Selection for Post Season Play

[Lobo]

The NCAA SR4 regional rankings that came out this past week have 4 Lone Star Conference teams ranked ahead of CSUP, as follows: 3 (Central Washington), 4 (UT-Permian Basin), 8 (Angelo State) and & 10 (Texas A&M Kingsville).

The NCAA committee ranked only 2 teams from the RMAC in the SR4 rankings, as follows: 1 (Colorado Mines) and 2 (Western Colorado).

Why did the LSC get 4 teams while the RMAC got only 2?

Does it not make a difference that the RMAC beat the LSC in head-to-head play 5 to 3?

What about the fact that Angelo State and Kingsville scheduled only 10 instead of 11 games like all RMAC teams?

Angelo State and Kingsville have 3 losses like CSUP. Would CSUP have been ranked ahead of Angelo State and Kingsville had it not played and lost to Grand Valley, therefore having only 2 losses?

And what difference, if any, does it make that the teams CSUP lost to are ranked 1, 2 and 15 nationally according to D2Football, and 1, 2 and 13 according to the Coaches poll?

Does it make a difference that the 3 teams CSUP lost to have a combined record of 28 wins and 2 losses?

And another thing, UT-Permian Basin thumped Central Washington today, the number 1 ranked team in the LSC going into the weekend. Western Colorado beat UT-Permian Basin handily. Is the LSC overrated in the SR4 rankings?

Why did the committee place 4 teams in the SR4 regional rankings ahead of CSUP?

Apparently the aforementioned factors don’t make a difference. The NCAA formula for post selection play is clear as mud.

Going forward, HC Phil Vigil and CSUP cannot leave post season play to the discretion of the NCAA selection committee. Al Davis had it right when he said, “Just win, baby?” Oh, and maybe, just play 10 games.

[sportsvine]

You make good arguments for the LSC being overrated when compared to the RMAC.

There used to be a day, maybe 5-10 years ago when the LSC was consistently a better conference than the RMAC year in and year out. Those days are long gone. The RMAC is probably the superior of the two conferences, I would say.

[Turbonium]

Pueblo simply doesn't deserve to see the playoffs this year, they lost 3 games and that's usually a death sentence when playoffs are concerned. I don't think the answer is to not schedule tough games though as I don't think the goal is to simply make the playoffs. The goal is to win the NC. Backing your way in to get what is essentially a 7 seed to then just get smacked by Mines or Mankato shouldn't be what the program strives for. It's been several years now since Pueblo was good enough to compete with the top of SR4, easier schedules aren't the way to get back to that. They should first figure out why they have fallen so far behind Mines and Western. Solve that and the playoffs will be in the picture.

[Lobo]

Pueblo simply doesn't deserve to see the playoffs this year, they lost 3 games and that's usually a death sentence when playoffs are concerned. I don't think the answer is to not schedule tough games though as I don't think the goal is to simply make the playoffs. The goal is to win the NC. Backing your way in to get what is essentially a 7 seed to then just get smacked by Mines or Mankato shouldn't be what the program strives for. It's been several years now since Pueblo was good enough to compete with the top of SR4, easier schedules aren't the way to get back to that. They should first figure out why they have fallen so far behind Mines and Western. Solve that and the playoffs will be in the picture.

Nowhere in my post did I assert that CSUP “deserves” to make the playoffs this year. If that’s what you took away from my post, you misunderstood what I wrote. The gist is simple. The RMAC is a stronger conference than the LSC. How did the LSC get 4 teams in SR4 when the RMAC got only 2?

The LSC's top team (Central Washington) ranked #3, had only played 7 Division II games; all against LSC opponents. The RMAC won 5 out of 8 games against the LSC.

The #4 ranked team, UT-Permian Basis, lost to the only RMAC foe it played. The #8 ranked team, Angelo State, also lost to an RMAC foe it played. Only the #10 ranked team, UT A&M Kingsville, beat an RMAC opponent. Both Angelo and Kingsville played only 10 games. They won 7 games while CSUP won 8.

How could CSUP, who won 8 games and lost 3 (to opponents who had a combined record of 28 wins and 2 losses), be ranked lower than 2 LSC teams with 3 losses and 7 wins. That’s my point.

And another thing, read the last sentence of my post again. It says nothing about backing into the playoffs this year.

[Turbonium]

Nowhere in my post did I assert that CSUP “deserves” to make the playoffs this year. If that’s what you took away from my post, you misunderstood what I wrote. The gist is simple. The RMAC is a stronger conference than the LSC. How did the LSC get 4 teams in SR4 when the RMAC got only 2?

The LSC's top team (Central Washington) ranked #3, had only played 7 Division II games; all against LSC opponents. The RMAC won 5 out of 8 games against the LSC.

The #4 ranked team, UT-Permian Basis, lost to the only RMAC foe it played. The #8 ranked team, Angelo State, also lost to an RMAC foe it played. Only the #10 ranked team, UT A&M Kingsville, beat an RMAC opponent. Both Angelo and Kingsville played only 10 games. They won 7 games while CSUP won 8.

How could CSUP, who won 8 games and lost 3 (to opponents who had a combined record of 28 wins and 2 losses), be ranked lower than 2 LSC teams with 3 losses and 7 wins. That’s my point.

And another thing, read the last sentence of my post again. It says nothing about backing into the playoffs this year.

Agreed with the RMAC being stronger and just about everything you said, my response was not in disagreement with your points just adding my own thoughts in addition to yours. Apologies for making it seem otherwise in my response. I thought with the last 2 weeks of playing teams with better records than the 2 3 loss LSC teams that Pueblo would at least jump those teams, would still be out of the playoffs, but that didn't happen for whatever reason.

I've always felt if a team took care of business then they don't need to worry about the fact that the NCAA couldn't care any less about having a proper D2 playoff by choosing the best teams no matter the location. Pueblo just needs to right the ship (getting back to dominating the LOS mostly) and the RMAC should be a very very good conference. Looks like they will only lose about 5 key guys to graduation, I assume they'll be looking for a transfer QB again but if they can find that they'll be in good shape.

Always good to see you post here. Here's to hoping the RMAC representatives can win some games the next few weeks.

[Buff90]

I think we’ve all heard this LOS crap and Pueblo is on a downward spiral lol. But they are still a better team than the lsc top

[Turbonium]

I think we’ve all heard this LOS crap and Pueblo is on a downward spiral lol. But they are still a better team than the lsc top

I don't think they're in a downward spiral, if they can find a QB they're going to be very good next year as they do not lose very much on either side of the ball. I'm not sure they will compete for SR4, but should improve from getting dominated by Western and Mines.

The games they struggled in were games they couldn't consistently run the ball or stop the run. They were very young on the OL so should see a vast improvement there simply having guys getting bigger, stronger, and more explosive in the Leomitti Center in the off-season.

I'm not sure they're better than UTPB (who was much more competitive against Western) but unfortunately we won't get to find out thanks to that GV 2OT loss. SR4 playoffs will be really interesting this year to see if anyone can at all hang with Mines.

[Buff90]

Cwu with 3 losses not the same ballpark as pueblos losses. And the weak lsc gets in? SMH

[Lobo]

Cwu with 3 losses not the same ballpark as pueblos losses. And the weak lsc gets in? SMH

I don’t think most folks have a problem with Central Washington’s selection to post season play even though CWU lost to NAIA opponent, Montana Tech, and FCS opponent, Weber State. No problem with the loss to UT-Permian Basin either. UTPB is a solid DII team.

Some however might have a problem with Central Washington’s paltry number of wins -- 7 in total. What’s more, the wins came against teams from a conference that looks like a weak imitation of its former self. . . . but, who knows, maybe the LSC just had a down year this past season.

[Goods]

Why is the LSC weak? I'm not calling it better than MIAA or GLIAC, but c'mon. Calling a league weak is impossible to prove or disprove. Are the odds stacked against CWU this weekend? Hell yes. Western Colorado looks pretty dang good. That doesn't indicate the league is weak.

[Lobo]

A few years back, LSC posters vociferously argued that the RMAC was a weak conference not worthy of facing vaunted LSC opponents. LSC teams such as Abilene Christian, Tarleton, Commerce, Incarnate Word, Midwestern, Angelo State, among others, routinely beat RMAC teams top to bottom. The RMAC won sporadic games here and there. Along the way some of the LSC’s former top tier teams decided to play at the FCS level.

The RMAC was so disrespected that one year one of its teams won 9 games and lost 2 but didn’t get a sniff at the playoffs.

The RMAC eventually gave its members authority to fund their programs at the NCAA DII limit. The scholarship increase has made a difference.

This past season the top 3 RMAC teams beat their LSC top tier opponents. In fact, the RMAC beat the LSC in 5 of 8 games. Many view the RMAC an average to above average conference.

If the RMAC is an average to above average conference, and the RMAC was better than the LSC in head-to-head play, what does that make the LSC?

And another thing; I didn’t say that CWU is weak. I said that CWU won all its games in a weak conference. Four of the LSC teams CWU beat would likely be RMAC bottom dwellers. One of them is a former RMAC member.

Do you think CWU would have made the playoffs had it played in the RMAC?

[Goods]

Do you think CWU would have made the playoffs had it played in the RMAC?

Yes.

[Buff90]

CWU in the RMAC would have 5 losses and missed the playoffs. My criticism with them getting in, playing only 10 games is not the fault of CWU. But if you let a 3 loss team into the playoffs, look at who they were beaten by. CSUP loses to 3 top 10 teams and one of CWU losses was to a NAIA school unless I am mistaken. But D2 has me scratching my head, you enforce punishment on a Ferris State coach and then put his team up against a conference rival in a #2 vs #3 matchup in round one?

[Lobo]

Right.

[Goods]

CWU in the RMAC would have 5 losses and missed the playoffs. My criticism with them getting in, playing only 10 games is not the fault of CWU. But if you let a 3 loss team into the playoffs, look at who they were beaten by. CSUP loses to 3 top 10 teams and one of CWU losses was to a NAIA school unless I am mistaken. But D2 has me scratching my head, you enforce punishment on a Ferris State coach and then put his team up against a conference rival in a #2 vs #3 matchup in round one?

I'll skip the remainder of this p*ssing match and move to something we can all agree on: Ferris State's coach getting penalized for something the NCAA and national media PROMOTE's when any FBS school does the same thing is ludicrous. How many times have we watched the vid's of Joey B lighting up after LSU's natty? It's replayed every year during bowl season. I'm not a cigar kind of guy, but go ahead and celebrate!