Ford Center Hosts E8 from 2019-2022

[DUPanther]

Re: Ford Center Hosts E8 from 2019-2022

And just to be clear, Watson has run a pretty good program and won a lot of games in a really good D2 conference. I think USI could definitely do worse. The problem is, they could also do better and having the 4th or 5th best coach in the league shouldn't be acceptable at a place like USI. If you put him at a place like Drury that has academic barriers to taking certain players and there's 14 other D2 schools in the state fighting for players, or a place like Parkside where there's no tradition and attendance is 300 people per game, I'm saying he struggles to average 17-18 wins per year. USI is a pretty darn good situation for winning at the D2 level - there's probably fewer drawbacks there than any school in the league except for Bellarmine.

[MrAugustana]

Re: Ford Center Hosts E8 from 2019-2022

Per 14 news the Ford Center in Evansville will be hosting the D2 E8 from 2019-2022

Great news! Sioux Falls was lovely, but the commute was a bit much, although I am looking forward to it next year

Selfishly, as a Sioux Falls resident, I'm slightly disappointed. Would've loved to see us snag it for a couple more years. Maybe we'll be able to get it back for a year or two after 2022. The local paper said the NCAA informed our Sioux Falls Sports Authority (the group that hosted this year's and next year's Elite Eights and puts together the bids, etc.) that it had nothing to do with how this year went, but that they're still testing some things and trying to figure out the best place to hold it consistently in the long-term, so it could end up back in Sioux Falls eventually.

Either way, it was fun having it here and everything I heard/read/etc. was that everyone involved had a great experience. I'm sure they do a good job in Evansville too, but in the event that my Vikes are good enough to reach the Elight Eight again in the near future, I was hoping we'd snag a few more years of it being in Sioux Falls. That would've been convenient. :)

[Knightmoves]

Re: Ford Center Hosts E8 from 2019-2022

Selfishly, as a Sioux Falls resident, I'm slightly disappointed. Would've loved to see us snag it for a couple more years. Maybe we'll be able to get it back for a year or two after 2022. The local paper said the NCAA informed our Sioux Falls Sports Authority (the group that hosted this year's and next year's Elite Eights and puts together the bids, etc.) that it had nothing to do with how this year went, but that they're still testing some things and trying to figure out the best place to hold it consistently in the long-term, so it could end up back in Sioux Falls eventually.

Either way, it was fun having it here and everything I heard/read/etc. was that everyone involved had a great experience. I'm sure they do a good job in Evansville too, but in the event that my Vikes are good enough to reach the Elight Eight again in the near future, I was hoping we'd snag a few more years of it being in Sioux Falls. That would've been convenient. :)

I did like the facility in Sioux Falls, it was ideal. The Ford Center is much too big. I will, however, give up the ideal facility for being 600 miles farther South in early March.

[KnightStalker]

Re: Ford Center Hosts E8 from 2019-2022

And just to be clear, Watson has run a pretty good program and won a lot of games in a really good D2 conference. I think USI could definitely do worse. The problem is, they could also do better and having the 4th or 5th best coach in the league shouldn't be acceptable at a place like USI. If you put him at a place like Drury that has academic barriers to taking certain players and there's 14 other D2 schools in the state fighting for players, or a place like Parkside where there's no tradition and attendance is 300 people per game, I'm saying he struggles to average 17-18 wins per year. USI is a pretty darn good situation for winning at the D2 level - there's probably fewer drawbacks there than any school in the league except for Bellarmine.

Agree with you completely except I would mention that BU is only ideal now due to the efforts of Davenport. There was the time immediately before his arrival where it was pretty bad. And going back further to the Reibel years, BU had some good teams but for the most part was middle of the pack in the GLVC. Davenport changed all that. But a coach like that is rare. Davenport, Hesser, and Reigel are the exceptions to what is mostly mediocre coaching in D2. I suppose USI should expect that kind of exceptional coach for their program. Watson is not that, but he is not the worst either. Actually, I think he is slightly above average. But as you say I think USI should have better.

[KnightStalker]

Re: Ford Center Hosts E8 from 2019-2022

I did like the facility in Sioux Falls, it was ideal. The Ford Center is much too big. I will, however, give up the ideal facility for being 600 miles farther South in early March.

Yes, the facility was very nice. I think Sioux Falls is a lovely town and it would be great if the tournament was in June. If I have to travel 800 miles again to watch the tourney in March I would prefer it be 800 miles south instead of north. Of course, I will not be complaining next year when I go back to Sioux Falls.

I can't say Evansville is ideal either but it is close. The Ford Center is much too large. The only hope is to have BU or KWC make it to the final against a program like NWMSU to have a chance to get the place more than half full.

[DUPanther]

Re: Ford Center Hosts E8 from 2019-2022

Agree with you completely except I would mention that BU is only ideal now due to the efforts of Davenport. There was the time immediately before his arrival where it was pretty bad. And going back further to the Reibel years, BU had some good teams but for the most part was middle of the pack in the GLVC. Davenport changed all that. But a coach like that is rare. Davenport, Hesser, and Reigel are the exceptions to what is mostly mediocre coaching in D2. I suppose USI should expect that kind of exceptional coach for their program. Watson is not that, but he is not the worst either. Actually, I think he is slightly above average. But as you say I think USI should have better.

I'm not talking results, I'm talking favorable external conditions. Bellarmine is in a major metropolitan area with the only other college basketball programs in town being Louisville and Spalding, neither of which are recruiting on the same level as Bellarmine. It's a basketball school in a basketball area. And there are only 2 other D2 basketball programs in the entire state, right (and one of those, KY State, sucks)?

In no way am I saying that Scotty hasn't earned his success. I'm just saying it's a better breeding ground than, say, a Northwest Missouri State in a town of 12,000 people that's 90 miles from the closest major city and has 13 other in-state D2 programs going after the same players.

[alumnifan]

Re: Ford Center Hosts E8 from 2019-2022

Is Evansville going to have another HOF tournament again in the 17-18 season at the Ford Center?

The Evansville Sports Corp is behind the move for the National Championship coming back to Evansville. It is all about them producing the highest bid for the Elite 8.

You will never see USI, BU, and KWC be in two or three different regions now with the way the National tournament is strictly alligned geographically within 8 regions in D2. The Evansville Sports Corp can only hope one of them will get to the Finals, and I think the push is on for getting one of those three in every Elite 8 to get to the Finals during that four year span.

I'm not sure when the regions became the way they are now in D2. It was done to decrease travel expenses, I'm sure.

For years the NCAA D2 tournament was seeded much like the D1 tournament and teams were seeded in regions that were not necessarily in their geographic region.

We may never see two Midwest Region teams in the National Finals again the way Evansville and KWC were in the glory years of the 1960s. Evansville was the birth place of the NCAA Small College Championship, and the only reason the NCAA Small College tournament garnered such great attendance was due to the Evansville v. KWC rivalry in the National Championship games.

So many teams have gone D1 now and the big time national tournament environments with 8,000 to 11,000 are mostly gone now because of how the NCAA changed the way teams are now placed in their specific geographic region.

I am not sure there's a magical way to increase attendance, but having it in Evansville probably makes the most sense at this point. I guess it is possible for the D2 regional tournaments to revert back to bids, and seeding teams outside of their particular geographic region. You never know?

[Knightmoves]

Re: Ford Center Hosts E8 from 2019-2022

I'm not talking results, I'm talking favorable external conditions. Bellarmine is in a major metropolitan area with the only other college basketball programs in town being Louisville and Spalding, neither of which are recruiting on the same level as Bellarmine. It's a basketball school in a basketball area. And there are only 2 other D2 basketball programs in the entire state, right (and one of those, KY State, sucks)?

In no way am I saying that Scotty hasn't earned his success. I'm just saying it's a better breeding ground than, say, a Northwest Missouri State in a town of 12,000 people that's 90 miles from the closest major city and has 13 other in-state D2 programs going after the same players.

I agree with you 100%. Davenport is a great coach and one of the reasons he is a great coach for Bellarmine is that he has effectively exploited Bellarmine's natural advantages. There is no reason that Bellarmine should have ever been as bad as it was prior to Davenports arrival. The other natural advantage of Bellarmine is that it has a good academic reputation meaning that a scholarship offer is more valuable than an offer from directional state U. This advantage is multiplied by recruiting smart basketball players, not just good athletes, who fit Davenport's system. Academic standards help recruit and maintain a good basketball team, contrary to what many people believe.

[KnightStalker]

Re: Ford Center Hosts E8 from 2019-2022

I'm not talking results, I'm talking favorable external conditions. Bellarmine is in a major metropolitan area with the only other college basketball programs in town being Louisville and Spalding, neither of which are recruiting on the same level as Bellarmine. It's a basketball school in a basketball area. And there are only 2 other D2 basketball programs in the entire state, right (and one of those, KY State, sucks)?

In no way am I saying that Scotty hasn't earned his success. I'm just saying it's a better breeding ground than, say, a Northwest Missouri State in a town of 12,000 people that's 90 miles from the closest major city and has 13 other in-state D2 programs going after the same players.

You are correct, but for the sake of keeping a decent conversation going, instead of the usual Watson-bashing drivel, I would point out that BU is not the only one in the GLVC with optimal external conditions as compared to USI. UMSL, being a state school in the second biggest market in the GLVC, has to be considered having better external conditions than USI. I would argue that Lewis, being in the largest and by far highest producer of basketball talent market in the GLVC footprint, would also have better external conditions. Rockhurst and WJ also have better external conditions being in the fourth largest market. Then there is Indy which is in the third largest market(I'm too lazy to look but has Indianapolis past St. Louis? Kansas City?) and arguably the most basketball loving state in the country. Evansville is pretty far down the line as far as markets go in the GLVC. It definitely isn't the smallest but several schools are in bigger markets. The difference in size in these markets compared to Evansville more than makes up for there being more competition in d2 schools. The large markets could easily satisfied 4 to 5 D2 schools although I am not aware of any of them having that many. Compared to Evansville (and to some extent Louisville) the top 3-4 markets in the GLVC should be able to support a lot more good D2 programs. Yet none of them have a better program than Watson-led USI (Indy and Lewis could make an argument but USI still has been better, marginally.)

I forgot my point. Does this show that Watson is underperforming or actually over-performing? If we went by external conditions, I would have to say he is over-performing or at the minimum not under-performing as much as the UMSLs of the conference. But when we throw in tradition to the mix, Watson definitely becomes an under-performer. None of the bigger market schools have much in tradition compared to USI (although this lack of tradition may show that there is a reason a big market is not necessarily a good thing for a D2 program.)

[alumnifan]

Re: Ford Center Hosts E8 from 2019-2022

St. Louis is the most dangerous city in the country to live in. If I am not mistaken it has the highest murder rate per capita in the United States.

A large city or the size of a metropolitan area has little to no bearing on how an athletic program excels on the D2 level in the NCAA. Lexington KY is not a huge city. In fact, the SEC overall is not composed of major D1 programs in many large metro areas.

[alumnifan]

Re: Ford Center Hosts E8 from 2019-2022

Any success in athletics that Bellarmine has had has little to do with them being located in Louisville.

Bellarmine's success as of late has everything to do with the Catholic model of education in conjunction with athletics.

[Trautwein]

Re: Ford Center Hosts E8 from 2019-2022

Any success in athletics that Bellarmine has had has little to do with them being located in Louisville.

Oh, puh-lease.

[schnautza]

Re: Ford Center Hosts E8 from 2019-2022

I've done a little digging because I find this subject intriguing. Here's a list of all the GLVC schools sorted in order of size of metro area (or micro area, if they aren't in a metro).

UW-Parkside - Kenosha 99,218/Chicago metro 9,472,676
Lewis - Romeoville 39,912/Chicago metro 9,472,676
Maryville - St. Louis metro 2,811,588
UMSL - St. Louis metro 2,811,588
Rockhurst - Kansas City metro 2,159,159
William Jewell - Liberty 29,149/Kansas City metro 2,159,159
UIndy - Indianapolis metro 1,756,241
Bellarmine - Louisville metro 1,269,702
McKendree - Lebanon 4,418/Illinois Metro East 702,579
Drury - Springfield MO metro 541,991
Southern Indiana - Evansville metro 314,280
Ill-Springfield - Springfield IL metro 211,752
Quincy - Quincy micropolitan 40,643
Missouri S&T - Rolla micropolitan 19,559
Truman St - Kirksville micropolitan 17,505

By these numbers, if metro area was a main factor of team quality, Truman is WAY overachieving, and USI is also doing way better than expected.

[schnautza]

Re: Ford Center Hosts E8 from 2019-2022

Here's a list of undergrad enrollment:
UMSL - 13,569
Southern Indiana - 8130
Missouri S&T - 6841
Truman St - 6039
Ill-Springfield - 5431
UW-Parkside - 4700
Lewis - 4613
UIndy - 4200
Maryville - 2795
Bellarmine - 2651
McKendree - 2342
Rockhurst - 2130
Drury - 1560
William Jewell - 1100
Quincy - 1044

[WestSideMafia]

Re: Ford Center Hosts E8 from 2019-2022

Most of our basketball players are from outside of this area, minus the kids from the really good Reitz team, and couldn't care less about the town...they come here to ball and leave.

You are correct, but for the sake of keeping a decent conversation going, instead of the usual Watson-bashing drivel, I would point out that BU is not the only one in the GLVC with optimal external conditions as compared to USI. UMSL, being a state school in the second biggest market in the GLVC, has to be considered having better external conditions than USI. I would argue that Lewis, being in the largest and by far highest producer of basketball talent market in the GLVC footprint, would also have better external conditions. Rockhurst and WJ also have better external conditions being in the fourth largest market. Then there is Indy which is in the third largest market(I'm too lazy to look but has Indianapolis past St. Louis? Kansas City?) and arguably the most basketball loving state in the country. Evansville is pretty far down the line as far as markets go in the GLVC. It definitely isn't the smallest but several schools are in bigger markets. The difference in size in these markets compared to Evansville more than makes up for there being more competition in d2 schools. The large markets could easily satisfied 4 to 5 D2 schools although I am not aware of any of them having that many. Compared to Evansville (and to some extent Louisville) the top 3-4 markets in the GLVC should be able to support a lot more good D2 programs. Yet none of them have a better program than Watson-led USI (Indy and Lewis could make an argument but USI still has been better, marginally.)

I forgot my point. Does this show that Watson is underperforming or actually over-performing? If we went by external conditions, I would have to say he is over-performing or at the minimum not under-performing as much as the UMSLs of the conference. But when we throw in tradition to the mix, Watson definitely becomes an under-performer. None of the bigger market schools have much in tradition compared to USI (although this lack of tradition may show that there is a reason a big market is not necessarily a good thing for a D2 program.)