (Texas 127, California 10)
2016 - Northwest Missouri (Missouri 51, Iowa 30, Nebraska 12, Florida 12) my guess 60
2015 - Northwest Missouri (Missouri 51, Iowa 26, Nebraska 12, Florida 11) my guess 60
2014 - CSU-Pueblo (Colorado 81, Arizona 14) my guess 40
2013 - Northwest Missouri (Missouri 59, Iowa 26, Nebraska 18, Kansas 12) my guess 50

[FB Player Coach & Fan]

Having been involved in the actually recruiting of college athletes over 30 years+ Location is never the only deciding factor; but it is A factor in the recruiting factor. That was my main argument. Sioux Falls is a deep recruiting pool which supports Augustana and Sioux Falls compared to North Dakota— where athletes will take PWO to NDSU or UND over most D2 offers in the state. Recruits are going to favor going to winning programs over lower tier programs. And if you followed—airports can help in the recruiting process and still result in a losing program.

try to fill out a 100+ roster with only local kids or even a majority in almost any NSIC school (outside of the traditional power- Mankato-Angie-SF-Bemidji)— virtually impossible specifically in North Dakota. The reality versus the speculation. Recruiting is a different animal for each school—depending on location, community, access, scholarship, facilities, coaching staff and success of the program. Happy new year all

[Brandon]

You could also argue each one of those teams had 50-60 full scholarship kids based on the their tuition rates. Has anyone at d2 won a national championship with flat tuition rate or small gap between in-state and out of state? Every school since 2013 had in-state and out of state tuition rate, in-state tuition rates for their high recruiting areas, see AL, FL, CA, IA, KS

15.4.2.2 Equivalency Computations A fraction shall be created, with the amount received by the student-athlete as the numerator and the full grant-in-aid value for that student-athlete as the denominator based upon the actual cost or average cost of a full grant for all students at that institution.

For example, West Florida - 19k for out of state student to attend, 6k for in-state, that's 3 florida kids for every student.

Estimates based on my assumptions
2023 - Harding (Arkansas 44, Texas 34, Alabama 11)
2022 - Ferris State (Michigan 104, Florida 19) 50-70 full scholarship athletes
2021 - Ferris State (Michigan 108, Florida 24) 50-70 full scholarship athletes
2019 - West Florida (Florida 103) my guess 80 were on full scholarship
2018 - Valdosta State (Florida 56, Georgia 48) my guess 80 were on full scholarship
2017 - Texas A&M-Commerce (Texas 127, California 10)
2016 - Northwest Missouri (Missouri 51, Iowa 30, Nebraska 12, Florida 12) my guess 60
2015 - Northwest Missouri (Missouri 51, Iowa 26, Nebraska 12, Florida 11) my guess 60
2014 - CSU-Pueblo (Colorado 81, Arizona 14) my guess 40
2013 - Northwest Missouri (Missouri 59, Iowa 26, Nebraska 18, Kansas 12) my guess 50

Private schools have flat tuition rates.

Otherwise, it varies per school.

I guess I don't understand the point you're trying to make.

[MrMustang]

Their record could be a big reason.

The fact that they are in a small town in the middle of nowhere North Dakota might be another.

Minot is about 40,000 --- as far as D2 goes it is not a small town.

I agree many would think North Dakota is isolated, but I think Minot is a nice town. I would live there before San Francisco - for example.

[MrMustang]

There's no question that the Dakotas will have a limited amount of players coming out of HS that are truly D2 or higher football players..meaning, guys who could legit start. I hear it from coaches often. That said, the state of Minnesota (especially), Nebraska, Wisconsin, and Iowa, are all within reasonable enough driving distance for the schools to recruit from to find more D2-ready bodies. The bigger challenge is schools like Minot or Mary are all the further from those markets and those players would literally drive past a fair amount of other NSIC schools to get to the middle of ND. UJ will experience this same thing as they will adjust from recruiting a kid who would be playing in the North Star Conference in the NAIA..to a NSIC kid..which is something measurably different.

Certainly the areas like CA and FL are both areas that a staff like Minot would have connections (based on where their staff has been in the past)..and they'll get some pretty athletic kids from that area and some that don't pan out or just aren't comfortable being a world away from CA/FL. But yes, keeping guys around (in the day of the portal) from those states will be all the more difficult..after they've been through a ND winter and such.

When looking at recruits in the NSIC..take a look at which clubs are getting kids who have the right frame and are from the bigger markets..or the athletic marks and have played against better competition....that's a good starting point. Of course there a plenty of high achieving kids from smaller markets..but look at their speed/strength/size to measure them up against others.

As a quick sample....here is a list of the top NSIC players this past year..per the All-Conference release. Most of the players are from WI and MN. There's less from IL than in the past..and a few more from NV than expected..but Minot has hit that area fairly hard in recent times. Not as much FL or CA as some might've figured. The Sioux Falls area has 10 on this list..as the level of football has gotten better over the years.

Interesting breakdown though.

Witt. I think one of the things you hit on is the different player being recruited D2 vs NAIA -- and often time that is a difference in academics as much as football. There are different and high standards in D2 so you get different kids, overall. Lots of good kids at all levels, but there is a different vibe.

[MrMustang]

UW-LaCrosse is in the transfer portal for a new chancellor.

Anyone in the NSIC up for the job? Lol

His wife was a finalist for the SMSU President job when we hired last time.

Maybe she would have at least kept Hawaiian Night as she would have been too busy making movies to listen to the 4 busybodies on campus who complained.

[MrMustang]

2 part rant follows:

I do not disagree about building up kids in the weight room, training table, and instruction. Where it may be harder to change is the level of competition that young men and women face. You are right, football IS an entirely different beast. You may be the best 6-man, 8-man, 9-man player in the state, but the competition that you are facing may not even equal the mediocre 2A or 3A squads in the state (sorry not sure how NSIC land classifies high school ball, so I revert to Texas examples). No disrespect to 2A and 3A teams, or even 6-man, 8-man, or 9-man systems. However, it is a different caliber of animal than playing against the studs of Big School 5A or Big School 6A. That competition is likely the thing that separates the non-recruited kids from the recruited kids. I know there are exceptions to every rule, but as a general position, I believe the kids who play against the hardest competition and have success are the ones who play most frequently at the college level. And that sucks for kids who may be supremely talented, but have a geographic/population impediment.

Every offer my kid had (minus two or three) was due to a connection between one of his HS coaches and a coach on that college's staff. So add this to the list of coaching responsibilities...First, you gotta teach young people to be good adults. Second, you gotta coach your sport. Third, you have to recruit your kids year-round to ensure that they don't transfer, which means you have wasted your time with them for x number of years just for them to go somewhere else. Fourth, you have to build relationships with coaches not only in your area but nationwide just to get the scoop on high school kids. Oh, you also gotta be accountable for all the equipment, budget, other coaches, admin staff, scheduling, nutrition, and whatever else I have forgotten.

Rant concluded.

I think the long term solution can work, but I think that is much less predictable now with the transfer portal.

Frankly the portal has made it even harder for the lessers like Northern, SMSU, Moorhead, Mary, etc to not only compete, but really to sustain success. When you win, the Manaktos and Augies and UMDs come get your good kids.

and social media and the fast paced world has clearly made delayed gratification and lost thing in college sports. kids will go waste $20,000 dollars when a bunch of classes don't transfer so they can feel better about their football choice and then complain they have a bunch of loans to pay off.

[MrMustang]

I applied. I told them I have experience in corn sites- I misread that it was actually about porn sites. So much for getting that job.

LOL

[MrMustang]

Former SMSU WR Eric Lira signed with Rocky Mountain College in the NAIA.

Interesting

[MrMustang]

I didn't use "feelings" to draw up my opinions, that's the difference between us - clearly.

Gainful employment and quality of life is not a "want" by any means.

There are lots of great jobs in Marshall and the quality of life is great . 5 minutes to a great golf course that would be $15,000 a year to join in a Metro area and is $3000 here. Not for eveyone, but life is pretty good. same is true for many other places in the NSIC - except Duluth because of the America's worst weather

[MrMustang]

Wow; from a D2 program in the NSIC to a middle of the pack or lower end NAIA. That one will have you scratching your head as you try to figure out the transfer portal.
only upgrade is that you are in Billings, larger city—— but facilities, level of competition are downgrades, at least from this point of view.

I find this very interesting.