Benedictine to GLVC

[DUPanther]

Re: Benedictine to GLVC

It is when you are sinking $60 million dollars into a new arena and attendance across the entire league is not getting or going to get any better. The time has come for USI to make the plunge. Drury is actually another good example. Terrific basketball facility but not many show to games. DJ is right in that adding a Benedictine does nothing but hurt attendance. No one is going to care about coming to see them play regardless of how good we or they are.

So did a little digging over past several years. The year USI has what was probably the best team in the country with Jamar Smith and Co. we had a respectable 1,780 fans per game. But we also played Northern Kentucky and KWC that year. Fast forward to last year where we 25-5, we averaged 1,466. This year we are at 1,050 so far. Drury is at 1,316.

Digging in deeper into last year as reference we averaged 2,388 fans at the Bellarmine and Drury home games. That is a sizeable difference and shows the typical fan is interested in the quality of competition. If the new gym is going to seat 4,600+ fans it makes absolutely zero sense to stay in this league.

KWC and USI played in front of 7,000 in Roberts Stadium, too. Today they'd have real trouble drawing 2,500. Those days are gone and they ain't coming back.

Who are you going to get to come into the GLVC that's going to replicate KWC or NKU in their D2 glory days? No one - it's not happening. If USI is a legit national championship contender people will come, like they used to. If they aren't, they won't. It's simple as that. Doesn't matter what league you're in. Your fan interest is down a lot more because Watson has driven off a portion of them, not because no one is interested in seeing USI play Maryville. Drury's attendance has been down this year because we played 1 more NAIA than usual and a good portion of our home schedule so far has been during Thanksgiving and Christmas break when there are no students. We were 12th in the country in D2 attendance last year...to say that "not many show" isn't a true statement.

I'll agree with you, it makes zero sense for USI to have a 4,600 seat arena. The atmosphere will be junk. And that'd be true if you were D1 with Watson at the helm too.

Personally, I'd love to see both Missouri Southern and SBU come into the league. Both are traditional rivalry games for Drury and both would bring several hundred visiting fans to Springfield for that game. Those would easily be 2,200+ attendance games for us.

[bkingbroker]

Re: Benedictine to GLVC

Yes, I think the better days of D II are long gone. I am a die hard D II guy and would have never thought say 10 years ago I would be advocating for a move to D I. But I think that time has come. Now of course you bring up another point that is important in this decision and that is the leadership. The leadership must change if the University has any hope of being successful in D I. That is a 100% must happen. Benedictine might make sense as a geographical replacement for Parkside. But it doesn't strengthen the league that has already lost way too many good participants.

KWC and USI played in front of 7,000 in Roberts Stadium, too. Today they'd have real trouble drawing 2,500. Those days are gone and they ain't coming back.

Who are you going to get to come into the GLVC that's going to replicate KWC or NKU in their D2 glory days? No one - it's not happening. If USI is a legit national championship contender people will come, like they used to. If they aren't, they won't. It's simple as that. Doesn't matter what league you're in. Your fan interest is down a lot more because Watson has driven off a portion of them, not because no one is interested in seeing USI play Maryville. Drury's attendance has been down this year because we played 1 more NAIA than usual and a good portion of our home schedule so far has been during Thanksgiving and Christmas break when there are no students. We were 12th in the country in D2 attendance last year...to say that "not many show" isn't a true statement.

I'll agree with you, it makes zero sense for USI to have a 4,600 seat arena. The atmosphere will be junk. And that'd be true if you were D1 with Watson at the helm too.

Personally, I'd love to see both Missouri Southern and SBU come into the league. Both are traditional rivalry games for Drury and both would bring several hundred visiting fans to Springfield for that game. Those would easily be 2,200+ attendance games for us.

[DUPanther]

Re: Benedictine to GLVC

Yes, I think the better days of D II are long gone. I am a die hard D II guy and would have never thought say 10 years ago I would be advocating for a move to D I. But I think that time has come. Now of course you bring up another point that is important in this decision and that is the leadership. The leadership must change if the University has any hope of being successful in D I. That is a 100% must happen. Benedictine might make sense as a geographical replacement for Parkside. But it doesn't strengthen the league that has already lost way too many good participants.

I'm definitely not a Naumovich guy, and you're right in that the league has taken some teams that end up in the bottom half more often than not. But moving forward today, who would you add? It wasn't the GLVC that jettisoned NKU, SIUE, KWC. Those schools left. St. Joe's closed their doors. Drury and Truman have definitely strengthened the conference. Rockhurst has been to the NCAA tourney a few times since they've been in the league. UIS and S&T have been duds (S&T had some really good teams in the mid 90's, but haven't been really good since). Maryville has had a few decent teams, especially this year. Jewell has been weak until this year.

When teams like NKU leave you're not going to replace them with someone equivalent - that team in D2, within the geographic footprint of the conference, who isn't already in a decent conference, doesn't exist. The reason the conference has moved westward is because that's where the D2 schools are. There are only 3 D2 schools in all of Kentucky and I think 3 more in Indiana (and 1 of those is Purdue Northwest who just recently went D2). There's about 15 in Missouri alone.

[Knightmoves]

Re: Benedictine to GLVC

a few things:
(1) Remember that men's basketball is not the primary consideration in determing the league structure. It's what we care about, but just a small fraction of the consideration for AD's.
(2) Attendance is significantly down (as is overall interest) for D1 as well. Even Kentucky has had a dip in attendance. Regular season games suffer from extreme over exposure, but there is no putting that genie back in the bottle.
(3) Agree about USI's new arena. There clearly is an intent to go D1. Frankly it makes sense for USI to go D1, much like it did for NKU. With the right coach, USI could probably jump over about 50% of D1 men's basketball teams in a few years.
(4) I think the real way to fix the problems in D2 is for the NCAA to stop allowing so many schools to go D1 and even think about kicking out a bunch of the current bottom feeders. It would be good for D1 and D2.

[WestSideMafia]

[DJ Silky Panties]

Re: Benedictine to GLVC

KWC and USI played in front of 7,000 in Roberts Stadium, too. Today they'd have real trouble drawing 2,500. Those days are gone and they ain't coming back.

Who are you going to get to come into the GLVC that's going to replicate KWC or NKU in their D2 glory days? No one - it's not happening. If USI is a legit national championship contender people will come, like they used to. If they aren't, they won't. It's simple as that. Doesn't matter what league you're in. Your fan interest is down a lot more because Watson has driven off a portion of them, not because no one is interested in seeing USI play Maryville. Drury's attendance has been down this year because we played 1 more NAIA than usual and a good portion of our home schedule so far has been during Thanksgiving and Christmas break when there are no students. We were 12th in the country in D2 attendance last year...to say that "not many show" isn't a true statement.

I'll agree with you, it makes zero sense for USI to have a 4,600 seat arena. The atmosphere will be junk. And that'd be true if you were D1 with Watson at the helm too.

Personally, I'd love to see both Missouri Southern and SBU come into the league. Both are traditional rivalry games for Drury and both would bring several hundred visiting fans to Springfield for that game. Those would easily be 2,200+ attendance games for us.

[DUPanther]

Re: Benedictine to GLVC

a few things:
(1) Remember that men's basketball is not the primary consideration in determing the league structure. It's what we care about, but just a small fraction of the consideration for AD's.
(2) Attendance is significantly down (as is overall interest) for D1 as well. Even Kentucky has had a dip in attendance. Regular season games suffer from extreme over exposure, but there is no putting that genie back in the bottle.
(3) Agree about USI's new arena. There clearly is an intent to go D1. Frankly it makes sense for USI to go D1, much like it did for NKU. With the right coach, USI could probably jump over about 50% of D1 men's basketball teams in a few years.
(4) I think the real way to fix the problems in D2 is for the NCAA to stop allowing so many schools to go D1 and even think about kicking out a bunch of the current bottom feeders. It would be good for D1 and D2.

And if they did jump 50% of D1 men's basketball teams (which would be about the best they could hope for), they'd still be the 150th best D1 team in the country and still have zero shot at anything but winning their conference tournament and getting an auto-bid.

[DJ Silky Panties]

Re: Benedictine to GLVC

And if they did jump 50% of D1 men's basketball teams (which would be about the best they could hope for), they'd still be the 150th best D1 team in the country and still have zero shot at anything but winning their conference tournament and getting an auto-bid.

[DUPanther]

Re: Benedictine to GLVC

Much more likely to end up like Evansville....and that school had significantly more tradition and success in D2 than USI.

[bkingbroker]

Re: Benedictine to GLVC

But with the logic of title or bust as the litmus test then only about 20 teams should be D I. What needs to happen is the power conferences break away from the NCAA. Then you have a leveling of the playing field for the rest of the D I teams.

Much more likely to end up like Evansville....and that school had significantly more tradition and success in D2 than USI.

[bkingbroker]

Re: Benedictine to GLVC

Even with the right leadership the premise stated is still true. Winning the auto bid becomes the only obtainable goal. But that is true now for every other conference outside of the power conferences. Look none other than the Missouri Valley. You had Tulsa, Creighton, Wichita State...all bolted for bigger conferences. Now what is left of the Valley the right coach in place could win that league starting from scratch within a few years. For crying out loud Drake is leading the league and I would bet a decent amount of money that they wouldn't win the GLVC.

But I completely agree with you in that we don't have the right leadership currently in place. The AD is too soft and the head coach too content. Building from scratch is not easy as all one needs to do is look at SIUE. They had made bad hire after bad hire and continue to be a laughing stock in hoops. If the top of the house isn't going to get aggressive then the best pay would be to stand pat and play in a 3/4 empty but flashy stadium against Benedictine.

[DJ Silky Panties]

Re: Benedictine to GLVC

Oakland City makes more sense. Already D2 and have near max scholarships
Was mentioned Benedict did well one yr in d3. Old man won a lot in naia and d3. Not working so well in D2 or vs D2.

[BellarmineGrad]

Re: Benedictine to GLVC

Benedictine sandwich is a very "meh" move, but, as many others have pointed out, who are you going to get in this era? I do think Southwest Baptist and Lindenwood (the "real" one, not Belleville) would've been more interesting additions.

[bkingbroker]

Re: Benedictine to GLVC

Lindenwood would be at the top of my wish list. Already DII and they have fantastic facilities.

Benedictine sandwich is a very "meh" move, but, as many others have pointed out, who are you going to get in this era? I do think Southwest Baptist and Lindenwood (the "real" one, not Belleville) would've been more interesting additions.

[DJ Silky Panties]

Re: Benedictine to GLVC

Lindenwood would be at the top of my wish list. Already DII and they have fantastic facilities.

Lindenwood. The real one is fully funded too.
But why did any one have to be added? Uindy going gmac or gliac.